[Wicked Deeds]

I joined this forum back in the very early days.  I used to spend so much time here but have left and returned after several breaks  for a number of reasons.  

I once disappeared because the forum had some very ugly arguments. I wasn't involved in those arguments but  also, I didn't want to spend my free time hanging around people who could argue for the most ridiculous reasons.  I attempted to settle back into the community a few years ago. I was attracted back  because essentially it is frequented mostly by some very decent people who are here because they share the common goal of songwriting. Unfortunately life presents challenges that's are far more urgent than contributing to any forum: children, work, career change, divorce , long distance relationship, engagement. So many life events that are of greater importance that demand attention.  However, I must say that this forum is overall, very welcoming to those who return.  

I have an enormous back catalogue of songs, both recorded and unrecorded. Every time I pick my guitar up  or sit at my keyboard, new ideas, come to me almost instantly.  There simply isn't enough hours in the day to write and produce (especially produce).  Inevitably, I'm going to disappear so that I can write - that's my main hobby.  I desperately want to write at the moment but I split myself between, work, looking after my children,  visiting my fiancée who lives at the opposite side of the country to myself,  study, applying for new jobs.  Hopefully life will settle down when I eventually move to live with my fiancée.  Increasingly, I find myself writing but not paying enough time producing.  I have a half baked song in the WIP section because I haven't got the time to really go for it.  I've reviewed one or two in that section and will continue to add reviews here and there but I'm back on the treadmill again, spreading my time thily amongst several commitments.  

I may disappear again. That's not because I have anything against the forum or individuals.  It's just life.  Mostly, what I treasure about the forum, are the friendships that's I have made with a handful of people who I really connected with and who I feel share a similar outlook.  These are  people that I have produced songs for or collaborated with at various times when, I have been here.

That's my take on forum life and  life in general.

Wicked Deeds

[adamfarr]

I think it's all cool really, at least I've liked nearly everything that's happened to me here and the unsavoury bits I've just avoided.

It's not like a football club forum where everyone likes the reds and hates the blues (or viceversa) and never leaves. There's a lot of different tastes, experiences, emotions, demands and opportunities. I think the forum does a pretty good job of accommodating all that. We each can use it in whatever way suits us and it's totally fine. The views count far outnumbers the comments count - not sure whether that translates into listens but that's fine too. I've been away too, because I felt myself getting "glass half empty" with reviews and barren creatively. Was good to do something else and good to come back.

I signed up for another forum once but it was too big and felt hard to approach. I'd like to think things are different round here but would they stay that way with more growth? Not sure.

Before anyone else says it, of course if our delb0y liked the reds then he'd still love the blues as well...

[Sing4me88]

Interestingly of late The Bar has been my favourite section and where I've gained new insights and perspectives on a whole range of things relating to music, songwriting etc. I also find some of the threads about theory and production incredibly helpful and useful and have had the good fortune of getting some great articles on other sites kindly brought to my attention by others posting them on here.

I don't post for review as much as a) I'm primarily a lyricist and b) while I do value the feedback and opinion of others it's clear from general discussions that what I'm shooting for and what others see as a 'good' song are two completely different things. I've a few others that I bounce ideas and songs off for feedback, collabs etc outside the forum as they're more on the same 'wave length'. There's also the matter of keeping the powder 'dry' in terms of not plastering certain lyrics and co-writes over the net while irons are in the fire elsewhere I guess too. That's not to denigrate the quality of feedback on here nor for that matter the quality of songs; both are great.

[Binladeda]

 Mmmm interesting thread

 Where do they all go ?  Who knows, but a 'core'
 always seems to emerge..

 I think what really makes this place work, and what
 lifts it apart from other forums is that it is run by
 the membership.  The mods take a back seat, all
 threads/competitions/collabs etc. are instigated by
 the members.  Every now and then a 'rogue element'
 appears and the mods come out.

 It's Organic man   Seasons change, people come and go.
 I know people who haven't been here for years, yet I'm
 still in contact with them, and we chat about 'forum things',
 although they aren't active here, they are still 'involved', and
 will probably return one day.......I do remember posting
 something about 'Forum Fatigue' many years ago, and I still
 think that it holds true.....for me anyway

 There's no doubt that the forum is many things to many people,
 But the 'core'...the people that keep it going, are usually not
 primarily focused on commercial success, but on the joy of
 writing songs and making music.  However we are all on the
 same journey, whatever the motivation, and this is the best
 place online to meet fellow travelers.....IMO 

 So, for me the answer to 'where have they all gone'...is that
 they haven't gone, they're just resting.......or they're dead




 
 

[Skub]

That last line gave me proper lol.
Ta for that Bin. 

