[Mike67]

Do you more experienced guys ever feel overwhelmed by the songwriting and recording process? While I've been writing lyrics for a little while now; although I've only written around 30 in total, writing and recording actual songs is a real challenge. You're really having to master 3 difficult and very different skills. While I love the process, it can be quite daunting as we all want to do justice to the stories we're trying tell, and there's more to go wrong than there is to go right.

Any advice?

Mike

[Wicked Deeds]

Hi Mike,

I've never been overwhelmed by the writing process. However, I never intended to become a producer.  It takes up so much time. I'm too much of a perfectionist to let something go unless it's as good as I can possibly make it so yes, I find my obsessive approach overwhelming, to the point where I will get a pretty bad headache from staring at a computer screen, sitting awkwardly and working tirelessly at music on my days off work.

Paul

[Boydie]

I would definitely suggest breaking things down in to manageable steps

Even the top pros started with zero knowledge!

Step 1
Get your "songwriting chops" up to scratch - ie the lyrics, melody and chords

Step 2
Understand "song structure" and how this can support your song idea - eg if you are writing "pop" you may want a "Verse, Pre-Chorus, Chorus, Verse, Pre-Chorus, Chorus, Bridge, Chorus, Chorus" structure, but if you are writing a "story song" (eg folk or country) then a "Verse, Verse, Verse, Bridge, Verse" structure may support the song better

Step 3
Learn a bit about "songcraft", which overlaps with the first 2 steps but will lead you towards making "the song" the best it can be - eg things like:
Does the title appear in the "right" place?
Is the chorus "hooky" enough?
Does it communicate the message/emotion you intended?
Are the lyrics appropriate for the song - eg "too poetry like" for pop or not deep enough for folk?
Is there enough variation between sections (eg verse & chorus)?
Is there enough "tension & release" in the song
etc. etc. etc.
There is a never ending list of things to learn - and they will be different for every song

Step 4
If you want to record yourself then I would suggest just learning enough to record a decent "working demo" to communicate the song

Eg - if you write on guitar just record a good guitar and vocal version - all you need is a PC/Mac/Ipod etc. , a basic DAW (likely to be free versions available), an audio interface and a mic - you can even record straight to a phone but I would personally advocate trying to record each element on to separate tracks so that you have a degree of control over the balance of volume between elements

This would also open up the option of you (or someone else) building the track up / producing it by adding more elements/instruments but keeping your original vocal (or other instruments) in the mix

I would suggest just focusing your efforts to get to this point - you may be happy with the song in its form at this point

If you want to create a more "radio ready" version, or you want to commercially pitch your song, then there is a good chance you will want it "produced", mixed and mastered

The rest can be either learnt later or "outsourced" to someone else

Step 5
Arrangement / Production - this is where other elements are added to support the song - and often to define the genre - eg if you have an acoustic / vocal demo of a heavy rock song there is a good chance you will want heavy guitars and drums on the "produced" version

Step 6
Mix - this is an art in itself but can be easily learnt

Step 7
Mastering - another art and it is often beneficial for another person to master a track you have produced & mixed
 

There are companies out there that specialize in taking songwriter's songs through Steps 5 onwards

I offer this service myself so feel free to drop me a PM for the special "forum member mates rates" if you are interested 

[Mike67]

Thanks; that's exceptionally helpful.

I'm using Garageband to record and have been jumping right in to the recording process without taking the time to get the song to where it needs to be first.  I've only recorded two so far, and both are simple looped songs, so the real challenge there is getting the production right.  I can hear the songs I want to record in my head, and they're going to be much more challenging.  I think steps 1-4 are as far as I'll be able to the songs myself, and I may well come knocking on your In box.

Thanks for taking the time,

Mike

[Yodasdad]

I do find it overwhelming at times but only in the sense that I just don't have enough time to get all this stuff out and finished.

I enjoy songwriting but I also enjoy the producing/mixing side of creating the finished product.  I can usually get the song finished fairly quickly, in the sense that the lyrics, melody, harmony and structure are all done. I can then spend weeks though getting the song to what I think is finished, as in how I think it should ultimately sound.

If I could be happy with piano, vocals, song done I'd probably have a catalogue of 100's by now but unfortunately it just doesn't work for me

The way I look at it is I'm developing my skills and knowledge all the time, whatever I'm working on but I just have to try to remember not to spend too long on the production side and not forget why I'm producing stuff in the first place.

Like Boydie said, if it's the mixing/producing side of things that's overwhelming you, other people can do this for you, until such a time, if ever, that you want a crack at it yourself.

There's plenty of people in and around this place that can point you in the right direction.

Yodasdad

[boolio]

Hi
Yeah recording is my "bete noire" as I have zero production skills.
Therefore all my songs are essentially live recordings...and all I have to hear is a nanosecond of vocal or a note/chord that I think is imperfect and I have to start from scratch...(and inevitably screw it up some place else!!)

Take 30...

Cheers Phil

[The S]

Overwhelming?

All the time.

It's a lot of shoes to fill and hats to wear.

Songwriter.
Lyricist.
Musician - Guitar/keys/bass/drums/etc...
Arranger.
Producer.
Singer - Performer/Artist.
Mixer.
Critic.

And all of the above squeezed in-between everyday life.

It's an accomplishment in itself just to get one song done. Not everyone can do it. Remember that.

So all of you, give yourself a pad on the back for job well done, you (we) deserve it. 

Only advice I have Mike, and it's a really predictable and boring one sorry, is to just do it. Over and over again, just keep at it, and eventually it'll come a lot easier to you. One thing I usually suggest though is to think of it as painting, only sonically not visually. If you were to start painting, it's a lot easier to look at one painting and try to copy it. Do the same with a song of yours, choose a song you like by any artist of your choice, and try to copy it, form and sonic landscape and you'll get there quicker. Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Peter

[TimCurtis]

When I used to song write with a friend of mine Paul, we always fell into the trap of recording and producing a sing as we wrote it.  With Gaby, we tend to write the lyrics and/or some chords first, then write the whole song on the guitar so we're able to play it 'live' before committing to "tape" (or disk nowadays).  That gives the song time to change/grow/evolve which often gives it more variation and depth.

Once we're eventually happy, we'll record just the guitar and vocals, often just as reminder to what we've done.  I'll then scratch my head for a while and wonder what the heel I can do with it (if anything).  I then back fill drums, bass, other instruments and backing onto the 'live' guitar/vocals.  Helps to have recorded to a click track, but often we don't as we lost all the subtle timing changes and short pauses we've deliberately put in during the writing/performing phase.

It's very much a case of experimenting and not being scared to throw stuff away if it's not right.

The mixing and mastering are jobs in themselves.  I use a bit of software to master for me (AAMS, found here: http://www.curioza.com) as I have no idea where to start.  As far as mixing goes, I just fiddle till it sounds right.  Volume levels, compression levels, EQ (take out frequencies rather than add them, e.g. if guitar is messing up the vocals).  Listen in the car, listen standing outside the room with the door closed, play on as many different speakers as possible.  Again, just try to experiment.  

One word of advice is to try to save each mix you do as a different DAW project file so you cango back to the one you liked last week. Make it the same name as the mp3 (or wav of whatever) then you've exported so you can tie to two together.

But sometimes, it just doesn't need anything else.  Some of the best songs I've heard on here are just vocals and guitar.

[shadowfax]

Just enjoy it mate..no pressure, do it when you feel the need, it's fun