[Paulski]

Hi guys

I always look for a melody line that "sounds" derivative or stolen.
What I mean by that is, the listener says to him/herself:

"I swear I've heard that melody before, but, for the life of me I can't think of the other song it's stolen from"

I look at that as a mark of success.
(Hopefully) it does not exist (note for note) in another song, but it is familiar enough that the listener might remember it. I see so many songwriters that jump their melody lines around with the sole purpose of making it unique but the flow of the song suffers as does its hookiness.

Am I a thief just trying to justify my thievery?  

Would be interested in how others approach melody writing..

Paul

[Wicked Deeds]

Hey Zpaulski,

i mostly write harmony (chords) and melody together. I almost instantly hear the melody in my head then sing it. I'm sure that's because my subconscious produces a stream of notes that I have heard before at some time in my musical journey/education. What is really original anymore?  When I studied music at college, a lecturer once said that there are people who are employed in the music infustry whose sole purpose is to look for for melodies in new songs that are plagiarised. I think it's almost impossible to avoid established melodies. I remember the lecturer saying something like 4-5 consecutive notes that appear in a new songs that are the same as those that occur in a an existing melody are considered as plagiarism.  Wow, that's scary when you stop to think about it!  Paul

[adamfarr]

It's interesting - I never really consciously try to do it - except for those moments of "you know what would sound good here - that chord/that interval" etc. which I will then look up and sneakily incorporate.

I do know what you mean re writers who are very obviously trying to do something non-obvious, for very noble (but not very entertaining) reasons.

The eminent Billy Bragg did once say that he sometimes took a song structure, built another song on top of it, and in the end no-one could tell, like a wooden frame used to help build a stone arch, which noone knew was ever there...

[hardtwistmusic]

Interesting thing I discovered for myself about five years ago.  I have always been able to listen to a few bars of a song and know I liked it.  (not all songs, and not all the time.) 

Some songs, I just instantly knew.  Well, it behooved me (as a songwriter) to figure out logically what it was I was attracted to, instead of just calling it "instinct." 

Turned out (after about three months of probing my own mind) that there were two criteria that a song had to have in order to have that "instant like." 

1.  Had to "feel familiar" while being original.  (That seems like what you are describing.)
2.  It had to go in a surprising direction fairly early in the song to distinguish it from feeling too familiar. 

The surprising direction could be musical, lyrical, or ??   But there had to be a surprise. 

I always try to include a "familiar feeling" AND a surprise direction.  Sometimes it seems to work for me.

[delb0y]

It's strange because logically there must be an infinite number of melodies that we can create with 12 notes, add in repeated notes, and infinity has just got a whole lot bigger (yeah, I know) and then start dropping different harmonies and chords below the melody and infinity could almost go on for ever. And all of that without touching "blue" notes or using a sitar.

Yet, in the brief time man has being writing melodies we do seem to have settled on a few restrictions that narrow that infinity somewhat - certain melodic fragments / chord changes / combinations do seem to crop up a lot. And I think with good reason. They're nice to listen to. They resonate. They touch a chord (excuse the pun) inside.

It ought to be remarkably easy to write stuff that is so "out there" that the likelihood of anyone ever having done it previously is slim (although with the amount of material created every year, not beyond the realms of possibility) but would anyone like it or want to hear it a second time?

To answer your question - my approach is based around root notes, arpeggios, and chord tones, all closely spaced. But that's a limitation of my singing ability and musical imagination rather than any noble (or ignoble) melodic intent.

Derek

[pompeyjazz]

This should be interesting (or maybe a total load of b******s) 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2017/09/secret-science-pop

[Paulski]

Good discussion guys.
As far as coming up with an "original" melody, I think it's almost impossible.
You can Google a lyrical hook and be pretty confident that it is unique based on the results - but I guess the technology isn't there yet to google a musical one. How can I be sure my new melody line isn't something I heard on an elevator 20 years ago and has been parked in a dusty corner of my brain ever since? But is it really a crime to use it, if it has been used before? There are all kinds of other inventions that are in the public domain and are free to use by anyone. Maybe it's time common melodies should be made public and save all this litigation crap 

[JonDavies]

This is a constant paranoia of mine - I sometimes find myself writing down lyrics while listening to another song and it causes real problems when trying to set a melody to them - they only seem to fit the song I was listening to!

In theory there should be a finite number of melodies - obviously you can always hold notes longer, but there is a limit to that approach. Certainly there are motifs that are reused time and time again to mark the ends of choruses etc but it's a tricky problem.

I was actually thinking this earlier today - the pre-chorus to Shape of You by Ed Sheeran sounds a little like the chorus of No Scrubs by TLC

[tboswell]

I really don't worry about this at all. I know I have sections in my songs that remind me melodically of other things.

There is one I wrote where there is a short bit that seems taken from "Woman in Love", the rest of the song is original and it fits, it just came out that way. On to the next song!

One interesting case is the Oasis song Step Out

Noel wrote it and just sang the chorus to Alright (Outa Sight) by Stevie Wonder and could just never could quite change it. This seems a dangerous approach to starting writing a melody.
I think he ended up having to give co-author credits to Stevie.
Whoops!

At least he admitted it, repeatedly it seems!
http://www.musicradar.com/news/guitars/blog-noel-gallaghers-greatest-lifts-176554