[cowparsleyman]

I was reading the post by Kev about his new equipment, and it got me thinking...

Which do you use, when and why?

Any bad/good experiences, recommendations?

cpm

[Ramshackles]

Both.
I absolutely think you cannot mix on headphones alone.
I generally switch between both, placing more importance on the monitors.
Headphones are good for listening to some details that are hard to hear on monitors...places where you make edits are good example. But headphones give you a warped view of the stereo image.. here is an article: https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-advice/q-why-cant-i-do-all-my-mixing-headphones
Proper studio monitors also pretty much always have a flatter frequency response than headphones, which is important.

Late on in the mix, I will also start checking it on some standard 'consumer' speakers (that I normally have hooked up to my record player) and some generic earbuds, to make sure it is sounding good across all media.

I have a pair of Adam A7X monitors with a Presonus Temblor T10 subwoofer and some Sony MDR-7506 headphones

[adamfarr]

I did a lot of mixes in headphones and they maybe weren’t easy but turned out fine for my (still learning) standards. So it can be done and in some homes it may be the only way.

I had two epiphanies: (1) I worked my butt off on a track, played all instruments, mixed tastefully, and got the comment “was there a bass?” - “normal” headphones overemphasise bass and so you’ll always put too little in. So you need flat ones (with semi open back preferably) - I got some AKG K-240s (old made in Austria ones) and things started sounding good and even translating.

Second epiphany (2) you know that thing when you have a dramatic pause of silence in a song? I put one in a song but clumsy limiting/mastering made it into this really noisy hissy un-dramatic pause. That I hadn’t heard on the AKGs. So I got some modest monitors (Eris 4.5) and was blown away by what I could finally hear. But I still use the headphones a lot and lots of others things too (terrible speakers, commercial headphones, virtual studio vst...)

I guess the end result is don’t mix just on one thing and definitely not just on normal person headphones ...

[PaulAds]

I do all my mixing on common or garden headphones...I have to get a mic and interface out of the cupboard and hook it up to my MacBook when I need to record. I know I’m a Luddite when it comes to mixing...but I very rarely have more than eight tracks...and most of my songs are simple enough to be just about getting a balance between instruments. I build any dynamics (usually none) into my playing so levels can be set and forgotten. I don’t eq anything unless I absolutely have to, I use as little reverb as possible and hardly ever use anything else in the way of effects. Even panning is a bit meh to me...stereo drum loops are premixed, bass and vocals go centre and only one panned guitar is going to unbalance things unless it has something else on t’other side, another guitar or perhaps keys.

For the quality of my songs and for the amount of faith and expectation I have for them, I’d feel like I was a mug for getting too bogged down in it all. I don’t enjoy mixing, really. A means to an end, I guess.

I think if I ever had a really great song then I’d possibly need to look at mixing (or getting it mixed) properly...but I am not sure that day will ever dawn. Horses for courses...but I’d rather do what I’d hope was an adequate mix and then go read a book and grab an espresso.

I typed all this and then thought about deleting it all in case it sounded like I was being a dick about it...but then decided to post it anyway...it is just my personal opinion. Nothing more.

[Wicked Deeds]

I do all my mixing on common or garden headphones...I have to get a mic and interface out of the cupboard and hook it up to my MacBook when I need to record. I know I’m a Luddite when it comes to mixing...but I very rarely have more than eight tracks...and most of my songs are simple enough to be just about getting a balance between instruments. I build any dynamics (usually none) into my playing so levels can be set and forgotten. I don’t eq anything unless I absolutely have to, I use as little reverb as possible and hardly ever use anything else in the way of effects. Even panning is a bit meh to me...stereo drum loops are premixed, bass and vocals go centre and only one panned guitar is going to unbalance things unless it has something else on t’other side, another guitar or perhaps keys.

For the quality of my songs and for the amount of faith and expectation I have for them, I’d feel like I was a mug for getting too bogged down in it all. I don’t enjoy mixing, really. A means to an end, I guess.

I think if I ever had a really great song then I’d possibly need to look at mixing (or getting it mixed) properly...but I am not sure that day will ever dawn. Horses for courses...but I’d rather do what I’d hope was an adequate mix and then go read a book and grab an espresso.

