Lyrics first thing boggles my mind

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Bernd

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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2017, 02:25:16 PM »
I actually use three different approaches.

Lyrics first when I have no music except in my mind. I then publish them as such so maybe someone sets them to music.

Lyrics written to music when partners send me their music. Here I insist on havin a vocal line (sung nonsense like "nanana" or so).

Lyrics invented on top of a chord progression - actually a complete backing track - when I create my own music (topline writing which I refuse to do for others because I'm not a singer except when I record my own homemade stuff).

The results differ a lot. When I just write lyrics they tend to be more poetic or better structured and phrased. When I write for others my words just serve their music (attitude, rhythm...). The ones that I'm most proud of are the ones that support the music best like these:

let us party on the beach
let us party in the streets
let us party every night
let us set the nights alight
let us feel the throbbing beat
let us feel the body heat
let's be hot or raving mad
let's be free and get on bad

The tune (of the chorus) has a driving, hammering rhythm and is the same for each two lines, hence the AA BB rhyming. A pity I may no longer provide the recording of the demo. But you may get the idea: not much imagery, no story-telling, just mimicking what the music does.

Cheers,
Bernd
Bernd
good lyricist, mediocre songwriter, lousy musician
likes rock but writes for anybody anyway ;-)

ScottLevi

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« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2017, 10:34:57 PM »
What a fun and informing thread - always nice to see other's approaches.

It kind of boggles me the other way around, guess it's just experience and how you started - soperhaps it's always a good idea to starting somewhere else from time to time and see where it takes you!

I've written poems / raps / lyrics for as long as I can remember, but it's only recently I've started to even consider melody and instrumentation.

For me generally when "making music", it's all about the lyrics; I'm writing things that I have an overwhelming need to shout out loud and the music is just a way of doing that without being sectioned.

More recently I sit around fiddling with my guitar and find some satisfying sounds independent of lyrics - but then just shoehorn these into the lyrics and rhythm already there rather than create a song around it.

All the best,
Scott.

Viva La Stereo

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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2017, 11:14:56 PM »
It's different for me every single time. I don't know what it is I'm even doing half the time, I'm just stumbling around in the dark trying to make sense of things. Sometimes I can write a song in ten minutes, other times it'll take me weeks. I have no real technique whatsoever. But I do write a lot of lyrics. A ridiculous amount, to be honest. Sometimes, if I really feel I've hit on a mood or something, I'll noodle around on a guitar or piano for a while until I find a melody that sticks to them. I'm not a melodist at all, unfortunately. My melodies come about purely by accident. I just sit there shouting into a microphone until something vaguely musical begins to form.

Writing a song is a lot like fishing.

mikek

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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2017, 02:55:26 PM »
Sometimes I can write a song in ten minutes, other times it'll take me weeks.

Writing a song is a lot like fishing.

yeah, weeks is nothing for me.  months and sometimes years, quite literally.  i have a particular song for which i have rewritten the lyrics at least 5 times over several decades.  the song isn't even all that great but it just keeps haunting me.  i finally believe i have it finished as of 2016.

writing songs is truly a lot like fishing.  sometimes i sit down with the guitar and a musical idea with melody just comes out, and if i'm lucky, the hook/chorus phrase. from there its just a matter of time before a complete song emerges.  fish was biting that day!  other times i go for long periods with my line in the water and no bites to speak of, or just pull in a few small perch.  :)

joehoe

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« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2017, 08:54:10 PM »
I actually use three different approaches.

Lyrics first when I have no music except in my mind. I then publish them as such so maybe someone sets them to music.

Lyrics written to music when partners send me their music. Here I insist on havin a vocal line (sung nonsense like "nanana" or so).

Lyrics invented on top of a chord progression - actually a complete backing track - when I create my own music (topline writing which I refuse to do for others because I'm not a singer except when I record my own homemade stuff).



The results differ a lot. When I just write lyrics they tend to be more poetic or better structured and phrased. When I write for others my words just serve their music (attitude, rhythm...). The ones that I'm most proud of are the ones that support the music best like these:

let us party on the beach
let us party in the streets
let us party every night
let us set the nights alight
let us feel the throbbing beat
let us feel the body heat
let's be hot or raving mad
let's be free and get on bad

The tune (of the chorus) has a driving, hammering rhythm and is the same for each two lines, hence the AA BB rhyming. A pity I may no longer provide the recording of the demo. But you may get the idea: not much imagery, no story-telling, just mimicking what the music does.

Cheers,
Bernd

/\THIS/\

This is a very similar approach to how I approach lyrical writing.

Also, I like to start a song from scratch with zero melody.
What I do is, I begin to write down potential lines and general ideas for the song.
Than, I break down the syllables into parts as I am writing trying to discover as many possible different ways to sing the line as possible
Once, I get a vocal arrangement that I like, only then do I begin to write the rest of the song based on the melody I just created. (The melody is normally very easy for my composer/guitarist to write a riff or melody under, because the vocal line has been established and can be heard.)

