Golden Nuggets

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Ramshackles

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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2017, 12:11:16 PM »
Tones golden nugget is a good one :D.

For mine (its hard to choose just one!) - Avoid EQ and effects!

The temptation, especially for newbies, is to throw up a mic, record as quick as possible and then spend hours at the computer adjusting EQ, compression, reverb etc etc. In my experience this never ever leads to a good mix.

Spend a few hours (thats right hours) or more finding the sweet spot in your house/studio/apartment/whatever. Try out all your mic and preamp combinations. Try different spots in the same room, try different mic positions and distances. Aim to find a spot where your guitar and/or voice sounds pretty perfect with *zero* post-processing. Challenge yourself to record a song with no editing or effects at all (save volume adjustments). Stuff like mic position and the type/newness of your guitar strings has a *huge* effect. This will lead to a much better (and easier) mix. It will also have a knock on effect of making you spend more time on improving performance and arrangement.
If it sounds like a lot of work, its because it is - but you only need to do it once! (take pictures/draw diagrams of the sweet spots and setups so you can easily recreate it).

I'm gonna be sneaky and sneak a second tip in - avoid boosting volume when mixing, cut instead.

tone

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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2017, 08:25:18 PM »
Thanks for this Ramshackles! It wasn't until you spelled it out there that I realised how flippin lazy I am when it comes to recording! And when you consider how much work I put into writing the songs, don't you think they deserve a bit of graft when it comes to capturing them. I always told myself performance was everything.

Two questions: does the mic placement advice still hold if you're using a dynamic mic? The reason I tend to avoid my condenser is because it's a bit thin, and my rooms never sound good. Maybe I'm not anywhere near this sweet spot you speak of?

And why cut volume instead of boost? What about fader riding? I NEED TO KNOW MORE PLS ;)
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Ramshackles

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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2017, 01:57:49 PM »
Thanks for this Ramshackles! It wasn't until you spelled it out there that I realised how flippin lazy I am when it comes to recording! And when you consider how much work I put into writing the songs, don't you think they deserve a bit of graft when it comes to capturing them. I always told myself performance was everything.

Two questions: does the mic placement advice still hold if you're using a dynamic mic? The reason I tend to avoid my condenser is because it's a bit thin, and my rooms never sound good. Maybe I'm not anywhere near this sweet spot you speak of?

And why cut volume instead of boost? What about fader riding? I NEED TO KNOW MORE PLS ;)
Lol...I'll try to answer

Dynamic mic placement - essentially, yes, placement makes a difference. Although dynamic mics are heavily directional, the reflections going into the front of the mic can still change depending on where you position it. Having said that, you'll probably find it way less noticeable than on a condenser. Placement on an instrument still matters as well, since the tone of the instrument is different in different places (e.g. listen to a guitar at the neck, the sound hole and the bridge).

All rooms have a sweet spot, but it is 'sweet' relative the rest of the room... a bad room is a bad room  ;D

Volume cuts instead of boosts. Basically this is about maximising your signal to noise ratio.
So, lets say you have recorded with an optimal gain structure - that is the gain on all the elements in your signal chain is the maximum it can be without clipping. So what we have recorded has the best S/N it can.
If you boost, you are going to be boosting noise as well. Lets say you have 5 tracks and 2 or 3 you want louder. You have just boosted noise on those tracks! If you were to cut the other 2/3 tracks instead, your overall noise would be lower for the same relative volumes. Another problem with boosting is that you run the risk of clipping or at least severely reducing your headroom. You'll need that headroom in the mastering stage!
Final reason (and arguably the most important) is that there are so many gain/volume controls in a signal path that it is easy to end up in a situation where you a boosting somewhere, only to cut it later. Once you have done that, the net result is null, but a few dB of precious headroom have been irretrievably nuked :(
If you aim to only ever cut, you are unlikely to encounter the problem.
The same rules apply to EQ, although there are loads of articles detailing other reasons why cutting is better than boosting.

Of course, some laws are made to be broken....

tone

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« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2017, 03:38:41 PM »
Interesting stuff, thanks Ram!

I hear what you're saying about signal to noise, but one thing I've found on instrumental pieces made up purely of sampled instruments is the complete lack of noise almost makes them sound unreal. I've ended up adding room noise to some of my tracks to try to capture the suggestion that a real performance is taking place. Whether it works or not I don't know, but it makes me feel better :D

The trouble with moving a mic around the room until you find a sweet spot is that by yourself it takes twice as long, and I don't have any friends to help me :( Y'all can have a whip-round if you like ;)
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Boydie

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« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2017, 04:06:39 PM »
Quote
The trouble with moving a mic around the room until you find a sweet spot is that by yourself it takes twice as long,

I would just hit record and move the mic around, describing each location

Then play back the recording and choose which location sounds the best

This would still technically be twice as long but less faffing around
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tone

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« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2017, 04:24:50 PM »
That's a really good suggestion! Thanks Boydie! :)
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1st track from my upcoming album -- Click to listen -- Thanks!

