[Melons]

Hi,
I have recently been approached by an artist abroad through a friend, who is quite well known overseas and has been for sometime now. So he has a decent following and has definitely made money from music.

I have sent him a couple of songs, which he likes. He said he would like to do renditions of them. Meaning I still own the song, but for his 'rendition', he wants 50% of the publishing.

I wrote every lyrics of the songs to guitar. He will now go and get them produced, record, and his label and team will push it and get it heard.

Would you give away 50% of your publishing? They will definitely be putting a lot of effort into this.
This would be my first official release as a songwriter too.

I am also very sceptical of the agreement he sent me, as he wanted to say he was also a co-writer!
But he has since agreed that I can amend whatever I want.

I have no publisher so this would be a songwriter - artist contract? Or would my contract need to be with his label? And so far why is it only an agreement?

Complicated stuff! Anyone with any words of advice please do share them with me!

[S.T.C]

Would you give away 50% of your publishing? They will definitely be putting a lot of effort into this.
This would be my first official release as a songwriter too.

Yes to right artist , but if the songs were great ,the artist would have to be pretty good also.
Maybe offer a 30% deal? but only if you know they will honour what they said they will do..there is also the the fact like you say it would be good for your credibility.

So you can refuse to give away anything and risk it going cold, give too much away .then you find you don't have control over your work.

[Boydie]

Would you give away 50% of your publishing? They will definitely be putting a lot of effort into this.
This would be my first official release as a songwriter too.

Absolutely - if you have no track record I would personally recommend agreeing to the terms offered

The WORST thing that can happen is that the song will be a huge hit and you will miss out on some £$£$£ - but you will be the writer of a huge hit, which IMHO is more important than money at this stage in your career

This is probably unlikely (which reduces the worst case scenario) but you will still be a published writer with a cut (officially released song)


Have you joined a PRO yet? - if so you will need to do this as a matter of urgency

The cheapest way to get advice on contracts and general "industry advice" is to join the Guild Of International Songwriters & Composers: http://www.songwriters-guild.co.uk/

Membership includes advice on contracts, deals and a copyright service

Please don't lose this opportunity over being too precious about "what might have been" - as the chances are it will not happen (and I think the positives outweigh the negatives in the potential worst case scenario!!!)

Good luck and please let us know how you get on

[MartynRich]

I would personally recommend you give it a shot. The chances of getting a deal are rare and if the singer is well known then you have nothing to lose. Giving away 50% of your publishing is actually not a bad deal as a first contract...some companies may give you far less of a cut. However, as Boydie said, get the contract checked out by a lawyer BEFORE signing anything - joining the GISC is a good way to get this for a fair price.

[Melons]

Thanks for your advice guys.

Boydie, what do you mean by joining a PRO?

I will definitely consider a subscription for the songwriters guild. It looks like a complicated website though, is it pretty straight forward once a member? Would i just upload a copy of the agreement for someone to read and review?

I may just accept the 50% publishing, but as long as I get all the songwriting credits!

[tone]

Boydie means you should join a Performing Rights Organisation. Here in the UK its PRS for Music. If you're in the states I think it's ASCAP (there may be others)

As for sharing credit for the song, it's more common than you think. And honestly, once the song's out there, you'll still know you wrote it - does it really matter if the few people who bother to check think you only co-wrote it? I'm not saying I think it's fair or that I agree, I'm just suggesting that it might be a sacrifice you have to make for a known artist to record and perform your song.

Good luck with it

[Sing4me88]

50% of the royalties from a song that is making money is more than 1005 of a song that ins't. It might not be 'fair' but this is fairly standard in the industry - some artists and producers get their co-writing credits very, very easily but they know they can on the basis they'll sell copies of the song and make everyone credited money.

If you don't have any notions of making money from the song or going down the commercial route you can easily say no but if you do this is a damn good opportunity to get a 'name' even if it involves having to give up a %to do so.

[Bernd]

> Would you give away 50% of your publishing? <

YES

You'll have to join your PRO anyway, how else do you think royalties are handled.

Seize your chance, and good luck!
Bernd

[Melons]

Hey everyone,

Thanks a lot for your feedback.

I am happy to split 50%, but does he have to be down as a co-writer to get a piece of the publishing? Can I state on the contract that I'm giving 50% to him but I'm the sole writer?

Also, aren't contracts usually dealt with AFTER the song has been recorded and produced?

[S.T.C]

50% is 50% i'm afraid , they're offering you 50% of the money for half the rights to your song..if you agree to their terms, you surrender half the song...but ,like as been stated go for it...just write something new that's good again.

[Boydie]

I am happy to split 50%, but does he have to be down as a co-writer to get a piece of the publishing? Can I state on the contract that I'm giving 50% to him but I'm the sole writer?

