konalavadome

Strings tips

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adamfarr

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« on: December 29, 2016, 12:02:55 PM »
Oh no, the Viscount has pointed me in the direction of some bargain midi orchestral strings and I now think I am freaking Beethoven...

Stand by for overproduction! And cheese!

Any tips on how to work with them? My instinct is to have separate tracks (up to 5, I would say - 1st Violins, 2nd Violins, Violas, Cellos and Basses). So I have control over each one in terms of volume, panning and effects. But how many instances of the plugin can I have open at once without everything crashing? I have also seen midi tracks with stacks of signals but that seems like a bad idea... Or can I use different midi channels within the same track?

All good fun so far though (for me).

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Radio

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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 12:09:52 PM »
Mmm strings ..............

Good idea to keep them seperate. I must admit, when I hear songs with stings in I tune in and pay attention more, assuming its done well of course.

Boydie

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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 12:27:21 PM »
I would definitely recommend separate tracks for a number of reasons

To create a "convincing" sound you do not want each instrument playing the exact same thing - even if they are the same notes make sure to not use a direct copy of the MIDI

Either play it again or tweak the MIDI so that there are subtle variations

When you have your (different) MIDI recordings done I would then go through each track and apply some automation individually to each track

I usually do this by playing the MIDI track and then "perform" the automation - e.g. subtle volume swells to match the performance and "modulation" using the controllers on my keyboard

If you have any "keyswitches" on the VST then you can use these to customise the performance even more with specific playing tricks for different parts

Having the audio on separate tracks also means you can process the tracks slightly differently (e.g. EQ) to make sure they fit together in the mix - you can also pan them independently when creating your soundscape

You will have LOTS of fun and lose many hours!!
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tone

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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2016, 08:21:40 PM »
You could do a lot worse than watching this 40 min tutorial - covers so much of the essentials for making it all sound real :)



[edit]

And here's another really good one by the same person

« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 10:24:42 PM by tone »
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adamfarr

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« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2017, 01:38:18 PM »
Thanks Tone, these are brilliant.

Boydie - I think you are saying one track not per section but per "player" is that right? So if we have e.g. 4 first violins then really we should have 4 different tracks to give a more realistic sound and so on for each section...

Boydie

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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2017, 01:50:18 PM »
If you are looking to make it as realistic as possible then yes

However I think you would get away with a "backing" set of 3 playing the same thing and then have a single "lead" instrument in each section with some variations in a dense "orchestral" arrangement

In my own arrangements I only have around 6 string instruments so I do take the time to make each one "unique" - even intentionally programming the odd mistake (e.g. Exaggerated timing issues), which add to making it all sound "real" and not just a static synth pad

The most important thing (IMHO) is to "think" about the instrument you are trying to emulate as you play - even if you are playing keyboards to record think about the bow action and the subtle variations these introduce - especially with volume - and also the very subtle pitch variations as a string player "wiggles" their fingerboard finger on longer notes
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Johnnyuk

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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2018, 07:29:43 PM »
Hi,
Checkout this link below. It gives you an insight into where each instrument is placed which should help to keep your arrangements realistic.
Johnny :)

http://hormanviolinstudio.com/post/160343807248/awesome-article-about-instrument-placement-in-a

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2018, 08:01:59 PM »
Boydie and JohnnyUK, apporach it like I do, First know where the instruments are located, then I imagine I'm a conductor of an orchestra, think where they are and how many there are, if I'm doing strings and/or orchestral stuff, I imagine the instruction to players. It's also really important to know the range of a flute, or cello, it's a common mistake to play a note that it cannot play.

Then I have separate midi channels for each instrument, Independence pro can deal with this very well indeed.

A good piece to start to practise with is the opening to Romeo and Juliet by Prokoviev...

