[Sterix]

Fellow critiquers (and critiqued)... I'm relatively new to the forum but i'm finding certain aspects a little... I'm not actually sure what the adjective is.

My problem lies in when it comes to posting on songs that... okay, let's admit it: I don't really like. Mostly. Actually, even ones I do (but I feel more conflicted with those I don't)

The question is really one of "constructive criticism". How do you deal with critiquing a song someone has obviously put their heart and soul (and not an incopious amount of sweat probably) into?

As someone who has been writing songs (lyrics at least) for a LONG TIME I have my own way of writing and my own, shall we say?, standards. I find there are songs with lyrics - I suppose I just don't get, and/or would have written differently, and - more importantly to this topic - have the inclination to offer up what I would have written differently (okay, part of me itches occasionally to offer up alternative lyrics - ones that make more sens to me personally).

When you post a song (especially in the "unfinished" area) are you really looking for me (or someone else) to offer up changes to your lyrics? Are you okay with someone telling you they think your lyrics need a lot of work? I know, personally, how attached I am to my own lyrics and how...erm, "difficult" I would find someone else "poking their noses in".

[Boydie]

I would say the "unfinished" WIP section is the place to suggest alternative lyrics - as long as you express it as "your opinion" then you can't go too far wrong - e.g. "In the first verse I would personally change the line xyz to abc because I think..."

This is very different from telling someone they are "wrong"

Not liking something is also fine as along as you recognise it is your opinion - it can be constructive to explain why you don't like something - and suggest what would make you like it more - but always put it across as your own opinion

It is then for the writer to take lots of different opinions in to consideration to either tweak the song, ignore the opinions and/or take the opinions in to account when writing their next song

[RealKevM]

When I post my songs I know i'm looking for honest critique. I don't always agree with the responses but more often than not I can take away some helpful advice.

When it comes to critiquing others work i'm far too polite to be totally honest, but if I really like a song I let the writer know.

[tone]

The more honest the critique, the better all round in my opinion. I say that while recognising how extremely difficult that can feel from both ends of the transaction.

Boydie gives sound advice as usual.

I think there are broadly two types of posters though. Those who post mainly because they're keen to get better at writing songs, and are looking to gauge how well their songs are connecting. These people will usually thank you for honesty. Then there are those who are just wanting to share their music and be told it's good. Sometimes honesty causes hurt feelings here.

But hurt feelings are part of life. Whichever end of the spectrum you post from, you stand to benefit. You simply have to be willing to recognise it.

So to answer your question: I like my criticism brutal, even when it hurts. I might sulk for a while, but I know future me will probably thank you for it, even if I decide not to act on it.

Also, really honest reviewers have more credibility when they say something good. You know you're not simply on the receiving end of good etiquette or tongue-biting.

Of course, the caveat is: be mindful of the artistic boundary. Pay attention when posters ask what kind of feedback they're looking for, and critique accordingly. Posters - this is your responsibility! If you don't say what you're looking for, don't complain when someone crosses a line you never drew.

[CaliaMoko]

I also really, really like brutally honest feedback. To be clear, that does not mean I want nasty, derogatory remarks. I want clearly constructive criticism. I love stuff I can get my teeth into, that I can use to go rip into my song with. Brutal (but not mean) feedback never hurts my feelings. I usually get excited, thinking, "Oh, now I have an idea what's going wrong, and now I know how to go about working on this!"

I also have a tendency not to be as brutal as I hope others are with me. Not everyone is like me, so I try to be cautious. I will be as honest as I can bring myself to be, though, while making what I say (if it is negative) as supportive as possible, by providing ideas for ways to fix what is, in my opinion, wrong. And I always try to make it clear I'm speaking from my own opinions and the writer should disregard if s/he doesn't agree with me. From time to time I mention my thick skin. It wasn't always so. I think it may have thickened with age.

[Johnnyuk]

I would say the "unfinished" WIP section is the place to suggest alternative lyrics - as long as you express it as "your opinion" then you can't go too far wrong - e.g. "In the first verse I would personally change the line xyz to abc because I think..."

This is very different from telling someone they are "wrong"

Not liking something is also fine as along as you recognise it is your opinion - it can be constructive to explain why you don't like something - and suggest what would make you like it more - but always put it across as your own opinion

It is then for the writer to take lots of different opinions in to consideration to either tweak the song, ignore the opinions and/or take the opinions in to account when writing their next song

Hi,
Yes i agree with Boydie on this one.
You should also ask yourself if you are gonna be ok with getting feedback.
If you feel that your gonna be ok with it then go ahead. If not wait until you are ok to do that.
Remember whenever anyone makes suggestions on your demo your the one who decides what advice you take onboard and what advice you don't.
And always try to remember that it isn't a personal attack on you or your song and you'll be fine.

Johnny

[Katie Wilson]

When I first joined the forum I would be polite and listen to the song and say all the right things in the right places - very good , nice song blah blah blah even if it didn't do a lot for me .