I would suggest checking the terminology they are using and what they mean - I actually think they probably want 100% of the publishing, which represents 50% of the total income from the song

Let me explain...

When you write a song you own 100% of the writer's share and 100% of the publisher's share

Generally speaking the income generated by a song is divided equally between the writer's share and the publisher's share - so if you sold a song for £1 you would get 50p as the writer and 50p as the publisher

So in this example 50p = 100% of the writer's share and 50p represents 100% of the publisher's share

When you sign a publishing deal you usually give away 100% of the publisher's share, which equals 50% of the total income the song generates

You need to be totally clear if they are wanting the 50% of the total income of the song (ie 100% of the publisher's share)

OR

Do they want 50% of the writer's share (your share) as well?

In this case they would take 100% of the publisher's share, which represents 50% of the total income the song generates (which is normal for a publishing deal) AND they would get 50% of the writer's share (if you split the writer's share equally)

In this scenario for every £1.00 the song generates the publisher would get 0.50p, the artists would get 0.25p and you would get 0.25p

I still think this is a good deal for an unknown writer looking for a break - in this case the artist would likely go down as a co-writer. You could ask to be listed as the only writer but still agree to give him 50% of the writer's share

Also, aren't contracts usually dealt with AFTER the song has been recorded and produced?

No - it is never too early to get these things sorted out - imagine if they spent thousands getting the song recorded & produced and you then refuse the deal they are offering! Getting everything signed, sealed & delivered early is a good sign that you are dealing with experienced people


All of the above only comes in to play when the song starts making money

Even the worst case scenario above would give you 25% of the income from the song - this is better than 100% of nothing for a song sitting on your PC that may never see the light of day

[Melons]

Cheers Boydie, I knew you would respond with some good info...

That does clear a lot up for me.

I'm asking this forum, because I don't want to keep bombarding the artist with questions! But I am sorry if I seem a right novice to you guys......but I am!

Now, I will try to make this my last question....

But, if the album is being released through a label, shouldn't I have a contract with them too? Because right now it's just me and him in the agreement, but surely I need to be in touch with the label?


 I'm really being cautious here, I don't wanna get screwed over, and he said himself he only works with UNSIGNED writers which makes me suspicious...

So right now, the questions I will be asking him are:

Is he asking for 50% of the publishing share, or 50% of the writers share?

If he wants 50% of it all, would I state that in the contract as 50% of the NET VALUE?

If anyone here has a general contract template, that would be great to see. I have looked online, but all I have found is contracts with 5+ pages, and I'm not looking to make it so complicated.

[Boydie]

Now, I will try to make this my last question....

You can keep asking - these types of questions generate discussion, which always helps others with the same questions so keep asking

But, if the album is being released through a label, shouldn't I have a contract with them too? Because right now it's just me and him in the agreement, but surely I need to be in touch with the label?

No, a songwriter would not have any contact with the label - the label has a contract with the artist to provide them with an "advance" - out of which the artist needs to repay the recording and promotion of the album from future sales

Your contract is with a publisher, who's job it is to get your song recorded by an artist

In your case YOU are the publisher talking directly with the artist

The label and artist makes money from selling the CDs and streaming - you would see a tiny percentage of this income

The bulk of the writer's income will come from radio play and sync (tv, film, video) - which is managed and collected by the PRO (PRS in the U.K.)

You will therefore have no direct dealings with the label - you (or your publisher) are allowing your song to be recorded

Bigger songwriters & producers may get more involved but as a newer songwriter once you sign the song away you sit at home waiting for the royalty cheques to come in

[MartynRich]

I see this is related to the other thread...ask the artist who their Publisher is. They may be doing it themselves, in which case it sounds like a fair deal. However, still get it checked out by a lawyer. That last bit is non-negotiable.

[Melons]

Cheers Martyn,

Luckily, I have a solicitor in the family! Although she isn't a guru on music law, she is trained with contracts and I think she has given me some good advice.

I've made it a very simple agreement that everyone can understand. I have also stated that the publishing will be split 50/50, so will all other benefits. I will also specify that any expenses will come out of his half. Is that a bit too much?

With regards to asking him how he's pushing it, I think his manager and label will help him big time. It's a big label and remember I mentioned he's kind of already 'famous'.. I'm not 100% sure he has a publisher though :s

My friend mentioned that once the track is released, it will have its own identity number. Then I will input that number into PRS along with the splits.....and I think they take care of the rest. Though they charge quite a large fee in my opinion.

Let me know if I'm mistaken! Thanks 4 all your guidance so far.

I may pop back with a few more questions once everything progresses, and to let you know how all is going