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Ramshackles

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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2017, 11:00:46 AM »
Interesting stuff, thanks Ram!

I hear what you're saying about signal to noise, but one thing I've found on instrumental pieces made up purely of sampled instruments is the complete lack of noise almost makes them sound unreal. I've ended up adding room noise to some of my tracks to try to capture the suggestion that a real performance is taking place. Whether it works or not I don't know, but it makes me feel better :D

The trouble with moving a mic around the room until you find a sweet spot is that by yourself it takes twice as long, and I don't have any friends to help me :( Y'all can have a whip-round if you like ;)

Yeah it takes a long time...but you only have to do it once :). Jot down your setup & positioning for your next recordings..

Its mostly electrical noise and other unwanted stuff I was talking about...room noise could be thought of as part of the performance you want to capture  ::)

Martinswede

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« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2017, 05:37:15 PM »
Hi!

Such a good intention for a thread Yodasdad!   ;)

I'm still learning to record after ten years
of home studio projects so I'm not sure if I have
any good advice.

The most valuable lesson I've learned is,
since timing is a hard part for me, to
get a good scratch track.

I've spent a lot of time searching for timing
errors only to find that the problem lies in
the first track of a section. Reverb, eq curves
and mixing levels might be tough decisions but
timing issues are a far more likely cause of
migraine.

Why not use a click track? Well I'm only starting to
get familiar with using it (and a daw that has it)
and I think it's kind of hard to use.

- Martin

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« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2017, 11:36:53 PM »
Mine is a follow on from Martin's post.  Cluck tracks can be a nuisance to play to.  Programme basic drums for 1-2 bars that represent the the rhythm of your song.  Loop what you have programned  for  the duration of the song then play your first instrumental to the loop. It's much easier to play to the repeated drum pattern than to a click track.  You can record multiple instruments to the loop pattern before finally programming a full drum track. . If you've ever fingerpicked guitar to a click track, you'll quickly realise how difficult it can be to maintain a steady rhythm. Played to a loop that is programmed, can be a walk  in the park in comparison.

Paul

Paulski

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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2017, 01:50:54 AM »
Mine is a follow on from Martin's post.  Cluck tracks can be a nuisance to play to.  Programme basic drums for 1-2 bars that represent the the rhythm of your song.  Loop what you have programned  for  the duration of the song then play your first instrumental to the loop. It's much easier to play to the repeated drum pattern than to a click track.  You can record multiple instruments to the loop pattern before finally programming a full drum track. . If you've ever fingerpicked guitar to a click track, you'll quickly realise how difficult it can be to maintain a steady rhythm. Played to a loop that is programmed, can be a walk  in the park in comparison.

Paul
Ooo yeah - I'm going to try that - good one Paul  ;D ;D

Martinswede

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« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2017, 06:49:40 AM »
Thanks for the advice Paul!

This gives me another reason to start programing drums.
Coz who can live without finger picked guitar.

Skub

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« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2017, 08:49:49 AM »
Mine is a follow on from Martin's post.  Cluck tracks can be a nuisance to play to.  Programme basic drums for 1-2 bars that represent the the rhythm of your song.  Loop what you have programned  for  the duration of the song then play your first instrumental to the loop. It's much easier to play to the repeated drum pattern than to a click track.  You can record multiple instruments to the loop pattern before finally programming a full drum track. . If you've ever fingerpicked guitar to a click track, you'll quickly realise how difficult it can be to maintain a steady rhythm. Played to a loop that is programmed, can be a walk  in the park in comparison.

Paul

That's my mode of operation too, much more enjoyable playing with a drum pattern than the non musical click.

Yodasdad

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« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2017, 09:06:20 AM »
Some great advice being generated on here, thanks everyone.

Time I broke the rules.

Assuming we're all working digitally...

When you think you've finished your mix, save it, pull down all the faders and start again. Chances are you'll get a better mix second time.

I find this works well for me as I tend to mix as I'm tracking. Sometimes I'm happy with the results but focussing purely on the mix lets you be more objective about all the different elements, rather than maybe the part you just recorded.

Yodasdad

pompeyjazz

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« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2017, 08:18:13 AM »
Brilliant pieces of advice. Yes - I totally ditched the click track idea ages ago as it's extremely irritating and find I use exactly the same technique as some of you other guys with a basic drum track. I find it really interesting to program the drum track later and often experiment with a few different patterns which sometimes gives a song a totally different dynamic. With regard to Yoda's tip on pulling down all of the faders, that's a brilliant idea as well which I use all the time. I guess I must be doing a couple of things right along with lots of things wrong  :)

Darren1664

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« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2017, 04:48:36 PM »
Hmm this thread led me to doing a little research and i came across this very useless web page...maybe of use to some of us :)

http://edmprod.com/fader-only-mix/