[Martinswede]

At quick look gives me the impression that there's a lot more threads starting in Lyrics than Wip but the general activity is lower. A posted lyrics only gets about 4-8 replies.

A 2 week rule is effective against overflow but I think it will inhibit the creativity of that section largely. With no so many commenting a quicker rotation is needed.

If a rule I'd land somewhere  around 4-7 days. Otherwise keep nothing as a rule.

Martin

[Hooded Singer]

I'm conflicted. On one hand consistently applying the same rule across the boards makes things simple.

On the other hand;
- The community here is relatively modest in size
- I posted lyrics on the Lyrics board on January 23 (two weeks ago today) and that thread is still only half way down the first page of the board.
- For many the allure of a songwriter forum is sharing lyrics and getting feedback, having to wait two weeks between posts is a little draconian when a person can conceivably have two or more flashes of inspiration in a two week period for a few verses for different songs.
- There are alternatives, like a notice to please be considerate of other users and while there is no limit on the number of threads that can be made it would be appreciated if those made by the same user could be spread out where possible to allow all users to receive feedback.
- Most threads get five or less comments on them in the Lyrics board, is it really proportionate to make a person wait two weeks before they get three general comments from the community?

In my opinion the rule would only exist for uniformity and serves no real purpose. Why have it?
Well, it prevents huge numbers of threads but as mentioned it's relatively dormant and the community is relatively small so that probably won't happen anyway (currently there's no limit and it's not an issue).
Secondly, it prevents one user from clogging up the board and soaking all of the attention. Again, with the community being small it's not really like someone is stepping on people's toes if they make a few threads. I think it better to trust in community courtesy and let the odd thing slide than to impose restrictions on everyone for a problem that doesn't exist in the Lyrics board.

[Hooded Singer]

Why would you want less posts and activity on a forum?

[Paulski]

I would rather it wasn't applied to the lyrics section. Mainly for selfish reasons - I tend to write lyrics in spurts. Maybe a max of one per day would keep the spammers out?

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Paulski has exposed the issue here....'I tend to write lyrics in spurts'

OK you've written it down, but do you need instant attention. That's why there are certain controls in our society. Restrain yourself or you will be restrained by other means.

Gratuitous posting leads to irritation for some (as we've seen) and less meaningful commenting and interaction I think.

I see people post in the Finished Songs section, get hardly any reviews but don't much care because they're already typing out the lyrics for their next post.

And people feel an obligation to comment - this is the whole idea after all - so you end up with loads of inane comments like 'Cor a real rocker...this is great!' and then on to the next one etc etc

Floods of new stuff and floods of obligatory cheap reviews render the whole thing meaningless in my view......but I suspect I might be in the minority here so I'll just sit back and let you all get on with it!

Just couldn't restrain myself from giving my viewpoint!

[shadowfax]

And finally, which is not quite what you were asking, I think Finished Songs should be one per month...it moves too fast and too many are posting BANG like clockwork on the fortnight. It does my head in.

why should the rules be changed just because some peeps are more prolific than others?
and why the heck does it do your head in?
one song per month would suite you but it would kill the feedback on finished songs area...
weeks would go by with nothing happening...but that's what you want innit!!!

the forum is different things to different peeps..enjoy it your way and let others enjoy it their way please..
best, Kevin

I couldn't restrain myself from giving my veiwpoint!!

[shadowfax]

Paul..it's your forum ..apply whatever rules you think you need...best way I reckon, if peeps don't like it they can find a better forum...which is impossible I reckon

[shadowfax]

Paulski has exposed the issue here....'I tend to write lyrics in spurts'

OK you've written it down, but do you need instant attention. That's why there are certain controls in our society. Restrain yourself or you will be restrained by other means.

Gratuitous posting leads to irritation for some (as we've seen) and less meaningful commenting and interaction I think.

I see people post in the Finished Songs section, get hardly any reviews but don't much care because they're already typing out the lyrics for their next post.

And people feel an obligation to comment - this is the whole idea after all - so you end up with loads of inane comments like 'Cor a real rocker...this is great!' and then on to the next one etc etc

Floods of new stuff and floods of obligatory cheap reviews render the whole thing meaningless in my view......but I suspect I might be in the minority here so I'll just sit back and let you all get on with it!

Just couldn't restrain myself from giving my viewpoint!

