[montydog]

Hi peeps,

I thought I'd throw this idea out there for debate.I don't have strong opinions either way but I am looking forward to the discussion. If a song is over 4 minutes, is the writer just lazy or is is there a justification for a long song? Can a world view be expressed in 3 minutes 30 seconds?

Alan

[pompeyjazz]

Whatever length that suits the song imo

[Hooded Singer]

I don't like the results if I try to artificially increase or decrease the length of a song.

I have songs that are 1 min 8 secs:

And songs that are 2 mins 25 secs:

If I feel done with a track, it's done. I can't force myself to add more to it if it feels rounded off and I want to apply energy elsewhere.

I would be more inclined to cut a long song than to elongate a short one, because long songs could drag on or over stay their welcome. It's easier to cut verses that don't seem on par with the rest of the song than it is to add verses when you're pretty happy with what's already on the page.

For the love of the hobby I don't think there's any reason to have concern over song length and just let it naturally be as long or as short as you wrote it.

Unless you're actively marketing a professional track to be on the radio and absolutely need it to be 3 mins 30, just do it your way. My songs have to be genuine and how I'd do them otherwise they fall apart, come out awkward and it'd be harder pressed to remember words that were added for no good reason I can feel or indeed to un-remember words cut that I loved and had in mind all through writing.

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Ditto. The song decides.

And laziness doesn't enter into it chez Cramer. I spend a lot of time on my songs....yeah some of them are quite long....and I will justify every second of all of them!

[Skub]

These days I always look back on any of my own songs and if they are much over the 3 minute mark,I look for places to trim. I like a song to exit stage left,leaving the listener wanting more,rather than have them sigh with relief that it's finally over. Folk are more inclined to listen again if it didn't take up much time.

Having said all that,large portions of my favourite music pays no regard to the human construct that is time. I'd say the clock is of secondary importance to what the song demands.

As ever,opinion will vary and everyone else is quite wrong.  

[PopTodd]

However long it takes to tell your story or get your point across.
It's about communication. You say as much (or as little) as you need to.

[2tuoo]

I think this subject can be answered differently by Songwriters and instrumentalists

Songwriters are concerned with the content of the written message. Generally taking something big and presenting it in the most condensed form while keeping the subject and the emotions covered. A long song with tons of lyrics can be a disadvantage because it might become too repetitive.

When I apply this approach to myself - a long song makes me feel that I'm not ready to cover such subject and I abandon those songs.

Instrumentalists can approach this from an entirely different angle - delivering emotions is stretched over time. Songwriter says "Sad" instrumentalist will have to go through 8 bars with modal interchange in order to convey the same feeling. There are cases which can be opposite but they are not that practical.

Another point from the instrumental perspective - the player's proficiency is showed over technical skill (solos, complex harmonies) and general delivery skills (putting the soul into it) so in a band/group with songwriters and proficient musicians, the songs will tend to be longer.

My best example would be campfire singing - the songs are the same but they are almost twice shorter since one person can deliver mostly on one thing in this setting. A counterexample can be a Blues concert with 3-minute songs - it wouldn't feel right since blues heavily demands the music to convey the spoken message.

Whoa, seems that I went on a long rant here, I'm going back to my Linux servers now.

[mickyplankton]

Whatever the medium for storytelling, whether its a novel, a play, a film or a song. In all cases, good editing is necessary.

Its as important in songwriting as it is in anything else. Cull what is not needed. Always put yourself in the shoes of the listener and trim what you can.

Just my opinion. But im coming at this from the perspective of punk/pop so i will be first to admit, my views are not necessarily well rounded!

Now if you will excuse me, i need to get back to work on my 12 minute magnum opus.....

[delb0y]

I've always thought that any given story can support a certain length in the telling. It maybe best presented in a limerick, a short story, a novel, a trilogy, a twelve book series... The secret is to get that balance correct. The same works for songs. If you can say what you want to say in two minutes, two minutes it should be. If it takes two sides of an album, then two sides of an album it should be.

That said, it has to be pretty good to fill two sides of an album, or even get beyond the five minute mark, and there aren't many bands that can pull it off.

But when they do...

[Cawproductions]

Wasnt the whole 3 minute thing from back in the day when the record cutter could only cut 3 minutes of audio on the master record....think I saw on a docu about recording in the 20's

[Paulski]

Well, you know what I am going to say  
I incessantly, unhealthily obsess about song length.
Yes, the song may demand a certain length, but she has to realise she is living in a short-attention-span world where 5 mins is an eternity for a lot of people. And those are the people that know and like you.
So, song - introduce yourself, say what you need to say as quickly as you can spit it out (lyrically and musically!) and then "get off the f%cking stage (1)"  

(1) - actual quote from our bass player to an agressive patron at a bar we played at