Please recommend a condensor mic

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flossie

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« on: November 29, 2011, 06:58:36 PM »
Hiya,

I'm looking to buy a condensor mic as I'm using a sure sm59 dynamic.  I was thinking about a rode nt1a but can spend a little more if need be.  If anyone has heard my voice and can think of one that would suit it that would be great.

Thanks

Flossie
x

Ramshackles

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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2011, 07:27:48 PM »
Whats your top budget? The second hand market is often a good place to go to get a great mic cheaply. Also check out the classifieds on SoundonSound.
I guess you are using it for vocals, in which case a large diaphragm condenser is the place to be. If you can afford it, Neumann TLM103 and AKG 414 are top mics and not ridiculously priced. (Neumann U47's, U67's, U87's are top of the range, pro mics, but cost 1000s :O, the TLM103 is essentially a stripped down U87 :))
Rode also make a fairly nice tube mic - think it's the NTK?
I like some Brauner mic's and the Golden Age Project ribbon mic is one I use all the time for female vocals...

If I was very rich, I'd buy a Wunder CM7, a Neumann U47 and a pair of Neumann 184's for a start...
But, different applications need different mics and different voices and environments suit different mics better... :S

Best advice: Go on to ebay/favourite shop, type in your budget and then look for reviews (in SoS perhaps) of the microphones that come up. If you can snag a TLM103 within your budget, it won't let you down...

tina m

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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2011, 08:36:17 PM »
whats so great about a condenser mic over that shure one then?
we have got 3 old shure mics we sort of inherited what do you get extra witha  condenser  mic why are they better for vocals?
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Kafla

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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 08:45:52 PM »
Please please please buy the rode NT1a

It's amazing

Seriously I can pick up the kids arguing downstairs with this beast when i am recording upstairs

Unbelievable piece of kit!

tina m

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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2011, 08:51:20 PM »
that sounds like a reason not to buy it :)
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Kafla

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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2011, 09:01:07 PM »
 ;D

But they argue in tune

And

I find out lots of family secrets  ;)

tone

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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2011, 09:22:02 PM »
Funnily enough I've mostly heard opinions against the Rode NT1... But, I've recorded with a pair of AKG414's and the sound is beautiful, detailed and warm.

Any of the mics Ramshackles mentioned would be a good investment I think.
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Ramshackles

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« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2011, 11:55:58 PM »
the NT1-A is a good all-rounder, budget mic. I've found that for all female vocals I've done it is too bright, on the point of being harsh. The girl who has sung most for us recently has a high voice which comes out thin and harsh in the rode. Ribbon or tube mics seem to suit her best (but alas, we dont have a tube to keep :( ). But I still use the NT1-A at home for my vocals, backing vocals that need to be airy and sometimes as a 2nd guitar mic...

Why choose a condenser over a dynamic (like your shure mic):
 - Condenser mics have a much flatter and broader frequency response than a dynamic mic, meaning they more accurately capture whatever noise is going on. All the little nuances you make while singing will be picked up by the condenser whereas a dynamic might miss them.
- Condenser mics are much more sensitive and so can easily handle soft vocals and capture large changes in dynamics.
Very basically a condenser mic is a metal diaphragm which acts as one end of a capacitor. This vibrates when sound waves hit it, causing the size of the capacitor to change (the other end of the capacitor is fixed). Introduce a voltage to the circuit and the changing capacitor will give fluctuations in the voltage. The diaphragm is a very thin metal disc (looking at the NT1-A in the light it is quite easy to see it). As this is very light, the sound waves have to do very little work to move it, explaining it's sensitivity and linearity. Of course, as it needs a voltage across to create the changes in voltage (:P), it requires a power source ('phantom' power), which most preamps provide.

A dynamic mic has a small frequency response that is not very linear. It also has large areas of rejection (you have to be directly in front of a dynamic and pretty close to it for it to pick you up clearly). It also works with a diaphragm, but this time the diaphragm is pushing a magnet in a wire coil (thus inducing the changing current, which explains why dynamics don't need power). This heavier configuration means the sound waves have to do more work to generate a response, making it less sensitive (and harder to move if you are talking at it from the side, for example).
I remember that wiki had a great image comparing the freq. response of a condenser and a dynamic mic, I'll try to find it.