I'm sure it's not your intention to insult other members but your doing a pretty good job of it my friend...
if someone reviewed one of your songs and said..cor, what a great song...I'm sure you'd be very happy..

[Boydie]

Thanks guys, this is all really useful and there are some interesting points coming out

Just to help consolidate the discussion... here are some of the pertinent points:

I will NOT introduce a new rule just for the sake of consistency and/or to fix a problem that is not there - hence asking for opinion

The reason for raising this is that some members "get the hump" when a member (often new member) floods the lyrics board with lots of posts - and recently the mods got unfair criticism for not enforcing "common sense"

It does worry me when we leave things to "common sense" and "courtesy" because I feel it provides an unnecessary grey area where new members are excited and post lots of lyrics, get pounced on or criticised by others - but they have not broken any rules or guidelines

So we either place a clear guideline to ensure everyone knows the rules (and that can be 1 day, 5 days, 1 week, 2 weeks etc.)

OR

We acknowledge that there is no limit but we can then not get grumpy when people "spam" the lyrics thread with posts - if you think that spamming the lyrics board with lots of posts at once then you are agreeing that there needs to be a limit!

What I am trying to explore is what should this limit be

I think we would all agree that if a new member joined and posted 10 lyrics threads in one day it would be an issue? (Would we all agree on this?) - so using this scenario what would be a sensible limit?

1 post a day?, 1 post every 2 days, every week?...

The reason for the suggestion of a limit is to slow the boards down - e.g. In the other sections that are busier a song could slide off the front page in no time and not get the attention it deserves

It looks like this is not an issue for the lyrics thread so we may not need a limit at all - but I do think we need a guideline for perceived "spammers" (which is actually a limit)

I know it is my call but I really do want to get a good range of opinions, especially from those that use the lyrics board the most, as I know I won't please all of the people all of the time - but it is nice to know if there is a consensus- and the votes are currently 6 each so there doesn't appear to be at the moment!!!

If people would prefer to comment in private please feel free to drop me a PM as I would like this sorted for the launch of the new forum at the weekend (and whatever is or isn't put in place doesn't mean it can't be changed if it is not working)

[Neil C]

Boydie, I'd go with one a week on lyrics so we all know the norm.

Probably the best thing is the how the forum works guidelines for new joiners

Being really clear to access and easy to digest the rules without dampening enthusiasm.

Good luck

Neil

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Boydie, I'll second Neil's suggestion if that helps

I voted no but not because I don't think there shouldn't be a limit....bit of a drawback in the voting choices there...I think one week would be right for the lyrics section just as you say as a guide to try to stop mass postings....a bit of leeway will be given or not according to the judgements of those who use the forum most I suppose.

Don't really want to get into any lengthy sparring here but I don't think I've insulted anyone, have I?

I simply think that, as songwriters, we ought to have more to say about what is great about a song rather than just saying it's great and that the number of songs posted leads to people not having the time to really properly comment on what it is that they appreciate about the song or the craftsmanship behind the song so it becomes a place where we just post songs to get listens and it doesn't really matter then what anybody says so we might just as well have no commenting at all.

This is a viewpoint that, in my mind bears thinking about, and is to me something that should be considered and debated.....perhaps not right here right now though.

[Boydie]

I don't think any offence was caused or intended

It was more the discussion than the vote, which was originally posted following the recent lengthy discussion

It is looking like 1 week may be the "sweet spot" for the lyrics forum

Would love to hear from anyone else with a view

[tomcrocus]

I was a one of those who got on my high horse but
went about it totally the wrong way.I certainly wasn't
having a go at the mods even if it sounded that way.

One set of lyrics a week gets my vote,
                                                         Tom.

[Paulski]

Paulski has exposed the issue here....'I tend to write lyrics in spurts'

OK you've written it down, but do you need instant attention. That's why there are certain controls in our society. Restrain yourself or you will be restrained by other means.

You wound me VC! I don't need or want "instant attention" or maybe I do IDK
I can live with one a week but might have to suck my thumb between posts (for comfort ) 

[adamfarr]

I'm not sure about the 2 weeks or any time limit. But could a guideline like the following be helpful (and actually have a similar effect)? "You should ideally post lyrics when they are in a good enough shape to get the most out of the feedback. Usually the best results happen when you've taken them as far as you can, and can pinpoint specific questions or areas of doubt, rather than posting immediately in a very raw form."