[Scorpio Rising]

I struggle with equipment and actually getting the song recorded, can take a while, but it doesn't come out that bad quality wise. It just sounds bland. (It's a nightmare with only a cheap microphone at the moment!).

I agree that a lot more attention is given to the production in the majority of reviews, which is very helpful. But at my stage I think that focusing more on the songwriting is more helpful. I think the most helpful bit of advice I've had given to me stated that "this part is fine, but the chorus is not great at all". I don't want to spend hours putting strings behind something (I can't even do that as I don't have a MIDI keyboard or anything, I think?) even though it's a rubbish song.

You can't polish... you know

[Mr.Chainsaw]

I don't understand the ins and outs of recording music. I only found out what VST meant the other day (it's not Venerial Sexual Transmission, thank god). You say MIDI to me and I hear awful Encarta 98 Encylclopedia song samples.

If I have a strength I can offer people on this forum, it's with words. I love language, be it lyrics, literature, clever advert tag lines, whatever. When I write a review, it is along these lines that I give advise, because I feel comfortable doing so, and that I might actually be helping.

I've got serious respect for the forumites that know this stuff so fluently. If it wasn't for Ramshackles I'd still be trying to make heads or tails of recording kit, what to buy, what I don't need, etc. The guys (and gals) that have a feel for the nuances of post production and mastering really impress me. It's something I aspire to, inbetween working 11-10.

But what seperates songwriting from, say, writing, is that it as marriage of these two things. It's not just what we are saying, it's how it is said as well. Which is more important? Hmm, subject of another thread, I think.

All I can say is you should "review" each song honestly, and to your strengths. If you know production, great! If you appreciate lyrics, go for it! If you're doing a Phd in Composition, bring on the wisdom!

We have alot to offer each other. If we're honest and encouraging, what more can we ask from a review?

Also...

I wouldn't stop writing if some of you lot told me one of my songs was shite

They are shite. We're all just too polite to say anything

Peter

[tone]

They are shite. We're all just too polite to say anything

Peter

Was waiting for that!

Bang on cue; I'm just about to post one of my new songs.

[chrislong170273]

hahaha 

[Kafla]

God - theres been too many replies to keep track here I know this is off topic now but now we are on it....

Agree with Chris that songs should be able to sit alone on piano and guitar.

Dutchbeat is spot on about posting - Its dis-hearting at times to post a song and then some newbie posts 6 songs in a row and yours gets lost.

Agree with Chainshaw as well - we should comment where we feel we have the ability to be constructive

Ramshackles - your advice regarding production has been very, very helpful and I have learned a lot.

But we all need to be more honest - how can I improve personally if people are just going to say a song is brilliant. It is also a songwriting forum so lets have a little more focus on the actual songwriting.

And we all need to remember its just personal opinions, even taste to dont take it to heart

[Ramshackles]

I don't want to spend hours putting strings behind something (I can't even do that as I don't have a MIDI keyboard or anything, I think?) even though it's a rubbish song.

Agree with Chris that songs should be able to sit alone on piano and guitar.

think we are getting a bit off point - the OP wasn't necessarily saying that songs should be developed for hours or that they should all have full blown orchestra's, VST's etc behind. It would be good to see them recorded to the best standard you can.
By that I mean - tune your guitar, practise what you are going to play before you do. Do what you can to reduce the sound of stuff you dont want in the song (turn the damn tv off), take a few minutes to test the levels before recording - no need to have unnecessary distortion and clipping on a record.
Then after recording, spend at least a minimum amount of time at the very least setting the levels of the individual tracks.
These are things that take a matter of minutes to do, but help no end in allowing the listener to concentrate on the actual song rather than be distracted by annoying asides. Sounds simple  but it happens quite often that some or none of these points are addressed - by neglect or lack of knowledge.
I agree completely that good songs sit alone on piano or guitar - I think my last song I posted was mostly just voice and guitar (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/song-reviews/the-lifeboat/). But with just the simplest of equipment, clarity in a recording should be achievable, especially on such sparse arrangements.

I also agree that more honesty is perhaps needed - some kind of status below the avatar would be cool, stating how harsh we like to be reviewed something like 'Give me hell!' or 'I cry myself to sleep every night'....

[jmacdon]

Ramshackles I think sums up what this thread is all about

 "the OP wasn't necessarily saying that songs should be developed for hours or that they should all have full blown orchestra's, VST's etc behind. It would be good to see them recorded to the best standard you can.
By that I mean - tune your guitar, practise what you are going to play before you do. Do what you can to reduce the sound of stuff you dont want in the song (turn the damn tv off), take a few minutes to test the levels before recording - no need to have unnecessary distortion and clipping on a record.
Then after recording, spend at least a minimum amount of time at the very least setting the levels of the individual tracks."

Whether you are recording your demo through Logic Pro or an iPhone perched against the piano - you need to take an objective view and ask yourself "is this the best I can do in the time available?".     As Eminem so eloquently rapped "Look, if you had one shot, or one opportunity, To seize everything you ever wanted in one moment, Would you capture it or just let it slip?"

[domstone86]

I agree with Ramshackles here. And I bet you agree with certain points Chris

Most extreme example, somebody does an amazing jazz song, and it's squashed to shreds with compression. 80% of that song is GONE. Jazz players love their inflections and articulations, but if they don't come through, that will turn into a sterile track like Kafla mentioned.

I understand that some guys on this forum might have a hard time making their mixes to a complimentary standard, as I've been there myself (We all have), but unfortunately, time and effort needs to be spent. Also, recording studios don't make their money from nowhere

I remember a couple of years ago, I made new songs, each song sounding better than the last, I was impressed with them, they were a good representation of what I could do. They sound terrible to me now as I've learned to notice unlikely things that an article just can't teach straight away.

However I don't regret putting them online, and they're still up if you look carefully as they have shaped and defined me, and I've learned from the comments received. I wouldn't share them now except for nostalgia, as they are of little relevance to what I make now, and it's going for the wrong message.

Not sure if that makes sense or not lol.

P.S. Chris, impressive resume!

[chrislong170273]

yes of course i agree that if you can, put up a decent recording, especially at the extreme lower end of the quality spectrum.

but if you can't, put something up where people can hear the musical elements of the song, so your song, not the produciton, can recieve feedback, isn't that what its about?

Chris
www.chrislong.me.uk