Dynamic mics are pretty good for loud/rock vocals as they can handle much more noise than a condenser (which is why you should never use a condenser for live music). The vox on the Thriller album were done with a SM57 I believe.

Preamps also affect the sound, but less than a mic. As a rule of thumb, the further down the signal chain you get, the less that has an effect on the sound. I.E the singer and the room has the biggest effect, then the mic, then the preamp (then the converters but they are fairly negliglbelbelilgie. you've gotta be a pretty hardcore audiophile to start comparing them).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 11:58:33 PM by Ramshackles »

Ramshackles

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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 12:01:07 AM »
Heres that link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Oktava319vsshuresm58.png

PS The reason I know all this crap is that I asked the v. same question the first time I decided to buy a condenser and saw the prices....
My next question was..."If they all work on the same principle, why are some £300 and others £3000 ?"

Schavuitje

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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2011, 01:26:15 AM »
I bought a Samson C03. You can get them online for about £59. With free delivery.

If you are going to be carrying about... it comes in a very sturdy and durable case with thick padding.

For the price I personally think it is fantastic. Best piece of equipment I bought.

You can have a look.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&safe=off&q=samson+c03&gs_upl=0l0l1l6335l0l0l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1902&bih=918&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=15146457373157108764&sa=X&ei=HobVTrPNDIvm8QPTqsSqAg&ved=0CFEQ8wIwAQ
There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in  , but they're ever so small, that's why rain is thin.

flossie

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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2011, 08:33:07 AM »
Thanks for the brilliant  responses they'ver been really helpful.  I've decided on an NT2a Rode mic and will let you know what I think.  For my budget it looks really versatile and hopefully will do the job.  The vocals with the dynamic mic were very muddy so hopefully this will clean it up.

Love Flossie
x

tina m

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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2011, 10:17:27 AM »
thanks for all the info ramshackles i  understood enough of it to see we need a condenser mic but the prices of the good ones are out of my budget realy
but isnt schavuitjes mic a comdenser?
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Ramshackles

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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2011, 11:42:11 AM »
It is indeed. I know 2 people that have owned it (they paid full retail price which samson site tells me is £80). One guy managed to break his after a month and the other guy said he's used it about twice.
They keep it cheap by making chinese slaves build it. Actually, I did a little research into this aswell when I was looking at the golden age projects FC3 mic (related to my why are some condensers cheap and some expensive question)..
Turns out (as far as I can gather from the reliable internets...) that there are a number of factories in china that churn out generic mics for nothing and european/american companies by them, rebrand them (put their own chassis and logo on them) and perhaps add a couple of extras and sell them on.
Golden Age Project FC3, Samson C03 and Behringer C-3 are all, essentially, the same mic. They hardly even bother to change the name! I wouldnt be surprised if there are 10 more mics the same.

That samson has 3 different polar patterns - but none of them are the 'standard' one for capturing vox (cardiod). It seems like it's a pretty noisy mic, although this might not be a problem in a typically home studio.
I've never tried it and it could be pretty fine. My feeling is that it wouldn't be a great improvement on a shure dynamic (or another top dynamic). But then, I've got to a point where I prefer to save and buy something top top, than by lots of cheap things and be a little underwhelmed...
Of course, I'm an extreme addict - my last purchases were a Neve 1073LB and bass traps from EQ Acoustics. Last mic purchase was a KM184, and my next purchase will hopefully be some kind of mixer (toft or manley).


Schavuitje

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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2011, 01:14:58 PM »
Hi again :) I can honestly say that I have nothing bad to say about the samson mic. For me at least

it gives me everything I want and I don't have much problems with noise at all although I wouldn't go

as far as saying I NEVER have problems. I can usually sort any noise problems IF they arise though.

I did not know about them being made by slaves in China. lol To be honest, lately I have tried to avoid

buying products made in China, to stop them dominating the world economy and because as you say

many products are made by kids and people with innapropriate experience AND with the cheapest

parts possible. I know a few friends who complain about things they buy that are made in China being

sub-standard. Usually breaking or falling apart. So on this I am with you :) I just personally have had no

probs with this mic and am very happy with the quality I get from it.
There are holes in the sky where the rain gets in  , but they're ever so small, that's why rain is thin.