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Where Do They All Go?

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tina m

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« on: May 05, 2017, 10:37:37 PM »
It was pointed out to me today that there are 4199 members of this forum!
but as the huge majority of people whos name you see down the bottom as the latest member never ever post, it doesnt mean much realy,
but nevertheless (is that realy one word?) loads of people join here, are active for a bit, & then disappear off the face of the earth
So it seems songwriting is only any good as a temporary hobby, most grow out of it & move on to pole dancing  & gardening & disappearing
which makes me feel a bit silly & childish, maybe I should have grown out of it by now, after all I must be one of the longest registered members here (tho I know Ive left a few times)

Anyway to get to another point: In all the time ive been here since 2011 I dont think this forum has grown...yes the number of registered members has but Im talking about the nucleus of committed  people here that keep it going (I dont mean the mods) I mean the ever changing core who are here most days doing the reviewing & posting... it seems to stay at about 14 all the time...isnt that weird??

Now heres the big question: has anyone gone on from here to have major success?
I need to know urgently as Ive bought a pole for my living room  ;D
Tell me Im wonderful & I ll be nice to you :)

Yodasdad

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« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2017, 10:50:28 PM »
Well I'm up for packing in songwriting and just spending some time in your living room ;)

I don't have much paper money as I'm a poor, soon to be ex-songwriter but I can throw pennies at you.

I think the answers in your question, where did you go when you left for a while?

I've come and gone and come again. Usually when I'm not here I'm not songwriting, work gets in the way or I need a little break from the addictiveness of the forum actually getting in the way of the writing.

The way I see it, of all, the things you could spend your time doing, songwriting's a pretty worthwhile one.

It is strange that the hardcore is so low though with such a high membership.

Maybe 14 people posting songs is about the limit of what people can cope with and there is a kind of subconscious regulation around thus saturation point.

Who knows.

I'm off to raid my piggy bank anyway.

See you soon.

Yodasdad
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 10:53:43 PM by Yodasdad »

tina m

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« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2017, 11:59:15 PM »
Well tbh every time I left, I left bcos I was angry at someone or some people, so Id do songwriting somewhere else... but I hardly ever came across any people from here....
But if you wait long enough every body here youre angry with disappears ...so you can come back & start enjoying it again :)
Thank you ever so much for your kind offers of giving me money towards my new curtain pole ...Oh you didnt think it was one of those upright ones did you!! ;D

Isnt there something called 'somebodys' number which is the biggest number of people you can have in a community before it all goes totally wrong & breaks apart?
Its like theres one for a songwriter forum & its 14!
Tell me Im wonderful & I ll be nice to you :)

hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2017, 04:41:43 AM »
Well tbh every time I left, I left bcos I was angry at someone or some people, so Id do songwriting somewhere else... but I hardly ever came across any people from here....
But if you wait long enough every body here youre angry with disappears ...so you can come back & start enjoying it again :)
Thank you ever so much for your kind offers of giving me money towards my new curtain pole ...Oh you didnt think it was one of those upright ones did you!! ;D

Isnt there something called 'somebodys' number which is the biggest number of people you can have in a community before it all goes totally wrong & breaks apart?
Its like theres one for a songwriter forum & its 14!

When I got here, there was a committed core of "listeners/reviewers."  As a newbie, I was so thrilled, that I joined this committed core.  Some of the committed core left (not necessarily left the forum, but put their musical energy elsewhere and stopped being such "committed listeners/reviewers." 

As some dropped off, some new ones replaced them.  I remember Paulski's arrival, and he kind of took over from me as the "excited to review newbie."  Then a few others dropped off, and (among others) Caliomoka arrived to take up the "excited to review newbie" role. 

I think it is healthy and appropriate for the "committed core" to "cycle" and to ebb and flow.  I don't review nearly as much as I used to.  I've gotten so much value from this forum, that my needs have changed.  I focus differently now.  I neither post as much, nor review as much. 

