Finishing Songs

  • 4 Replies
  • 2774 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TKersten

  • *
  • Busker
  • *
  • Posts: 2
« on: April 29, 2017, 11:31:01 PM »
Hi guys,

My name is Tristan (23). I started out learning classical music but I've also been writing (or trying to write) "pop" songs for a few years now. I get a lot of ideas (tend to average between 6-12 every day) which is nice but considering I have literally thousands of ideas by now I have never EVER "finished" a song!

Now what I am well aware of is that, considering my relative inexperience, I can't expect anything decent to be coming out at this early stage and I'm quite happy to just accept that I'll be churning out garbage for a while at first.
This was a helpful video in developing that attitude and I still firmly believe it's the best way to start (even though I can't yet speak from experience, haha):


But my question is, AT WHAT STAGE CAN I LEAVE A SONG AND MOVE ON?
I know I need to "write" lots of songs but I'm not sure when one considers a song "written" or "finished". Does it really have to be completely polished or (considering my quantity-over-quality approach) is there a point before that where they're in a good enough state to be left?
I mean, is this okay?
Maybe it's about demo quality, I'm not sure.
I tend to be moving on when I just have a verse and a chorus roughly harmonised and I've been thinking for a while now that that's just not cutting it at all as it's resulted in me really have no songs to my name in any decent state of completion which is kinda depressing, especially considering that I'm drowning in ideas.
If anyone can give me any advice on this it would be VERY much appreciated!
Thanks and good luck to everyone here,
Tristan

Btw, acoustic guitar and piano are my go-to instruments for songwriting. I don't tend to use any programs but if people think they could provide a more effective approach then I'm open to suggestions ;)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 11:33:12 PM by TKersten »

Yodasdad

  • *
  • Stadium Tour
  • *****
  • Posts: 1044
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 12:06:25 AM »
Hi and welcome,

It all depends what you want from your songs.

I would consider a song complete when the lyrics, melody and chord structure are written and you have a final structure for the song.

It needs to be in a state where if someone wants to listen to one of your songs, you could show them and they would go, yeah that's a song.

If you just have verse and chorus, you've got the main parts of a song but you haven't finalised your ideas and it doesn't exist as a song in a recognisable format.

Beyond this point, you are crossing the very fine line between songwriting, arranging and production - how the music is played and what the end result sounds like.

Some people for example would want to write the exact parts that each instrument plays. Others would consider this an arranging task of a song that already technically exists. Others still might consider it production and be happy for someone else to interpret their chord sequence in whatever way they see fit.

The key is that chord sequence and melody again. If they exist, the song can be realised, they're like your blueprint of the song.

Personally, I like to keep working on a song, writing all the parts, arranging and producing it. Only then do I consider it properly finished, but I know really that it was 'written a long time before this.

There's nothing wrong with a simple guitar/piano for writing your songs. If you start taking it a bit more seriously though you will probably want to invest in some recording software/equipment. They make things a lot simpler and they don't cost the earth these days.

Just get a rough song finished, post it up on this site and people will be happy to give you some constructive feedback.

Good luck.

Yodasdad

Martinswede

  • *
  • Platinum Album
  • ****
  • Posts: 667
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 11:25:47 AM »
Hi!

I think the song example of Strawberry Fields is a finished song
in the aspect of containing the basic elements of the song.
If you compare it to the album version there are of course
major differences.

The hard part that the skilled arranger Yodasdad did not mention
is ones ability to get the sounds in ones head down on tape. And also
that you might not be the one who can make the best out of your
song.

Also there are many ways to play and interpret a song. Each with it's own
strengths.

Martin

TKersten

  • *
  • Busker
  • *
  • Posts: 2
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 11:22:29 PM »
I see guys, thank you both very much for the advice.
For my purposes I think I'll just try and get the lyrics, chords, melody and and structure down and call it there (so pretty much the state Strawberry Fields was in in that demo).
I don't feel the necessity at the moment to take them into those final stages of production and arrangement and stuff like that as they're just practice pieces at the moment and at least I'd know that the basic elements were in place (thereby giving me the necessary material to complete the arrangement if I wanted to).
I might keep an eye out for some programs then too. I don't know many (I use MuseScore for classical composition but that isn't very well suited for songwriting) but I've heard good things about Logic Pro and FL Studio, does anyone know if they're any good?
Thanks ;)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 11:38:39 PM by TKersten »

dill

  • *
  • Busker
  • *
  • Posts: 17
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 02:28:04 PM »
I see guys, thank you both very much for the advice.
For my purposes I think I'll just try and get the lyrics, chords, melody and and structure down and call it there (so pretty much the state Strawberry Fields was in in that demo).
I don't feel the necessity at the moment to take them into those final stages of production and arrangement and stuff like that as they're just practice pieces at the moment and at least I'd know that the basic elements were in place (thereby giving me the necessary material to complete the arrangement if I wanted to).
I might keep an eye out for some programs then too. I don't know many (I use MuseScore for classical composition but that isn't very well suited for songwriting) but I've heard good things about Logic Pro and FL Studio, does anyone know if they're any good?
Thanks ;)
Agreed with the above - the lyrics, chords, melody and structure form the basis of a pop song (this can vary quite dramatically for different types of music!). Once you've settled on those you can generally describe it as finished. Problem is, it's totally down to you to decide when you've settled on it, that's the tricky bit! But yes, for the sort of music you're talking about I think it's fair to consider the actual production and arrangement on a recording as separate from the song itself - to a certain extent.

As for software, Logic is a much better option for recording audio than FL Studio. FL is designed more for making beats, working with samples, and things like that.