[Marrianna]

Hi
It is interesting to see how the coming and going of members is viewed by different members. I like the understanding ones, keeping an open mind and not judging too harshly.

When I joined, it was because of encouragement by someone else. I didn't look for a forum to join but songwriting has always been important to me and so started to contribute, mainly because I thought I had experiences to share which other like-minded people may have been interested in. I was once proud of what I felt I had achieved, including  some small success and feeling I had learned quite a lot about the music-business. Then, life can suddenly throw more personal challenges our way, and that has happened to me recently. Priorities have to be our loved-ones and responsibilities have to be faced and taken on regardless of what we have previously been involved in. I have spent the last few months sitting in hospitals going through high levels of distress wondering what the next minute was going to throw at me and how i was going to cope. Through all this, I have been aware that I was involved with a music project which  was impossible to carry on with but that didn't mean it was forgotten, nor the songwriters I feel are there, some who have been friendly with me and the knowledge they were there has probably helped me to get through.

Life is unpredictable, and so I hope everyone can understand that commitments like being a reviewer or contributor on a forum have to go on the back-burner at times. It doesn't mean people just go away for no reason. Some might, but dedicated songwriters don't and miss their craft but it can't be helped. To have a welcome back is the best.

 These are my thoughts put together quickly. It is still good to be able to look in when possible.

Marrianna

[Martinswede]

Yes, The Bar.

Some names show all the time. That is true.
I think some members are more generous than others
when it comes to reviewing. Like replying a lot.
I'm not one of them.

My hypothesis is that by the nature of this phenomena called
a forum a certain kind of people are more common to be members.
In this case there are many elements regarding music in general
involved. With this some unspoken consensus about desired content.
This might be a disturbing thought but I base it on empirical studies
of the Finished Songs posts. There is undoubtedly a whole lot of
singer/songwriter pop there.

The great thing is that since the forum is imo big there are lots of people
with lots of different opinions. I believe there are some members having an
on/off relationship with this forum only writing when they really like something. (Or post songs)
And then there are new ones who have kind of a crush but then the feelings fade.

I check the forum twice a day. Reply every two days or so. When I check the Finished
Songs I tend to prioritize a song with 5 reviews over one with 23.

I'm a part sweet and loving man and part an introverted cynic who thinks the only good
thing in life is whisky and neither of those qualities are a good basis for writing reviews
but I still hang around. 

Martin

[Ramshackles]

Its not necessarily that songwriting is temporary hobby...perhaps even the reverse. Maybe doing music gets in the way of writing about it
Also like everyone else says, life can get in the way. I went on tour for a bit (as an engineer).
Also, if you do licence songs out, then you generally end up signing agreements on how you can use said song or recording (you cant, essentially). So that can always prohibit you from posting much...

Of course it doesnt explain all ~4K members. I imagine there is a lot of passing traffic. Same in all forums.

[Stylus]

      Tinaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

  Hi blessedly  wondrous n lovli  guitar  playin ,  song  makin'   Tina    Hope yer  still  doin it ! the songs,guitar,videos....
    Songwriting   is   being  creative. Someones  song is their baby   Its  their  creation, their form of art.
Overall   this is a fantastic forum &  theres  a wealth of info,tips &  interactive  guidence towards getting a  project developed to its best potential.  Sometimes  someones  song or lyrics  will  get  hacked at  & this kind of  came  from a few that  were not credible in  negatively criticising  that particular song. these few  would rarely  listen to the song & start  harping on about this & that....I  think genuine critiscism  is valid &  helpful  but the  out of context comments  unworthy &  kind of off putting. C'est La vie....     Anyway    thats  probably why   I disappeared  along with  feeling that   the 'fun' element  was lacking  &  it got  a bit dull  & kind of too  formal.  Sometimes  just a 'few lines put  wrongly  can  be discouraging.  I think  even  if the song  lacks,  or is poor  encourage &  guide  not every song is  supadupa,  not every film is a hit.........  I usually say it like it is....but pause to think  dont want to hurt   anyones   feelings  &  write accordingly.    Anyway  this is  my personal 2 rupees worth..........                              Hug'zzzz   Stylus 

[Boydie]

I think that is a really good point STYLUS (welcome back by the way!)