Not because I'm disappointed, but because I've grown through this experience to the point that I can find more value in other endeavors.  But I will always be a fan of, and a member of this forum.  If I disappear for good, you can surmise that I have died.  I love this place, but I take value from it in a different way than I used to. 

I suspect that a lot of people go through that process.  I don't think the forum needs to "grow."  Just to "maintain" that "committed core." 
www.reverbnation.com/hardtwistmusicsongwriter

Verlon Gates  -  60 plus years old.

Yodasdad

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« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2017, 11:49:12 AM »
Errrr, no I just appreciate a good curtain pole that's all. :-\

Well actually you did refer to pole dancing and then you said you'd bought a pole, I just thought.... ???

Oh man, okay, yeah, you got me. Look, I've got £1.37 in 1's and 2's and there's an 87p price match promise on a Tesco receipt I can throw in too, to sweeten the deal.

I'll even hold the pole if you need me to as well, just to help you out.

What you sayin then?

Yodasdad

P.s curtains are so yesterday anyway, blinds are what you want.

Boydie

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« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2017, 11:51:38 AM »
I often see familiar / older names pop up in the "users online" box but they don't post anything

I do suspect that some have found success in varying degrees (I can think of at lesser 3 or 4 that spring to mind)

I do think that those looking for commercial success "move on" as there is a feeling from some that this isn't "proper" songwriting

This is definitely something I would like to address at some point but I do not particularly want to "segment" the forum in a formal way

It can be frustrating when someone writing "commercially" gets a bad review from a more "purist" songwriter- in exactly the same way a "purist" songwriter writes a song "from the heart" just for the art, to then get a review saying the song doesn't work in a commercial way

Neither is write or wrong but I have witnessed occasions where I can sense the original writer feels the reviews are "unfair" because they have a different objective

We all have different goals, and some write for a variety of goals all at once, so the "value" of the forum varies

IMHO whatever stage/level you are at with your songwriting/production then ANY feedback is useful - the key it identifying the feedback you want to take on board and the feedback you can ignore


The other big question I regularly wrestle with is - do we actually WANT loads of new members?

I could very easily put together a digital marketing campaign and attract loads of new members but I am not sure this would be a good thing at the moment

I do have plans to expand the "remit" of the forum in the future to be able to accommodate an influx of members and develop different "pathways" for different songwriting objectives (whilst always maintaining the core element of the forum) - but I want to do this VERY slowly so as to not upset the existing balance

To check out my music please visit:

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Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

CaliaMoko

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« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2017, 03:01:32 PM »
I think a lot of people who are into songwriting have a tendency to seek out songwriter forums, sign up for them and, in some cases, forget they did so. I did that right here, in fact. I had totally forgotten I was already a member when I "discovered" this forum in December 2015.
...I remember Paulski's arrival, and he kind of took over from me as the "excited to review newbie."  Then a few others dropped off, and (among others) Caliamoko arrived to take up the "excited to review newbie" role.
I really enjoy reviewing and probably get too carried away with my remarks sometimes. I wish I could do more; I've had to scale way back because of my shortage of bandwidth. :( Right now, in fact, should be about noon May 10th, according to how much bandwidth we've used so far this month. When we run out of bandwidth, we get throttled. While throttled, most email (if no attachments) will come in and usually go out, but browsing is nearly impossible. Web pages, these days, have a tendency to be very bandwidth heavy.

Anyway, what I started out to say is, even if I had unlimited bandwidth, I would be overwhelmed by the number of posts available for reviewing. I have the urge to tackle them all, which, of course, would leave me no time to eat, sleep, or write. So I look for posts that have few reviews so far. I also try to remember to choose songs from the WIP board, since I've heard several times they don't get as many reviews. I also stay away from anything on YouTube, since videos use more bandwidth than sound files. And, if I'm somewhere with free wifi, I'll download as many songs as I can (not all are downloadable, of course). Basically, I feel like my number of reviews has dropped off sharply; I'm not doing as many as I'd like.