I typed all this and then thought about deleting it all in case it sounded like I was being a dick about it...but then decided to post it anyway...it is just my personal opinion. Nothing more.

Sounds like Rock 'n' Roll to me :-) Regardless of your technique, you are a fine songwriter my friend!

Paul

[PaulAds]

Ha...cheers, Paul 

[pompeyjazz]

Well I have to say that I agree with you One hundred percent Paul

[adamfarr]

Agreed with all that - whatever works, whatever you want to spend time on, whatever makes things sound good to the writer. I found it really difficult to make things sound good and am glad to have improved that. But for sure there is a lot of gear buying frenzy and herd following... (same as with $$$ guitars which don't make one's technique any better!)

[Skub]

I have never used monitors in any stage of the recording process,for no other reason than I record from the dining room table.    I have no dedicated recording space,so monitors are compromised anyway. Other folk in the house don't wish to hear me,so headphones it is.

I get around this by trial and error. When I do a final mix of a track,I burn a CD and listen to it on several units. With this knowledge I learn what mix will work when using cans. I'm never usually far off. Isn't it all about obtaining a datum point?

Whilst I agree that,in a perfect world,using speakers and cans is ideal,few of us live in a perfect world and even a recording novice such as myself can achieve good results using cans solely.

[Darren1664]

I typed all this and then thought about deleting it all in case it sounded like I was being a dick about it...but then decided to post it anyway...it is just my personal opinion. Nothing more.

I'm gladded you didn't delete as I find your post really useful! I do get bogged down in the mixing and tbh half the time it ain't too much fun and I do struggle. I need to take a leaf from your book!!

[cowparsleyman]

How revealing...

I wanted to know if there was a concensus of opinion, it seems cans seem to be used more.

I am fortunate indeed to have such a response from you guys, It seems that monitors are a luxury, that if you have the space and wallop, then they are great.

For what it's worth this is what I use, and I'll explain why they are useful, (excuse me if you already know all this, or it's been done before on this forum, and yes I know my production could always be better...)

Before starting, think of your song as a Car, it's much easier to change things early in the process then at the end, so.... I think Boydie and JohnnyUK touched on this, but time spent getting the sound you want before you press record, saves so much time later on, faffing about with EQ, compression etc. and be honest with yourself here, it might take an hour to get the right sound for an acoustic guitar.

Closed back headphones (AT MTH40x) for Vox and acoustic instrument tracking, they don't need to be top quality, just good at not letting the sound bleed from the cans into the mic, it's very hard to remove it once it's on your best vocal take.

Open back cans (AKG Q701)and very old hifi speakers (JBL L46 - I love the way they sound) not powered near field monitorsfor mixing and mastering, (both are very flat response, you'll think you are not hearing things right because there won't be a lot of bass).

I got the best I could afford (I had to save hard for them), as they will help translate your treasured instrument, hard work in writing and playing, into a finished song, and it also makes it so much easier in placing the track in the stereo and sonic image. (I imagine it like sitting in the centre of huge circular bookcase, with lots of pigeon holes to pop each part of the song in). I used to have a very cheap pair of Sony headphones and my mixing would always sound different in a confusing way, so the AKG's make it so the mix sound accurate when you hear it elsewhere, both in the stereo sound stage and tonally.

If I do listen on the monitors I either listen very loud, or very quiet, both are very revealing, and useful for things like solos and lead vocal levels.

The final phase is to listen with the speakers in the car for real life listening.

I don't think anyone mentioned the lugholes.  Before I start tracking,mixing or mastering I always hold my nose and blow out , like you do on a plane descending to stop the pressure in them, I found this 'reboots' your ears so they hear the same way, I can go back a mix from weeks before and know that I'm hearing it the same way.

Hope this helps,

cpm

[Johnnyuk]

Hi,
Many years ago i would always mix using the best speakers i could afford at the time. All that has changed for me.
Now i think like this...
If i can get my song sounding great on some shitty £30 speakers then it's gonna sound amazing on the high end speakers!
And it turns out to be true! Once i started using cheap nasty little speakers to monitor my mixes when i turned on my expensive speakers guess what happened? The sound quality and mix sounded great!
So dig out your cheap shitty little speakers because they too can help you to get the sound and mix that you want.
Johnny