Good luck

cpm

jacksimmons

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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2018, 09:55:28 PM »
What strings did you get? And most importantly are they still a bargain 😊
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Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra

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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2018, 09:23:50 AM »
They're Sonivox....they're not great I don't think and no multiple output so a pain in the arse. They're currently 60 bucks or so and we got them for a quid so couldn't say no. Not worth 60 bucks for me.

This pricing thing's a lark isn't it? You've got to wonder when they start practically giving things away or drastically cutting the price whether they really justify their normal price tag.

I notice for example they've currently got Izotope Nectar 2 at 99 bucks. Normally 299. So what is it really worth?

I haven't got any money anyway so it's immaterial to me....just boggles my mind.
Take it easy.

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Johnnyuk

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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2018, 07:27:52 PM »
Hi,
I'd also like to add....
When using strings in an arrangement created in a DAW you might have to go in there manually and slide them back a little so they come in in time. Some string sounds do not sound right if quantized because of this. So if that happens for you just highlight all the midi notes for it, take off the quantize function and slide them back ever so slightly until they sit right.
Johnny :)

cowparsleyman

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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2018, 08:36:50 AM »
Hi

My strings tips #2 is fresh off doing a couple of songs with Strings in, and they were rather exposed, so this is what I learned over and above of the tips earlier on.

1. Often string samples are polyphonic, that is it's not just one violin, but more, so bare that in mind with the notes you pick.
2. I think a couple of others have mentioned this but don't quantize everything, it makes for a much more realistic sound
3. Give it a reality check.
4. Think of how an orchestra really plays, the notes very often overlap, so be aware of this in the midi editor.

Hope this helps

cpm




steevm

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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2018, 07:11:21 PM »
This isn't what you're asking, but is a tip. The trick to programming any type of sound - be it strings, drums or guitar - is to understand how the instrument is played. You will write much more convincing parts if you are imagining yourself as the musician playing the part. You want to be telling your sequencer what movements the player is making, and to be able to do that, you need to be able to feel that motion.

The only way to do that is to play the instrument for real. So if you've never played any bowed string instrument in your life, borrow a violin from a friend, and play around with it for a few weeks. The idea here isn't to become a good violin player, but to internalise the motions you need to make in order to produce a sound with the instrument. To understand the limitations of the instrument and the physical limitations on playing. You translate this motion into MIDI through articulations, expression/volume, manual placement of notes and lengths, pitch bend etc.

With bowed instruments, for example, you can't bow indefinitely in one direction. At some point you need to reverse direction. If you can tell your sequencer when that is happening, your parts will come to life. Different types of articulations require different hand movements. When you play stabs, there's a lot more movement in the bowing arm. That takes time. There are no frets; you can slide. Vibrato is essential, and normally best done manually rather than with the pitch wheel.

Ensemble patches hand have their place for "filling up the sound". You will get much better results if you program each instrument in the ensemble separately though. If you're going full orchestral, you can always do 1st, 2nd and 3rd violins as their own tracks, and then have a violin ensemble for the rest, for example.

At any rate, no matter how good the library, convincing strings are all in the programming and it can be quite labour-intensive.

None of this is necessary for pop strings of course.

Yodasdad

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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2018, 01:17:02 AM »
Some great tips here.

I've yet to achieve a completely realistic strings sound that I'm happy with, and to be honest I don't think I ever will, it just ain't the real deal.

However,

The general way I do it is:

I write in a minimum of 3 parts; SAT, sometimes SATB, SSAT, SSAAT, SSAATB ETC

I then double, triple, quadruple etc each part, using different patches, articulations etc.

Pan each part to its own space, depending on how big I want the strings sound to be

If I've got bass guitar, make sure this and cellos/basses (T/B) aren't fighting each other.

Add in dynamics and modulation to try to emulate real strings players.

As others have said, easy on the quantise, line things up by ear.

Eq to bring out or blend different parts.

I some times add a little ensemble or chorus effect to some of the patches to 'create more players'

Sometimes I'll add in a generic 'strings' patch as well, playing quite chordally, to add some body to the sound.

Yodasdad