I think the number of our members is truly impressive, but I think we can only handle so much activity. I've spent some time in a forum that had more than 10,000 members (can't remember how many more and can't remember the forum). I think it was divided up into areas of interest. I'm not sure I want to limit myself to just one genre family, though. Maybe if the divisions were broad enough.

Enough rambling....
Vicki


Skub

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« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2017, 08:30:22 PM »
Aside from the diehard few,I think any forum membership has a shelf life usually defined by flagging interest and the need for pastures new. You'll always see folk coming and going as life events dictate and otherwise make demands on an individual's time. If you get a couple of years of a member consistently posting,I reckon that's the tail off point for many.

There is also the unfortunate reality that some members just run out of material,sometimes it's a dry spell,sometimes it's over. When I see someone posting a back catalogue from years ago,I tend to think there has been nothing new since then. How often can a member do that without wearing out their welcome?

Using myself as an example,I did no writing at all for the guts of 20 years and channeled my energy into,in no particular order,drinking like a fish,motorcycles,playing live in a band and frenetically energetic sex sessions,albeit often solo,but I had to slow down,it was making me walk funny.  :)

If the forum has maintained a changing nucleus of active members,even if the number seems relatively small,then surely that's a sign of good health? As Boydie mentioned,it would be a very different place if we had hundreds of posts every day and whether that would be beneficial to what we regard as a community,is in question.

I don't know which members have achieved any level of success,I suppose it depends on how you define 'success'. I know a few,who seldom post now, have their projects running,which must be described as successful? Speaking personally,I don't put any work into chasing publishers or hawking my wares,but I'm always glad for those who take a step toward their own dream by gaining some recognition for their work. It would be a bit mean spirited not to be delighted for them.

The sun has been shining here all week and I haven't even turned on my Mac to do any music stuff,I've been biking,cutting trees and generally doing outside stuff. I'm loving waking up every morning to a blue sky,because I know it won't last.



 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 08:32:20 PM by Skub »

Bill Saunders

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« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2017, 09:08:49 PM »
To contribute, particularly to this forum in a worthwhile way takes up a huge amount of time. New songs are posted by the dozen, the quality is high in most cases and they deserved to be heard more than once, and reviewed. I started on this path a few months ago, tried to keep up with it all, but it became overwhelming and I have given up.

I honestly think I would need to spend two hours a day on here to keep up and that's just not possible, or what I want to do with my life to be honest!

I have benefited hugely from feedback on my own songs and I believe it has helped me become a better songwriter, mixer, and producer. I'm very grateful for that because this is my passion! I have also, genuinely enjoyed some great songs by a goodly number of members...sometimes this has left me slightly depressed that I'll never be that good 😊, but hey! great songs and performances, freely given for our listening pleasure.

So, like many others it seems, I will dip in and out from time to time, listen, review and post songs in spurts now and again. Best I can manage.

Also, FWIW, I agree that the last thing the forum needs is countless more members, as it will be even more impossible to keep up!

Finally, I am hugely grateful for all the advice, not just on songwriting which many give here feeely. It is a wonderful, positive place.

All the best.
Bill



pompeyjazz

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« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2017, 10:55:55 PM »
Great point Tina. The other 4190 members are currently building me a a huge stage set for my next world tour. Honestly, It's all such a load of bollocks seriously. Tallented songwriters like you and many guys on here should be dominating the publics listening habits but Alas its  2017 and you don't need to think anymore, the media just tells you . I have given up listening to any radio bollocks apart from Marc Riley on r6. Keep going mannnn  :)

boolio

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« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2017, 12:58:05 AM »
Hi Everybody,

And great topic Tina...

