[shadowfax]

It's often been said on this forum that it's a songwriters forum..it's about the song!! fair enough, you do need a song to start off with of course but, I believe production plays a very large part, for instance I have never heard a song on the radio or tv where the song was..out of time, the singer was out of tune,the snare cut your head off or the guitarist made mistakes, production is important...
I believe helping peeps get the presentation of their song right is a good thing, listeners out there are quite sophisticated and do not want to listen to music with the aforementioned probs...
I work very hard to make my songs at least listenable from the playing and production point of view,
I'm not saying a songwriter shouldn't post a song with the aforementioned probs, I just don't want to bother trying to help someone make it better to be met with..yeah but it's about the song innit!!! if this is the case then I will not mention anything to do with production..

if peeps on this forum disagree with me please say so here and i will cease to mention anything to do with production..
this is posted with sincere respect to all songwriters..not trying to start a flame war..
maybe we should have an..I don't care about production sticky ( that can be ticked) within each post then we'll know not to mention it..

thank you,
best, Kevin

[pompeyjazz]

Well Kev, I have to say that you probably more than anyone have helped me with advice on production especially when I was starting out and I am forever grateful for that  Your honest feedback helped me enormously

[PaulyX]

Yep, I'd always value comments on the production too.  Keep em coming Kev.

[cowparsleyman]

Hi Shadowfax, I sort of agree, but I'm also very aware that there are folk in this forum who:

1. Don't have any experience in production.
2. Don't have much money to buy expensive gear.
3. Can't sing but enjoy writing songs.
4. Can't play but enjoy writing songs.

When I listen to a song, I listen to the song, not the production. If I it's a great song I can hear past the out of tune singing or sloppy drums, I can imagine what good production will do to it. I have heard in this forum some fantastic songs, with awful singing/production, I have also heard some awful songs with great production.

If it's the best they can do with the skills/resources they have then I'll always encourage, and advise where I can.

cpm

[PaulAds]

You’re one of the kindest, most helpful and knowledgeable members here, Kev. Your opinion is always very welcome and very highly regarded. For my part, I don’t think my songs have anywhere near enough appeal to warrant me busting a gut trying to make them ready for a medium they’re never going to appear on. I sometimes leave mistakes in. That’s what being human is all about. It’s quite important to me. When I was a kid, playing brass, I’d sit practicing for hours with tears of frustration rolling down my cheeks. I was pretty good back then, but I was never good enough. I freed myself from it and started loving it again.

If I had your production skills...I’d make every song I did sound fantastic.

[shadowfax]

Hi Shadowfax, I sort of agree, but I'm also very aware that there are folk in this forum who:

1. Don't have any experience in production.
2. Don't have much money to buy expensive gear.
3. Can't sing but enjoy writing songs.
4. Can't play but enjoy writing songs.

When I listen to a song, I listen to the song, not the production. If I it's a great song I can hear past the out of tune singing or sloppy drums, I can imagine what good production will do to it. I have heard in this forum some fantastic songs, with awful singing/production, I have also heard some awful songs with great production.

If it's the best they can do with the skills/resources they have then I'll always encourage, and advise where I can.

cpm

Yeah, same here..so they need help with production, so should we mention it or leave them to it?
when you listen to a song..you are listening to the production..otherwise you would not notice the problems you mention
as a quick for instance..if Lennon played you Tomorrow never knows ,alone, just strumming his guitar in C..would you imagine the end result..I think not..

[shadowfax]

You’re one of the kindest, most helpful and knowledgeable members here, Kev. Your opinion is always very welcome and very highly regarded. For my part, I don’t think my songs have anywhere near enough appeal to warrant me busting a gut trying to make them ready for a medium they’re never going to appear on. I sometimes leave mistakes in. That’s what being human is all about. It’s quite important to me. When I was a kid, playing brass, I’d sit practicing for hours with tears of frustration rolling down my cheeks. I was pretty good back then, but I was never good enough. I freed myself from it and started loving it again.

If I had your production skills...I’d make every song I did sound fantastic.

you undersell yourself my friend..your songs are very clever and better and better production would only make them more and more suitable for any media..onwards and upwards mate!! never give up!!

and my production skills are not actually particularly good..still learning!!

