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Skub's DAW learning curve. Roll up,Roll up!

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Skub

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« on: December 04, 2016, 09:51:29 PM »
And by proxy perhaps others too will benefit from the well trodden path to enlightenment.  :)

I have many questions to ask of the knowledgeable and instead of polluting my thread in finished songs,I thought it may be best to relocate the nerdery to these hallowed walls.

Using the song 'Listen' as an example and following advice given on the thread I have made some changes within my capability.

1. I necked the double vocal with added chorus,but I cheated a little by using another track with duplicate settings and panned 10 right and left.  :D It does sound more natural,but a little fuller.

2. The drums are up a bit in volume and on separate tracks + panned slightly.

3. I've left out Vicki's 'but'.  :D

The other stuff is beyond my ken at the moment. I had a little play with the compressor last night and honestly,my ears just went and I had to walk away.

I could hear the threshold making it lighter or darker sounding.

The ratio thing I'm not sure of.

Attack,I get as when the compressor kicks in. This is familiar from my guitar pedal usage.

Gain turns the overall volume up or down.

So should I be twitting about with a compressor at this stage,or are there other areas I'd be best working on first?

Here's the altered track...prolly little bloody difference!  :D

Edited once again,as the learning continues.

https://soundcloud.com/skub1955/listen-1/s-f26hr
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 01:40:01 PM by Skub »

ScottLevi

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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2016, 10:01:55 PM »
Quote
1. I necked the double vocal with added chorus,but I cheated a little by using another track with duplicate settings and panned 10 right and left.  Cheesy It does sound more natural,but a little fuller.

Is this simply recording a vocal track, copying it then panning one left and the other right? Sounds like something even I could try!

Sounds good btw, subtle difference on the vocals but I believe that it's an array of subtleties that take it up a level, rather than one big trick?

Skub

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« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2016, 10:06:45 PM »
Quote
1. I necked the double vocal with added chorus,but I cheated a little by using another track with duplicate settings and panned 10 right and left.  Cheesy It does sound more natural,but a little fuller.

Is this simply recording a vocal track, copying it then panning one left and the other right? Sounds like something even I could try!

Sounds good btw, subtle difference on the vocals but I believe that it's an array of subtleties that take it up a level, rather than one big trick?

Yeah,just a duplicate track with the same settings,Scott.

Boydie

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« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2016, 10:48:56 PM »
I think your first steps should be to concentrate on balancing volumes (faders), panning and EQ

Then play around with reverb to add space and this will give you plenty of tools to create a great mix

COMPRESSORS
As part of my "tutorial" plans I have been thinking through how best to explain compressors as they are nothing scary (or special)

The best way I can think of explaining it is to treat a compressor as an assistant that is moving a fader to smooth out the volume variations in a track (i.e. make the really loud bits a bit quieter and turn up the quiet bits)

If you think this through you can work out what the controls on the compressor do by thinking about what you would need to tell your assistant:

I.e.

How loud the volume needs to get before it needs turning down - which is the "threshold" in "compressor speak"

How much to turn it down when the volume goes over this level - which is the "ratio"

How quickly to turn it down when the volume goes over the level - which is the "attack" time - e.g. You may want to wait until just after the first bit of the loud part to allow it to make an impact before reducing the level - such as a kick drum or snare hit

How long to turn it down for before returning the volume to normal - which is the "release" time

When you have been turning the loud bits down you may want to increase the overall level level of the track (especially as the loud bits are now quieter so you can turn it up a bit louder) - this is the "make up gain" or "output" level

Many compressors now have a DRY/WET control, which allows you to have "parallel compression" (often referred to as "New York Compression"

This is nothing fancy - it just mixes the original (DRY) signal with the compressed (WET) signal

This allows you to heavily compress (make everything the same volume so it is really "in yer face") and then mix it with the original signal to put some dynamics back in. This is a trick that works really well on drums

I will go into more detail when I get around to writing some proper content but this should give you a taste of how a compressor works
To check out my music please visit:

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Skub

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« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2016, 11:32:16 PM »
Ta Paul,I'll digest all that for a while before hitting you with another raft of daft queries.

Panning and EQ first then. I've been doing the panning bit,but maybe I lack a definite method. If I have two guitar tracks,fer instance I will pan one left and one right. I do this until it sounds about right to my old ears..usually around + or - 10/15 per side. More than that tends to make my ears go funny.

That may work for those two instruments,but balancing everything in the whole track is less straightforward. What do you keep in the middle,are there times when panning is a no-no?

EQ. I know nothing.  :)

Boydie

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« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2016, 08:17:48 AM »
I would actually suggest getting your head around EQ before panning

I will go in to a lot more detail when I start writing content but to start you off here is a quick guide...