I can identify with a lot of what's been said already and with some of Bill and John's points in particular.

in addition I can honestly say that being a member of this forum has been a hugely positive experience for me and whilst life does get in the way, I hope to stick around here for as long I feel I am contributing with submissions and reviews. That said however maybe its not ALL about quantity I could post more songs but they would probably be rubbish and I could review everything but the reviews would lose validity because I wouldn't be listening as carefully as I do if I'm going to commit to posting (sometimes I have to listen three times or more before writing a review)

Anyway in answer to part of the original question I haven't personally had (or expect) any commercial success but I remain hopeful (however unlikely) hopeful in fact, in just the same way that I will stick around here (a lot more likely) and whilst I am on the subject of sticking around I hope all the other regulars do too...well at least those contributing to this thread!  ;)

Peace all

Phil
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 12:59:54 AM by boolio »
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delb0y

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« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2017, 06:41:22 PM »
I can only speak from my own perspective. I wrote my first song around 1976 and my most recent one this year. So it's by no means a temporary hobby - irrespective of whether I'm posting here or not. I don't understand why taking absence from the site equates to giving up song-writing?

As for success - yep, I've had loads. Nothing financial, or contractual, and fame will never beckon. But I've played many of these songs at gigs and open mics and have plenty of positive comments - and even the occasional request for a song people have heard before. That's success to me.

As regards the active membership. Again, it's a personal view, but to me it's a very time-consuming forum thing to participate in properly and we all go through periods in life when spare time is plentiful and others when it is scarce. Depending on priorities we may, or may not, wish to allocate time to the forum. This morning I had two hours free. I spent it practicing the guitar as that is where my priority is at the moment. I'm sure when I get good enough on the guitar not to need to practice any more I'll be back properly  ;)

The other thing, I do (still) find this place intimidating if one isn't in to production. I maintain that song-writing, arranging, and production are separate skills. I don't think I'll ever learn enough about the first to move onto the second, which leaves me feeling like the red-headed stepson, as a famous motorcycle racer once said.

Derek
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pompeyjazz

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« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2017, 10:20:50 PM »
I can totally see where you're coming from regarding the production stuff Del and after all this is a songwriters forum. I like to think that there are guys on here that are coming from all sorts of different angles. I have loved many a song on here with relatively no production and then again detested songs with fab production, though sometimes the mix is just right and hits the spot. Personally I've embraced the product stuff as I find it fascinating although I'm crap at it  :)

diademgrove

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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 11:52:07 AM »
There are a number of reasons why people disappear from the forum.

The first is fairly obvious but needs saying. Songwriting is a craft and a fairly difficult one at that. It is why there are so few successful songwriters. Writing one song is an achievement but 10 or 20 is difficult, especially if you have other things in your life. This forum encourages people to learn their trade in "public". Lennon and McCartney learnt it in Paul's living room in "private". We never heard the songs they thought were poor.

The second is down to the  nature of our community and the need to review other people's work. Some people disappear because its all about them and very quickly discover nobody reviews their work. Other people feel that they don't have the skills to review other people's work, especially if it sounds so much better then their song.

The third is the difficulty of reviewing other people's songs. Reviewing is a craft. We have all heard songs which are poor but reviewing that song in a way that encourages the person to try again and to improve takes skill. Maybe we should be a little more pro-active in teaching people how to review. We do offer advice on all aspects of songwriting and production but very little on reviewing. 

The fourth is disappointment and how you cope with it. You work really hard, think you have a good song and you get no or very little feedback. Some people just give up songwriting whilst others try and try again. Which comes back to point 1.

Finally it comes down to time. Today I've had a morning free. I've reviewed some lyrics, wrote a few things on Facebook and other forums and put down in words my answer to Tina's question. Tomorrow might be different, in fact it will be, its shopping day.

Keith

PaulAds

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« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2017, 12:13:27 PM »
I think most people seem drop in when they are actively writing and have a song to post, often coupled with doing a round of reviews at the same time.  That's why "finished songs" is the daddy, I guess.

Far fewer seem to cover the whole site, unsurprisingly, as it's quite an undertaking.

By and large, if people aren't writing, they probably aren't visiting...there may be loads of dormant accounts, where folks haven't logged in for weeks, months or even years.

Probably just stating the obvious...

I have no idea if any member has had major success.

Mr Blobby had major success.

Maybe we can all learn something from that  :P
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