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Songwriting course

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Mrs.Tobi

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« on: February 24, 2018, 08:44:36 PM »
Hello, Sonwriters

I would like your opinion on something:

1) What do you think about taking an online course on Songwriting?

2) How would you choose the course?

3) Would you go for the reputation of the music institution (like Berklee)?

4) Has anyone ever took one?

5) if yes, how was the experience? Would you recommend? Would you ever do another one?

6) has  anyone taken an online course with Berklee? They have a good reputation but they are expensive. Was it wirth the money?

7) Are there any other online songwriting courses wich you recommend?

Thanx a lot

Johnnyuk

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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2018, 08:47:28 PM »
Hi,
I would advise checking out all the free songwriters on youtube. Costs nothing and they give great advice.
Johnny :)

Boydie

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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2018, 09:14:59 PM »
I would suggest being 100% clear on what you/your husband wants from any type of course

Whether a songwriting course is any value is such a tricky question

If we compare it with painting for a minute...

A painting course will help you become a better painter but there is a big difference between paining a landscape, portrait, cartoon etc. etc.

So it is with songwriting - eg - there are lots of techniques you can learn about lyric writing (show don't tell, metaphors, similies, rhyming schemes etc.) but there are so many genres of music that the lyrical approach to folk and Country is going to be different than commercial pop (although I accept there are sume rudimentary similarities but I think you will understand my point)

Much depends on what type of songs you/your husband wants to write - if you could give some examples perhaps we can point you in the right direction

Where do you live - UK? North/South - US? - Europe?

Berkelee is VERY expensive and there are lots of cheaper alternatives - including free YouTube vids if you know what you are looking for and what you want

There are also a gazillion books of varying quality on different aspects (some better than others) so if you can give a little more info on the genre/style we can make some recommendations
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

pompeyjazz

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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2018, 11:44:43 PM »
I agree with what Boydie has to say but also if you stick around on this forum and panticipate you're going to get loads of help and support  :)

Mrs.Tobi

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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2018, 06:41:45 PM »
Hi, @Boydie. Thanx for your answer. I will answer below the topics


I would suggest being 100% clear on what you/your husband wants from any type of course

I think improvement. That was my idea.


Whether a songwriting course is any value is such a tricky question

If we compare it with painting for a minute...

A painting course will help you become a better painter but there is a big difference between paining a landscape, portrait, cartoon etc. etc.

So it is with songwriting - eg - there are lots of techniques you can learn about lyric writing (show don't tell, metaphors, similies, rhyming schemes etc.) but there are so many genres of music that the lyrical approach to folk and Country is going to be different than commercial pop (although I accept there are sume rudimentary similarities but I think you will understand my point)

Much depends on what type of songs you/your husband wants to write - if you could give some examples perhaps we can point you in the right direction

Ideally commercial ones but definitely we won’t do “the homework”. You used the expression “write to himself”, so i’d say that. What would you suggest for songwriters who write to themselves? He writes pop, love songs, ballad, contemporary, soul/r&b, upbeat, soft rock, upllifting, country, romantic songs


Where do you live - UK? North/South - US? - Europe?

London


Berkelee is VERY expensive and there are lots of cheaper alternatives - including free YouTube vids if you know what you are looking for and what you want

Do you think people can get good stuff out there and no need for Berkelees?


There are also a gazillion books of varying quality on different aspects (some better than others) so if you can give a little more info on the genre/style we can make some recommendations

Pop,  ballads, contemporary, soul/r&b, upbeat, soft rock, country, romantic


Thank you very much
Best regards
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 11:48:10 AM by Mrs.Tobi »

Mrs.Tobi

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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2018, 06:42:36 PM »
Nice tip. Thanx a lot

Hi,
I would advise checking out all the free songwriters on youtube. Costs nothing and they give great advice.
Johnny :)

Mrs.Tobi

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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2018, 06:43:30 PM »
Thanx, Pompeyjazz!

I agree with what Boydie has to say but also if you stick around on this forum and panticipate you're going to get loads of help and support  :)

Boydie

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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2018, 05:43:48 PM »
Quote
Ideally commercial ones but definitely we won’t do “the homework”. You used the expression “write to himself”, so i’d say that. What would you suggest for songwriters who write to themselves? He writes pop, love songs, ballad, contemporary, soul/r&b, upbeat, soft rock, upllifting, country, romantic songs

This is going to sound harsh but my suggestion for people who want to write songs "for themselves" should have zero expectation that the songs will be commercially viable - could it happen?, yes - is it likely?, No

If he wants to write songs for himself to release his own album - or for his own posterity - then that is fine

If he wants to improve his chances of getting a song picked up by a publisher it really needs to tick the "guaranteed hit" box

Publishers are not looking for "album tracks" - the artist (or a friend of the artist, producer, manager etc. can supply these from within the camp - which is why networking is so important so that your songs could be considered in this process)

BUT - for an unknown artist to land a proper "cut" (ie have a song placed with a publisher and then picked up and released by an artist) the song needs to sound like a guaranteed hit - which means writing in a certain (modern/commercial) way so that it sounds like what is being played on the radio RIGHT NOW (or ideally what will be played on the radio in 3 months time!)

If you are not willing to conform to writing in this way then commercial songwriting is simply not for you - which is absolutely fine

To continue my painting analogy...

If you love painting portraits you can paint portraits in your spare time - but to earn money doing something related to something you love you may need to compromise by doing graphic design, illustrations, or even painting houses!!!!

