[Johnnyuk]

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[Wicked Deeds]

I'm going to sit on the fence here Johnny.  I can see why you would want a song to be unambiguous but I also love some of the more cryptic song lyrics that don't reveal their secrets Immediately.  I love that I'm required to do a little work, use my imagination and attach my own meaning or simply enjoy words and phrases that the writer has used.

Wicked

[tone]

I'm with Paul on this one Johnny. I would consider my windows to be on the OCD end of the clean spectrum; it's just that the glass is frosted.

I'm not sure my songs will be your cup of tea - despite never having the urge to explain them to anyone. They're not designed to be 'explained'.

[Sterix]

I think you're mostly right, but sometime's a little backdrop can help put the lyrics in perspective (especially where those lyrics border on the surrealistic or just plain out there!).

But you shouldn't need to go into detail and explain every single line (again, surrealistic/out there lyrics spring to mind).

I listen to a lot of music where I don't understand the lyrics (sometimes because they're in another language and sometimes because I listen to a lot of European symphonic power metal where the lyrics are poetically-leaning and often English-as-a-second-language derived on top). It doesn't deride from the pleasure of listening to them (just from my attempts to sing along!). The point here is, I don't care that I don't fully understand the lyrics. You really don't need to.

If I'm posting in the lyrics section, and I'm posting something that's not very self-explanatory, I'd offer something up as to the feeling behind the lyrics (they may be clear to me but others might be like "what the hell has he been smoking?!").

Hope that makes sense. I'm getting pretty drunk right now!

[PaulyX]

I've also got a very different point of view to you on this one Johnny.
I love lyrics that force you to think, are ambiguous, or reveal some of their meaning/beauty on their 3rd or 4th listen.
To me lyrics that are immediately obvious can fade quickly or be pretty boring.
Probably why I'm never gonna have commercially successful music!

[pompeyjazz]

I agree with the majority here. For me, lyrics are vitality important but they should not be too obvious unless that's you're intention. Part of the wonderful experience of listening to songs is interpreting the lyrics and going on your own personal journey. Also there have been many top hit songs where  the lyrics are absolutely nonsensical but they work with the vibe. Check out "Blinded by the light" by Manfredd Mans Earth band and more famously McArthus Park. Now you tell me what that's all about   

[Johnnyuk]

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[Sterix]

One final thought...
When songs are posted online for feedback many come with an introduction explaining what this songs message is.
This should never be the case. It is the songs lyrics job to tell you it's message. You shouldn't have to explain what these lyrics mean to anyone, the lyrics if written well will do that job for you.
Johnny

I'd have to disagree with you here, at least in some cases. If you're posting lyrics looking for feedback and the song isn't "obvious" in its connotations, an explanation can help. Even for more "obvious" lyrics people can misunderstand the feelings/intentions of the songwriter and then their help may be misdirected.

With regards to "intentions", an example: You may have written lyrics where you intended it to convey one thing but it's gone a different way you don't like or don't want. You ask for people's help then it's vital to provide them with as much information as possible to help them understand what help you're actually looking for.

So I wouldn't say it should "never be the case" - there are "never" any absolutes in the songwriting world.

[CaliaMoko]

"Never is like always, Blue, there are no such things." Linda Crystal, character from High Chaparral. When playing live, there's nothing wrong with introducing a song with a little back story--why you wrote it, what it's about, who it's for--whatever you want to say about it. And here on the forum, when you're looking for feedback, it might be critical to explain the song a bit. Or not. Depends.

[Martinswede]

Hi Johnnyuk!

I don't think songs have that much of a meaning or a message in themselves. It's more about expressing something that gives the listener associations to emotions, memories, imagination and stuff.

A song that has some propaganda-like declaration, or maybe subliminal message, might still make you think of a person the songwriter never met.

But I agree with you too. Explaining a song is like explaining a joke.

Martin

[Johnnyuk]

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[Johnnyuk]

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[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

'The reality for the average listener is they REALLY want to get what your songs message is all about.'

I don't think this is true....for a lot of people. They don't give a damn. They like the music or the beat...or the guitar riff or whatever...and maybe a couple of hook lines or phrases that they pick up on.

I expect most people don't know or care what the lyrics are to Don't Fear The Reaper, for example...they like that guitar riff and maybe know a few words apart from the title line....come on baby...40,000 something or other....baby take my hand...

I know that's only one song but.....

[adamfarr]

I kind of agree - listeners should never have to Google anything about your song; and if there’s something essential for understanding then it needs to be there (or at least sufficient clues). On the other hand if you want to leave some ambiguity (did the lost love walk out or die they die?!) that seems totally valid.


But also the Viscount is right - sometimes words are there just because they sound good and are fun to sing!

[Skub]

Hi,
Every ones loves crystal clear windows. When you look through them everything is sharper, more vibrant in color and crystal clear.
Your lyrics should be exactly the same.
Sharp, vibrant in color and crystal clear!

You should NEVER have to explain what your song is all about before people review your song.
That job belongs to your songs lyrics!
If your lyrics are crystal clear then you have no reason to explain your song to ANYONE before we the listener click on it.
The listener should get it in one. If they don't then re write and re write it until they do.

Johnny

I fundamentally disagree with everything you have written in this post. I think you need to take a step back and really have a look at what you have just written.

I am the Walrus. What was that about? Furthermore,does it matter?

The Jean Genie. Ditto.

First We Take Manhattan.

Any Tom Waits song.

Any Grateful Dead song.

Most modern pop songs.

Here are the lyrics from a song currently in 'finished songs'. Are you telling us all this is rubbish because it's not literal?

   ___Nobody Wants To Work That Hard___

it'll take a while before it gets into my blood
  I'll bide my time until it's written in stone
 run with the devil like y'know that y'should
   and I'll find a way out o' here on my own

  describe one's colours to the willingly blind
   reluctantly shines my one n' only star
too many lovers with whom to invest my time
  when nobody ever wants to work that hard

      nobody ever really wants to work
         nobody ever really wants to work
      nobody ever wants to work that hard
    You want to shut down before making a start
          nobody ever wants to work that hard
      nobody ever wants to work that hard

    after crying salty tears I blow my nose
 I've been kicking up the leaves in Paisley Park
they arrested me with their dos and their don'ts
  this time, "looking for relief long after dark"

          nobody ever really wants to work
         nobody ever really wants to work
      nobody ever wants to work that hard
         there's a carpet of leaves out in the yard
          nobody ever wants to work that hard
          nobody ever wants to work that hard
      nobody ever wants to work that hard