Lyrics first thing boggles my mind

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mikek

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« on: February 17, 2017, 06:20:48 PM »
poking around a bit more on the forum and seeing a surprising number of threads dealing with lyrics and no supporting music.

my writing style is never like that, never.

now i do make notes, but they aren't lyrics, they are ideas.  i have an app on my phone that i use to capture the ideas.  whenever something hits me and i realize, hey what a great phrase/idea that i may be able to turn into a lyric, i poke it into my phone, and it sync's to the cloud.

separately, as i'm sitting around playing the guitar, ideas jump out and i hear a melody.  i hum, or sing nonsense words until something more starts to emerge.  i record the idea, again, on my phone using yet another little app.  then, as i begin working out the lyrics, if i get stuck, i consult my words idea dump and look for help there.

the idea of writing a complete set of lyrics for a tune that does not yet exist seems very foreign to me.
i'm extremely surprised that so many folks write in that manner.

i guess to me, its like the music is the skeleton of the song.  there's not much use for the meat until the bones exist. 
 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 06:28:42 PM by mikek »

adamfarr

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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 06:35:05 PM »
I'm probably slightly in that camp - I'd actually say I'd find it odder to write a melody with no lyrics...

But guess what? I'd say that lots of those lyric writers do have the melody already in their heads or even more complete than that but are just in a phase of working on, testing out and maybe looking for validation or feedback on the lyrics...  Words always suggest a rhythm and often a melody. But of course everyone has their own way and each song reveals itself in a different way and order...

But then why is there a "lyrics" area but no "melodies" area?!

mikek

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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 06:40:50 PM »
I'm probably slightly in that camp - I'd actually say I'd find it odder to write a melody with no lyrics...

But then why is there a "lyrics" area but no "melodies" area?!

haha, you should see the number of lyric free recordings on my phone!

yeah, interesting observation, lyric area and no melody area, hmm.  is that an indicator that i'm in a minority in my approach to writing?  i would have thought the opposite true.

JonDavies

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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2017, 07:20:41 PM »
I tend to mix it up - at the moment I'm in Germany without my guitar or piano, so lyrics are all I can create. I do have a ukalele, but there's only so much I can do with that.

When I write songs lyric-first it tends to go in this sequence

1. I write a line e.g. "My baby came home drunk last night/ obviously she won the bar fight" (I just came up with this forgive me)

2. I read the line normally and think about where the natural stresses are e.g. "My baby came home drunk last night/obviously she won the bar fight"

3. Keeping the natural rhythm of the words in mind, I start jamming chords on my guitar - eventually the melody comes out of that

I agree though it is generally easier for me to write lyrics second

CaliaMoko

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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2017, 08:12:29 PM »
Sometimes I write all the words first (though I never did it that way until I took a six-week songwriting course a couple years ago). I never write the melody first. Often, though, I write both at the same time, or sort of back and forth. I haven't found it necessary to have an instrument at hand to write melodies, but I am heavily dependent on written music. So when I write, I actually write. I keep a pad of manuscript (score) paper on a table next to my bed so I can jot down ideas without getting up.

One drawback to writing without an instrument (for me, that is--people with perfect pitch or who are better at hearing and identifying intervals in their heads don't have this problem): I sometimes slip to the wrong line or space on the staff, which throws off everything beyond that point. Even worse, sometimes I slip back and forth or mis-remember one or more intervals. What happens, though, is the errors frequently lead to an even better melody.

It seems more difficult, to me, to write melody first, as you have to make the words fit within the framework of whatever you've done, whereas it's always possible to craft music to fit whatever you have for words. A lot of times, I'll get my words pretty much done, then read through them while listening to various beat loops and/or chord loops, until I find one or more that "goes with" the words. That usually starts sparking ideas for melodies, too.

The S

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« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 10:34:40 PM »
I'm right with you mikek, 100%!!!  :D

shadowfax

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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2017, 07:45:10 AM »
Yeah..for me it's always..tune first!!..then sing a load of bollocks to it while the song is being developed,
then when it's finished it's still a load of bollocks.. ::) ::)
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mikek

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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2017, 03:07:56 PM »
Yeah..for me it's always..tune first!!..then sing a load of bollocks to it while the song is being developed,
then when it's finished it's still a load of bollocks.. ::) ::)
:D

diademgrove

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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2017, 11:29:36 AM »
Good lyrics are important because most non-singers sing them to a melody they've made up themselves, especially in the shower. It's why some of the greatest melody writers needed a lyricist. Of course some people have it all.

A lyricist can make great music without having to play an instrument or sing, all they need is a pen, paper and someone who can write music.

Keith


Sing4me88

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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2017, 05:00:06 PM »
As a lyricist I obviously work on lyrics first. As has been said already, there's a nascent melody inherent in any set of lyrics in that there tends to be a flow and a rhythm that can be built on and elaborated and turned into a melody. There's natural emphasis in certain syllables and sounds that jump out from a lyric even as a read that helps develop a fairly rudimentary melody. I've recently started trying to top line from existing lyric. Yes its much tougher in that there's a set of words with a certain flow already but as long as scope is left for tweaking here or there it's fine.

Btw when I say top lining I mean very poorly putting words to some random notes. In fairness I think I'm getting better at it but I struggle when it comes to adding chords because of rhythm. The same applies to the bass line I guess too. Oddly enough I think I can write fairly decent single components ie a top line, drumbeat,bass line but I lack the glue to marry it all cohesively in a way that doesn't sound like a toddler mashing away with a jam covered hand on a keyboard....

mikek

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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2017, 05:58:16 PM »
here's how tom petty does it apparently
http://www.miketuritzin.com/songwriting/2009/05/tom-petty/


hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 07:24:22 PM »
Many of us (me included of course) had the capacity to write lyrics long before we had the capacity to write music. 

As for me. . . I still can't play an instrument, and can create music only through the magic of software. 

I've written every way there is to write.  Lyrics first - music then vocal/lyrics - instrumentals -  adding lyrics/vocals to other people's music (with permission of course) - music and melody, then lyrics.  If there is a sequence I have not used. . . it's because I couldn't think of it. 
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mikek

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« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2017, 03:36:07 PM »
Many of us (me included of course) had the capacity to write lyrics long before we had the capacity to write music.  

yeah i find this an interesting situation.  as a child i loved writing.  it was natural to me and all my teachers encouraged me to continue in that direction.  i should probably be writing novels or, at least, research articles and the like, but instead, i work in IT and my true talent in life is lost.  

i only came into writing songs purely by luck.  i played the guitar but had never considered writing a song.  a friend of mine became a big Beatles nut and convinced me to play guitar in a band he was working up.  next thing i knew, i was a songwriter.  glad to have this creative outlet as it is a necessary escape from my otherwise, mundane existence.  

i'm grateful to my old Beatles friend, as otherwise, i would never have discovered songwriting.  it would likely never had occurred to me to even try it.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2017, 07:23:31 PM by mikek »

Mike67

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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2017, 09:34:53 AM »
I almost always tried to write words to a chord progression or riff, but increasingly words and melodies just come into my head, and I figure the chords later. Interesting process.

hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2017, 01:16:26 AM »
I almost always tried to write words to a chord progression or riff, but increasingly words and melodies just come into my head, and I figure the chords later. Interesting process.

Interesting:  I kinda wonder if you haven't just gotten familiar enough with chord progressions that melodies "come to you" with a subconscious application of chords that you just identify later.  If so, I truly envy you.
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