[shadowfax]

Well Kev, I have to say that you probably more than anyone have helped me with advice on production especially when I was starting out and I am forever grateful for that  Your honest feedback helped me enormously

very nice of you John..thank you.. like you, I'll help anyone who needs it..

[kevysc]

I personally love getting advice on Production, as it really helps polish a song, but I think any constructive advice is helpful. I assume anyone who posts here wants feedback to help them improve, whether that relates to the song structure, lyrics or production. (And of course, they are free to ignore it if they so choose .)

Cheers, Kevin

[jacksimmons]

For me, advice on production is one of the most invaluable things. I am relatively confident in my songwriting but incredibly conscious about my lack of production ability. Feel like I am at the bottom of a very big mountain, and advice from the production wizzes here really helps.

[adamfarr]

Kev - you always give feedback in such an encouraging way and tbh anyone would be crazy not to listen to someone with your skills and track record in making things sound amazing.


I think I may be somewhat responsible for this thread with my comments yesterday, and my point is that we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water - it’s like those 1 star reviews on Amazon that say “arrived one day late” but the product was actually great. For example I have had really unkind comments about my singing which did not help me at all to improve and I think did totally miss the point. I’m definitely not saying you yourself do anything like this!


There is a bit of horses for courses too - having been around for a while I know that there are some members who don’t want certain types of feedback so it’s pointless repeating the point.


But I would never exclude any type of constructive feedback, especially from those like you that have proven themselves highly qualified to give it.

[shadowfax]

Kev - you always give feedback in such an encouraging way and tbh anyone would be crazy not to listen to someone with your skills and track record in making things sound amazing.


I think I may be somewhat responsible for this thread with my comments yesterday, and my point is that we shouldn’t throw the baby out with the bath water - it’s like those 1 star reviews on Amazon that say “arrived one day late” but the product was actually great. For example I have had really unkind comments about my singing which did not help me at all to improve and I think did totally miss the point. I’m definitely not saying you yourself do anything like this!


There is a bit of horses for courses too - having been around for a while I know that there are some members who don’t want certain types of feedback so it’s pointless repeating the point.


But I would never exclude any type of constructive feedback, especially from those like you that have proven themselves highly qualified to give it.

Hi Adam..no, your not responsible for this thread..it's just something I've wondering about for a while now..
I think if peeps don't want advice on..playing/singing/production, ie, they don't want to hear that they may be out of tune or the song may be out of time..etc..etc..in other words, they don't want to improve and have no respect for the listener..(that's my take on it anyway) then they should say so in the post..and no advice will be given...
thoughtless and unkind comments come from thoughtless and unkind people who should be ashamed of themselves, however, mentioning sensibly and politely that maybe the singing does not sound quite in tune is surely good advice for anyone...
and if they just can't sing to save their lives should they not try and get a singer to help them showcase the song?
not all singers out there want money...
when I started singing I was abysmal and would not have inflicted it on anyone!! so I worked hard at it until it was at least reasonable...
to put it simply, in this thread I'm saying if peeps want help say so, if they don't... then say so.. I just can't imagine why anyone would not want to get better..maybe I'm ill

cheers Adam..
best, Kevin

[Neil C]

For me it's songwriting first, playing and production second.
Feedback is a gift for the benefit of the receipient, it's up to them whether they take it..
Reviewing and comments have really helped me up my game. 
Kevin's production is always top notch.
 
Neil

[Boydie]

The official answer is that unless the OP has said otherwise EVERYTHING is up for review / comment - including melody, harmony, lyrics, performance, production, mixing, mastering etc.

IMHO (and it is my forum    ) all of these factors make up "the song" being reviewed

The only exception is where the OP specifically says they are only looking for feedback on a specific area - or they say they do not want feedback on a specific area

[shadowfax]

The official answer is that unless the OP has said otherwise EVERYTHING is up for review / comment - including melody, harmony, lyrics, performance, production, mixing, mastering etc.

IMHO (and it is my forum    ) all of these factors make up "the song" being reviewed

The only exception is where the OP specifically says they are only looking for feedback on a specific area - or they say they do not want feedback on a specific area

Great!! so now we know...