[Neil C]

For what it's worth I've been on a few run be known professional artists/songwriters, who catered for all sorts:from those who never written a song or played an instrument through to expirienced amateurs looking to make it, in various styles. No expieience required and no musical theory tought, rather an intensive exploration of various approaches ( concept/lyric first/rhyming scheme, structure and form etc ) by writing new songs with someone and then played back to all via show and tell for constructive grouo feedback
Intensive, creative, learning and fun.
Hope that give you food for thought.
 
Neil

[boolio]

...There was a lot of tongue in cheek in my last comment, honestly I do understand the need for at least a modicum of music theory knowledge for effective songwriting. Also the way Neil described the approach of some of the courses that he'd attended (as intensive group feedback sessions) does make them sound less likely to militate towards the formulaic.... after all I believe the songwriting process often shared between Lennon and McCartney (to name but two) could've been described thusly 

but I DO still question the use of the word 'workshop'  for me it sends out all the wrong vibes

 

Phil

[GuyBarry]

This is a forum. Everyone has their own ideas, much of which is based on a great wealth of experience. If you don't like hearing members' opinions, maybe you should stop asking for them.

Indeed.  I think the opinions that I get from face-to-face interaction with other musicians are far more valuable than most of the stuff I get here.  When I perform to people, I get positive feedback.  When people listen to my CDs, I get positive feedback.  When I speak to the management at the Rec House where I perform, I get positive feedback.  When I attend meetings of Bath Songwriters, I get positive feedback.

The only negative involvement is from this forum.  Doesn't that say a little bit about your attitude?

[GuyBarry]

Actually Guy, a good song does not have to be a fun song. It can be very depressing, it can be a dirge, it can be Rap, it can be Grime. In fact it can be flipping anything the writer wants it to be.

Yeah.  And that's the point at which I stop listening to it.

I write songs to entertain other people.  Hopefully they do.  I'm not claiming to be a fantastic entertainer but at least I give it a go.  I stand there on stage and I try to give them a good time.

And that's all I do.

[pompeyjazz]

I get positive feedback and constructive criticism on this forum and I value the constructive criticism greatly. In fact I would like to think I've learned something from it which surely what this forum is all about

[GuyBarry]

I get positive feedback and constructive criticism on this forum and I value the constructive criticism greatly. In fact I would like to think I've learned something from it which surely what this forum is all about

Well it's up to you really.  I don't like depressing music.  I avoid it like the plague.  I have a medical condition that makes me feel depressed quite often so I make sure that everything I listen to and compose is "fun" stuff.  It's therapeutic.  If I didn't compose all my fun songs, I'd lose the will to live.  That's really serious and it's what keeps me going.

[tone]

Indeed.  I think the opinions that I get from face-to-face interaction with other musicians are far more valuable than most of the stuff I get here.  When I perform to people, I get positive feedback.  When people listen to my CDs, I get positive feedback.  When I speak to the management at the Rec House where I perform, I get positive feedback.  When I attend meetings of Bath Songwriters, I get positive feedback.

As you were keen to point out in a previous thread, which progressed in a very similar fashion to this one. You're so happy to point out the lack of value yet get from our community yet here you still are...

The only negative involvement is from this forum.  Doesn't that say a little bit about your attitude?

It says more about yours Guy, and your definition of negative. Disagreeing with people is part of life, and doesn't have to be done in a rude or disrespectful way. You seem incapable of grasping this particular nuance.

[GuyBarry]

Indeed.  I think the opinions that I get from face-to-face interaction with other musicians are far more valuable than most of the stuff I get here.  When I perform to people, I get positive feedback.  When people listen to my CDs, I get positive feedback.  When I speak to the management at the Rec House where I perform, I get positive feedback.  When I attend meetings of Bath Songwriters, I get positive feedback.

As you were keen to point out in a previous thread, which progressed in a very similar fashion to this one. You're so happy to point out the lack of value yet get from our community yet here you still are...

I'm only still here because certain members have asked me to stay.

[GuyBarry]

Just turned on Radio 2 and it's Madness with "Embarrassment".  How appropriate!   

P.S. I do have a sense of humour you know.

[GuyBarry]

Do you think people would want to attend a course of that type?

In all honesty, probably not. Maybe you should research what approaches other paid-for songwriting workshops are using and see how closely your ideas match?

And maybe, Anthony, they're just coming out with a load of formulaic stuff and overloading an already over-crowded market?

Just a thought.

[tone]

And maybe, Anthony, they're just coming out with a load of formulaic stuff and overloading an already over-crowded market?

Just a thought.

That is a possibility. Really it leads back to Boydie's point earlier. To determine whether there's a demand for learning songwriting in the way you intend to teach it, it might be worth your while doing a little research before going ahead.

Well it's up to you really.  I don't like depressing music.  I avoid it like the plague.  I have a medical condition that makes me feel depressed quite often so I make sure that everything I listen to and compose is "fun" stuff.  It's therapeutic.  If I didn't compose all my fun songs, I'd lose the will to live.  That's really serious and it's what keeps me going.

I'm sorry to hear you have a medical condition. I can empathise. I have one too. But you seem like an intelligent person, so I can't understand how your point of view is so obtuse (unless it's deliberately so). Just because it's not your cup of tea, doesn't mean a sad song can't be good. Music is great therapy, and I'm glad it works for you, but it seems like a real shame to let your need for fun to narrow your mind in this way. I'm not asking you to listen to grime, or to risk triggering a depressive episode. Just open your mind enough to see that the world is much bigger than your experience, and that's ok. There's much that's good out there, and it's ok that you don't like it. Except when you come to a forum, ask for advice, and then take an attitude to people who responded genuinely because they want to help.

I'm only still here because certain members have asked me to stay.

I wasn't implying that you're not welcome - you're very welcome. What I should have said plainly is that posting about how unhelpful you find the forum comes across as pretty rude, especially in a thread you started specifically to ask for help.

The quote above falls into this category. I think you'd enjoy it much more if you're were here because it's a great community and resource.