In the music BUSINESS decisions are often made by finance people - rather than music lovers (which is very sad but true) - so they are looking for "good investments" rather than "good songs"

This is less harsh for those that want to be the writer AND the performer as it is often the "whole package" that is considered - but to be an annonymous writing wanting others to perform their songs then you need to play by certain rules

Quote
Do you think people can get good stuff out there and no need for Berkelees?

I absolutely do!

If you have not done so already you need to get the following books:

Six Steps to Songwriting Success: The Comprehensive Guide to Writing and Marketing Hit Songs
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Six-Steps-Songwriting-Success-Comprehensive/dp/0823084779/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1521048785&sr=8-1&keywords=blume+jason
This book is a little old now but it will definitely get you in the right mind set. It also contains info about pitching, contracts, royalties etc.

Shortcuts to Hit Songwriting: 126 Proven Techniques for Writing Songs That Sell
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shortcuts-Hit-Songwriting-Techniques-Writing/dp/0982004001/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521048888&sr=1-2&keywords=shortcuts+to+hit+songwriting
Again this is a little old but givs some of the key "rules" for commercial writing

Shortcuts to Songwriting for Film & TV: 114 Tips for Writing, Recording, & Pitching in Today's Hottest Market
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shortcuts-Songwriting-Film-TV-Recording/dp/0982004028/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1521049250&sr=1-1&keywords=shortcuts+to+songwriting+tv
This is focused on writing for TV & Film, which is a good (but highly competitive) market that needs a specific set of skills

Buying and studying just these 3 books will give you all of the knowledge you need to tailor your songwriting to commercial oportunities

If you then invested in some professional critiques (as well as getting feedback on songs from this forum) I think you could get everything you need to have a good crack at commercial songwriting

But you need to get your head around writing "commercially" and not for yourself first
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

Katie Wilson

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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2018, 05:31:20 PM »
Hi I might not be a great songwriter but I get so much for development for my well being for writing how I feel , ok it might not be lyrically correct but the emotional and creavity reward far outweighs anything else

Also I went on a painting course a few years ago but stopped because I'd rather paint badly because it was me and I was expressing how I felt and I didn't want to paint a masterpiece that wasn't really me

Jenna

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« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2018, 09:18:00 PM »
I've taken an online course in songwriting. I've actually taken several. Berklee offers a course with Pat Patterson for free (or it was when I took it a couple of years back) at Coursera.org. It was well worth the time invested. This was the last course that I took, because I felt that it gave me the last piece of the puzzle that I needed to pull the previous bits together. I started the journey at one of those subscription websites and got a handful of tools with little direction. It left me floundering.

Next up, I picked up a book that described the commercial formula for a hit song - something about addiction factor - I don't recall exactly. But that gave the main format for commercial hits, with the energy that builds, then releases, then builds higher, then releases a little, then builds yet higher again for the big release at the end. This was also very valuable input.

The Pat Patterson course then dove into the nitty gritty on prosody and power, where to place the rhymes, where to put the power words, how to make it all ebb and flow. I honestly didn't feel like I knew what I was doing at all until after the Berklee course. Now I'm more comfortable, with a road map and tools in hand, ready to chip and carve more polished lyrics with a professional quality to them.

I don't regret the time spent on any of these efforts. Every one built on the next like foundation blocks. Keep at it. You'll find what you need. I didn't do any of the homework, either. But I'm not the type of person who ever really needed homework to solidify a lesson. It usually just sticks the first time. Good luck and enjoy the journey!

CaliaMoko

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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2018, 09:56:49 PM »
The Pat Patterson course then dove into the nitty gritty on prosody and power, where to place the rhymes, where to put the power words, how to make it all ebb and flow. I honestly didn't feel like I knew what I was doing at all until after the Berklee course. Now I'm more comfortable, with a road map and tools in hand, ready to chip and carve more polished lyrics with a professional quality to them.

I need to go through my Berklee materials again. I took that course in 2014 (before it was Coursera) and I forgot all about "power words" and where to put them. I would love to have a live review with Pat Pattison. I watched one of his master classes on video (it was part of the course I took)--it focused on prosody and was excellent. Though most of us probably wouldn't be as strict about prosody as Pat is. I think it's possible to find some of Pat's videos on YouTube...[looking]...yes, here's video 1 of 4 of a master class:
. Once you're there you can probably find the other three. A web search will also bring them up.

Jenna

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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2018, 05:07:26 PM »

I need to go through my Berklee materials again. I took that course in 2014 (before it was Coursera) and I forgot all about "power words" and where to put them. I would love to have a live review with Pat Pattison. I watched one of his master classes on video (it was part of the course I took)--it focused on prosody and was excellent. Though most of us probably wouldn't be as strict about prosody as Pat is. I think it's possible to find some of Pat's videos on YouTube...[looking]...yes, here's video 1 of 4 of a master class:

That's why I love your critiques, because you seem to remember the parts I don't as well, like balanced and unbalanced lines/verses. I'd completely forgotten about that until you mentioned it recently.

EveWilliams

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« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2018, 11:28:04 PM »
** edited by Boydie

Please contact me directly via PM to advertise on this forum
« Last Edit: November 09, 2018, 08:03:38 AM by Boydie »

Musicbusinesslauncher

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« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2018, 07:48:24 PM »
**Edited by Boydie - please contact me to advertise on this forum**


If you want to take any online courses I would highly recommend Berklee College of Music
« Last Edit: November 24, 2018, 09:16:30 AM by Boydie »