But I realised that this isn't doing anyone any good and is just wasting every ones time- I think like some that I didn't wasn't to get involved in some on line spat by offending someone but now I try to be as honest as I can - sometimes I can see the quality but might say it simply isn't my thing - or even I don't like it there is usually something positive to say - I think that because I'm not a musician I felt on a lower step than anyone else , when offering feedback i would never say that's rubbish or anything like that .
Now I realise that I might make a suggestion that the songwriter hadn't originally thought of and my feedback will help improve the song , there are ways in offering criticsim which doesn't have to be nasty

[Sterix]

Thanks for the advice. I tend to either pull my punches or smack 'em into the middle of next week... I find it hard a lot of the time to find that happy medium.

For myself, I should point out, I really am easy with criticism of my lyrics. I can take it, however it's dished out! And whether people think my lyrics are great or terrible I'd rather have something to go on than nothing at all.

On the critiquing side, I've definitely held back, even on the songs I've loved (and when I've said I've liked or even loved a song here so far I'm not just sticking my tongue up the artist's backside - I actually mean it). As someone who doesn't really play an instrument (I played recorder in school to some extent but my synthesizer may as well be a quantum microscope for all I can get a tune out of it) I find it hard to comment on the playing side.

Basically: I can't do it so how can I tell someone else something sounds wrong? Partly, I suppose, it's finding the right words - and I just don't have that vocabulary (and my ear for music is nowhere near as finely tuned as most of you guys/gals, which doesn't help).

Hopefully, as I get to know people here better, I'll feel more relaxed in what I can say and try to give more meaningful and detailed critiques.

[Cawproductions]

Hi all,

Heres my two penneth,

Sometimes peoples responses can be a little harsh. BUT, By uploading your track and saying, heres my new track, you gotta take onboard whats coming. Its like art, Not everyone's cup of tea, but to the person that created it, Its how they wanted the song to sound.

For me if someone says you song is S**t, OK cool you don't like it. Move on...
I would have preferred to hear why they think its S**t...that's constructive. As we get in this forum.

If we all liked the same kind of music we would be like little clones walking around. Thats the beauty of it..

Happy writing and Playing everyone.

[cowparsleyman]

Whato music lovers

@Boydie -  is again spot on.

To me it's very simple...If you put a song up here, then there must be a reason why you did, I guess one must be prepared for both positive and negative criticism, but there is no place here for criticism that does not lead to action. To say 'I don't like it' doesn't bring much to the Artist, it just tells them about your taste in music. If you say I don't like but stick a HPF on the LVox as it's clashing with the Bass guitar that's different, the Artist can take something away from it.

My critiques of other's work are my honest opinion, nothing more, I really don't mind it they use my advice, I also try and explain why it might be better.

I always try to keep the tone light, as a song will take a long time to write, record and produce, so the potential for disappointment is high before you even start.... so you post it.. Tadaaaa

First response is It's rubbish, Second is the best thing ever. These don't help me at all, Third one the verb is too much on the Drums - Now THAT's useful, I go back listen to it, nope I'm OK with how it is, I also spot that the LVox might benefit from a slightly distorted valve pre-amp, so I re record it.

Sometimes I hear a song and I can sense there is a lot of emotional investment in it, in the preamble for example, but it sounds un-produced, Is it intended to be like that, or does the Artist not know anything about production?

many folk here are not looking to be globally famous Artists, but some might have that end goal, they might find it very hard indeed to be face to face with a A&R manager, or a label that wants to sculpt the sound differently as they already have a n artist who sounds like you that they want to push...

Hope this helps

cpm

[forth_loft]

I don't know but I find it pretty hard to say that I don't really like a song that has been posted and if I say it has some work to be done on it I will feel bad because you never know how much a song means to someone and how hard they worked to create it. All and all its a tricky situation if you ask me.

[Cawproductions]

Guys,

I always feel uneasy giving production advice, firstly I am not a pro so I don't have the credentials to do this.
Secondly, A mix is a very personal thing. Yeh we are trying to get that Pro sound but sonically, its how you want it to sound.

If someone says too much verb on the vocal, The artist may want it to sound that way..if you know what I mean.

This forum has a wide range of styles, and personal taste will always be a factor.

Just my opinion of course...

Cheers

[adamfarr]

Maybe a bit relevant. Respect for the intent and honesty.

[Martinswede]

At times I rely a bit, and I know it's the opposite of doing the good thing, on other forum members to be a bit more articulate in their reviewing of a song. If I like a song I sometime just write that I like it, sometimes I listen a few times and try to figure out why.

My impression of a song is so colored by how I feel at the moment that half of the time I'm an awful quotejudge of music. My best critique is at moments nothing.

[philbee]

Being a new kid on this block, I've recently been thinking about a way to comment that might be of use to the writer.
The first principle that struck me is that it's not my song and therefore avoid responding as if I was writing it.
Accept the song and its motivation as it is, and simply comment objectively on how I think THEIR song might be made better.