Lastly, I intend to like riffs that are double the beat of the melody I'm singing on. So, instead of singing on the "beat" I'll sing in between the beat. Doing so doesn't change the vocal melody I wrote the song in, because in essence I am still on beat, the listener is just hearing more music when I'm not singing. This gives me the luxury of accelerating the vocal progression if I want to reach a climax somewhere in the song.

This concept also works well in reverse. Starting really fast and than slowing the song down towards the end for a more rhythmic, driving feel. (Hopefully, I'm articulating this somewhat intelligently. I'm super tired and it's kind of hard for me to explain the concept without writing a book.)

Keep in mind I tend to lean more towards Metal and Hard Rock when I am writing for myself.

Finally, I try (TRY) not too nitpick over the specific lyrics in the songs until I get a vocal progression.
To say I am not normally a "free flow" writer would be an epic understatement. Although, I do employ that style in my songwriting to try to stay as diverse as possible.

But that's me.
Joe. H

tboswell

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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2017, 05:24:40 PM »
I love the magic times when it all comes at once. Lyrics, music, everything.

Such a great feeling when you get that happening!

I always start with a title or hook these days but generally I am melody led.

Skub

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« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2017, 06:07:20 PM »
Tom Petty had it right. There are insights for sure but when a man who writes a good tune or two comments,it has weight.

But, you know, honestly, you do anything you can to make it work.

Martinswede

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« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2017, 08:59:18 PM »
Hi!

It's interesting to think that the way you write
might have a great impact on the finished song.

I see writing the lyrics first as either writing them to
a melody inside your head which means writing simultaneously.
Or giving one self too much freedom by only
following a meter or syllable count.
My point is that there is not so much lyrics without melody
if the lyrics are written by someone with some musical ability.
It is much more common to find music that hasn't been touched by
language.

I usually get a line with melody in my head. I then write down the chords
and figure out what part verse/chorus/bridge that suits that line the best.
If it's a verse part I continue to write words for the verse following those
chords. Maybe one verse per day. Simultaneously I look for chords for the
chorus. Sometimes it comes to mind spontaneously. Some times it takes a
bit of work. That's about it.

Great thread by the way!

Martin

Neil C

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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2017, 09:00:57 AM »
Hi,
I was always found music and melody comes easily so i'd develop the tune first and then struggle to find any lyrics. I found it hard to finish songs, got bored and moved on to the next, not to finish that one easily either.
 
So i've consciously worked on my weakness to turn it on its head. I pretty much force myself to finish a lyric before i pick up the guitar of piano.

This means the lyrics have to stand up on their own and have i think improved as a result. The other advantages are it give its structure, a rhyming and rhythm some content which may lead me towards a musical direction.

However as been said in the end of the day its what ever works for you.   
 :)
Neil
songwriter of no repute..

PaulAds

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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2017, 09:24:54 AM »


I used to invariably start with a finished lyric and then try to find a tune it worked with, but increasingly nowadsys, I will write a few lines and mess about with whatever tune/chords I'm tinkering with and see if I can establish a melody...preferably around some of the best lyrics of what I'd jotted down.

Then I spend quite a while sorting the melody out and lastly re-writing or tweaking the lyric to fit.

For me, this second way works much better.

Great thread, btw  :)
heart of stone, feet of clay, knob of butter

Darren1664

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« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2017, 12:16:07 PM »
Very interesting. I always write lyrics and music kind of simultaneously. The music normally comes first (like a chord of two or a riff etc) then I start with some words over the top and that can then set up or inspire the next section and it evolves from there.

I have never written lyrics first and I am amazed by those that see lyrics and turn them into music. I think I am going to challenge myself someday to give it a go and see what comes of it.

Jenna

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« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2017, 11:03:16 PM »
Being pretty new to this process, I can say at this moment in time that words inspire music development more than music inspires story development. But I have been more of a writer than a musician as an adult. Back in more youthful days, when I was more of a musician than a writer, it was the other way around. Perhaps we use whatever tools we are most familiar with at the time as our starting point and go from there.

As for inspiration, I try to do a little object writing every day and many of my lyrics have sprung from those daily exercises. My challenge is in learning music well enough to turn them into songs. I feel this method would result in a stronger song because you can choose musical phrases to emphasize certain passages. The music is more flexible than the lyrics which require more structure. They have to move the audience, keep them engaged, be predictable and catchy enough to make them want to sing along, and music can be chosen to enhance those effects making it a stronger piece.

Overall, though, I feel approaching songwriting from multiple directions would give an artist more variety in what they produce. It would help keep everything from sounding the same or getting stuck in a rut.