Record all of your tracks and make sure they are all panned dead centre

Decide on the priority of elements - the vocals usually have top priority

As a general guide ALWAYS use a High Pass Filter (HPF) to take the low frequencies away from non-bass instruments (vocals, guitars, pianos, keyboards etc.) - this will start clearing space in your mix, without really affecting the sound of your instruments

Then experiment with making cuts in the guitar frequencies by using an EQ to "notch out" frequencies to make space for the vocal and other instruments - e.g. You may want to cut a different range of frequencies from each guitar - this will not only make space for the lead vocal but it will also make the guitars sound slightly different and let them make space for each other

This would be best demonstrated in a video so I may start with this one...
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

jacksimmons

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« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2016, 07:49:44 PM »
Boydie, every time I read one of your posts I feel like I come away with a wealth of new knowledge. I've only ever put a high pass filter on vocals before now. Your posts are pretty invaluable so thank you.
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Boydie

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« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2016, 08:02:10 PM »
Thanks JACK

I spent a lot of time learning this stuff - but it struck me that most books/videos assumed that you already had a good bit of knowledge

I plan on devising a tutorial from absolute beginner (someone who has never used a DAW or done any recording) right through to producing radio ready demos - covering both the production and songwriting/music theory sides
To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

Skub

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« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2016, 10:04:21 PM »
The only thing I can find in G/B is a High cut filter in the automation drop down,I take it that's the same as a high pass filter Paul? It appears to take the vocal from 'squeaky telephone' to muffled and bassy.

Seems to help the vocal sit in the mix better,by hoofing the low end a little.

Boydie

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« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2016, 10:21:22 PM »
A high cut filter is the opposite to a high pass filter

A "high cut filter" cuts the higher frequencies and lets the lower frequencies pass through (so it is also referred to as a low pass filter or LPF)

A "high pass filter" or HPF (also referred to as a "low cut filter") cuts the lower frequencies and lets the higher frequencies pass through - often cutting the low frequencies that are not always audible but contribute to pushing the meters up
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Skub

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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2016, 08:13:01 AM »
A high cut filter is the opposite to a high pass filter

A "high cut filter" cuts the higher frequencies and lets the lower frequencies pass through (so it is also referred to as a low pass filter or LPF)

A "high pass filter" or HPF (also referred to as a "low cut filter") cuts the lower frequencies and lets the higher frequencies pass through - often cutting the low frequencies that are not always audible but contribute to pushing the meters up

Ah.

Yer a gem Paul. That may explain when I tried the high cut filter on a bass track I could hear no difference! At least I'll give you all a laugh during my apprenticeship!  :D

Edit..now that's funny. I could have sworn I'd used a high cut filter on a vocal track last night,but I used a low cut filter instead,so my ears were right even if I didn't know what the hell I was doing!  ;D
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 08:19:09 AM by Skub »

Skub

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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2016, 08:23:37 AM »
Would I be correct in assuming all the eq work should be done before any effects,such as reverb/delay are laid on? Or is it usual to need more eq tweaks after applying effects?

ScottLevi

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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2016, 09:21:34 AM »
Sorry still tagging along, super helpful stuff aha.

Am I right High pass filter low pass filter sounds like it's just preset EQ? I know in audacity you can drag the EQ to cut out high/low frequency so is this the same thing?

Boydie

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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2016, 09:56:18 PM »
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Would I be correct in assuming all the eq work should be done before any effects,such as reverb/delay are laid on? Or is it usual to need more eq tweaks after applying effects?

I would answer this with a "yes, but..."

Within a DAW there are basically 2 ways to apply an effect such a reverb and delay

1 - An "INSERT" effect

2 - A "SEND" or "FX BUS"

The second option is the correct more accepted way of approaching fx such as reverb and delay

This involves setting up BUSSES and SENDS, which can get a little confusing so I would actually say to not worry about this until you want to take your mixing to the next level (which at your rate won't be long!)

The main advantage of this approach is that you send your tracks to a common fx (such as reverb) which serves a number of purposes:

1 - sharing the same reverb across all tracks puts everything in the same space - which helps glue things together

2 - as you are only loading one effect on the fx bus you can send all tracks to this bus, which saves on CPU

3 - you can process the actual effect - eg applying EQ to the FX BUS - such as adding a High Pass Filter to a reverb to stop the reverb making the mix muddy (eg the "Abbey Road" techniques discussed here: http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11926.0


From your description I am assuming that you are using an "INSERT" effect, where you are putting the effect on the track you want to process - so if you have 4 tracks that you want to add reverb to, you are adding 4 separate reverbs (or the same reverb 4 times)

This has a similar end result but this approach uses more CPU resources

If you are using this approach (which is fine for now) then I would say you are correct to do the EQ before the reverb - however, there are no rules so if it sounds better doing after - do it!

Quote
Am I right High pass filter low pass filter sounds like it's just preset EQ? I know in audacity you can drag the EQ to cut out high/low frequency so is this the same thing?

A High Pass Filter is generally a function within the EQ that takes out the low frequencies as you drag it across the frequencies from low to high - if you drag it all the way to the high frequencies you will here just the very high frequencies

When I get around to creating the videos it will be really easy to demonstrate

To check out my music please visit:

http://soundcloud.com/boydiemusic

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoydieMusic

Skub

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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2016, 10:18:30 PM »
I will read this many times in the coming days.......I'll have to,if it's ever to go in my overloaded processor.  :D

Ta Paul.