There is a definite learning curve to joining this forum and becoming part of the forum

Learning how to give a constructive critique is a skill that develops over time and gets easier the more you review

However, a much harder skill to learn is knowing which critiques on your own songs to take on board or completely ignore

It can be difficult to appreciate that everyone has different tastes/opinions and you will rarely please everyone all of the time with your song - even though you probably start off wanting to

Once you come to peace with this it is much easier to take any criticism on the chin and decide whether to ignore it or not

I find the best thing to do is only post a finished song when you are already a good way through your next song so you always look forward and not backward - make your NEXT song your best one

[Stylus]

   Totally agree!      ' Constructive  criticism' .

   Its  when  its not  within  context   i.e   Oh    the songs  not bad.....Its ok  but  drummer  needs to
   eat less porridge mixed with beer...... I  never used  a drummer on my recordings....   it was all me
   most people do everything  solo  in their  home recording  environment (as I did)  so   looking at the
   overall  picture   to see where  one is going with the track  is  positive.   i mean its  not  a bladdee full
   on release  or  20,000  grand backed up budget..?  its  a small  production  a demo  thatz all
                        Most people  who  gave critique  had experience,had done  wonderful  songs of merit..some  the few  were novices  &  not so good  at what they had done...It was  Unconstructive criticism  from  those   that  & their  attempt to be   Simon Cowell  or whatever....
                   Think   before you write.........!   maybe  some wrote   just to poke?   maybe some wrote  to stir?   who knows   ?  but yes...  sensitivity -   defence  mode  can  overtake one  at that moment.  I began  as a Guitarist   15 years  gigging  worldwide....Then became a DJ   10 years  & Now   last two years   back on  Live.    I wear my heart on my sleeve   &   support  by way of encouragment    plus  contructive   criticism  is  good.  optimism   is  benificial   pessimism is non gaining.                                                 
                                                     R'gardzzz    Stylus.   

[seriousfun]

I havnt posted in a long time.

Its not because I dont call in from time to time to see how things are going but creatively I am just burned out.  I wrote an awful lot of songs ( or should that be a lot of awful songs? ) over a ten year period and I got to the point where I was asking myself what is the point of pouring all this energy into producing songs that no one ever listens to?  That coupled with a band commitment which filled my musical thirst has had me step away completely from the writing gig.

Now, I am no longer with a band, just jamming with a few mates ( i hated gigging, too much like hard work) and finding it more enjoyable.  Am thinking about music again but photography has filled my creative void so I am never likely to be as productive again as I once was.

On the forum side, i like many others have commented, tried too hard to review everything and take a full role and while this can work for a small time it inevitably leads to burnout or a sheer inability to keep up.  I also got a disillusioned with posting as many seem to feel that a critique must contain critism or they havnt done their job. To me a critique always need to be handled in a careful maner. Often there are things in songs that I review that i dont personnaly like or would have done differently but I accept that the writer is looking for something else so I ignore that facit of the song.  Its all about encouragement. If a song is an attempt from someone less proficient as I (not many fall into this category) I usually pick one thing that i can suggest to help them move forward and something good in the song that I can praise to keep it balanced and positive. We all have feelpings.

In answer to your post starter Tina, i am not back but I am not gone either. I am just somewhere inbetween.

[pompeyjazz]

Allan, great post and sums up mainly what I think but then again I sometimes wake up in the moring and think eff it, If a song develops you guys are the first to hear it and I value forum critique highly. I was listening to Radio 6 this evening and my wife said "This band is shit " I  had to agree but they were young and current.  Overall I would say just do your own thang man cos nobody else has that

[delb0y]

I sometimes wonder whether, in a hundred and fifty years time, folks will look back on the 20th century and the first few decades of this one and ponder on how interesting it was that folks actually wrote songs. Then they'll open up their organic PC and click "Love Song" and "Bitter Sweet" and "Medium Tempo" and "Acoustic" and their machine will instantly create something for them. Over a period of time their personal machine will learn what works for them, what moves them, what triggers their heart to beat faster and the instant songs will get ever closer and closer to that person's perfection. They will be able to choose "In The Style Of" if they wish - but soon that function will slip into disuse as no-one will remember, or need to remember, actual songwriters. They will be able to choose "From the perspective of..." which will be akin to having a song written by another person - be it a poet, a soldier, a story-teller, a lover, a mother, a Peruvian monk...

It sounds horrible to us, and it will probably take a few generations to become the norm - but if your computer could create the perfect song/music for your mood and your personality at any given time why would you want or need anything else?

Folks will be able to share their favourites - but no-one will be interested, because their own songs will be so in tune with their own physical, mental, psychological needs at that precise moment that no-one else's auto-generated songs will deliver what their own songs can.

Come back to me in three hundred years and tell me I'm wrong!

[Skub]

Sound like a song idea,right there Derek.