[S.T.C]

Simple answer ,not entirely i would imagine , but is there a place for the likes of Dylan ,Paul Simon ,David Bowie, cat stevens etc ...in the commercial songwriting world.

I mean ,i don't think the songwriting ' brains' of the past, rather like great hollywood actors exist anymore......it's rather a rare talent,linked to a particular period of time.

People like Adele write songs for the time we live in,and have a talent of being able to sing benign lyrics in a modern and stylish manner....

It's about the wider public ,being willing and able to embrace some new genius , a wordsmith of extraordinary ability ,and making them mainstream.
 

[tone]

I know what you're saying STC, but I would argue that there are still great songwriters out there - although their popular appeal may not be what the likes of Paul Simon once enjoyed.

In fact, Paul Simon's still making records and writing very good songs. I don't know what it is though, but the magic of those 1970s songs and records just isn't quite there. Was it a quality of the times when those songs were written & recorded? I don't know.

But if you're after quality songwriting, check out Rufus Wainwright or John Grant or Ray Lamontagne or Laura Marling. Those guys are still kicking up musical and lyrical dust and raising the bar for the rest of us Does the 'commercial' world want them? Not really... I can't say that actually bothers me though. I mean, the commercial world doesn't really 'want' classical music either, but it doesn't stop it being as brilliant and worthy now as ever.

[Helena4]

Tbh songs that show a proper story require an attention span, and a free imagination. In our modern world of over stimulation, people train themselves to switch their attention every 20 seconds to some new rubbish and leave themselves no time for their brain to breahte  - that's when your imagination starts working. So songs with story or atmosphere only really reach the few of us who covet our attention and creativity.

So we have to work with the current climate - when theres a snowstorm going on, you can't expect all your freidns to come act as if it's beach weather, just becauseyou remember that was much more fun back in the summer - they'll think your crazy, and you'll go die of hypothermia alone. Strategies I see to deal with this climate is that I want to 1. Tap into dancing because no-one ever seems to get bored of that and EDM is obviously a craze for a reason - you can make something with a real message that also has a beat you can dance to. It's a good challenge sometimes. 2. Look at it like a punk - turn the socail problem into your material. People feel dissillusioned with life - more teenagers are depressed than ever and there has been a link made between social media and depressions (plus all sorts of other mental illness), but they're not really making the connection themselves, or if they are it seems unescapable.

As a young person of generation z, I like to think that I will create a new crazed counterculture of dancing punk luddites. Seems very currently relevant but also highly meanignful.

[Skub]

I dunno,there are so many outside influence that will have a bearing on an individual's answer to the question.

For example,someone my age would be inclined to say the golden age of pop/rock is over,but that could be down to simple nostalgia. The other thing I find very common in those north of 35 is,they stop seeking out new music and only listen to what they liked in their youth,so that demographic wouldn't have a scooby doo if there are good new songs out there or not.

Certainly it seems to me,the artists who were the most influential for my generation,have no modern parallel in terms of depths of material or longevity,though that last one can't be proven for another 40 years.  

So as I said at the start of this ramble...I dunno,but maybe.  

[igg]

Here's a link that I recently ran across.....it is a little dated but an interesting read....http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/12/great-songwriters-who-are-they-and-why-havent-there-been-any-for-the-last-20-years.html

Incidentally 3quarksdaily.com is an outstanding daily read......

igg

[jaywar76]

This is just my opinion,the World has changed,people are more comfortable,We are easily distracted,
are tension span are shorter.Music is more about sampling and Movies(Films) are about remarking old Movies,we are more anti-sociable,and self obsessed,and Lot of people want a hit and fame and money.


that's just my opinion.   

[S.T.C]

Here's a link that I recently ran across.....it is a little dated but an interesting read....http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/12/great-songwriters-who-are-they-and-why-havent-there-been-any-for-the-last-20-years.html

Incidentally 3quarksdaily.com is an outstanding daily read......

igg

Interesting read ,i read an article, that said the music industry as known  for the last 10 years , there's no great songwriters around.
I think David Bowie should have got special mention , those 4/5 albums he put out around the time he was with The Spiders from Mars...Ziggy Stardust etc....are loaded with gems.no one else could have conjoured up...
I'm sure it's a generational thing....some younger ones probably think Ed Sheeran is a modern day   wonder ....he's not though.
Personally speaking , i suspect ,the decades around the 70's were a more fertile time for creative people ,idealism ,hope , fashion ,inspiration. a desire to create something of substance,longlasting poetic and beautiful ...a lot of musicians had classical training ,they had the tools to express themselves.

[Helena4]

Yeah, I wasn't keen on the top songwriters list. David Bowie definitely deserved a spot.

I am 18 and I hate Ed Sheeran. People enjoy him but I don't think there's anyone who really thinks he's a wonder. The people who adore Ed Sheeran are generally people who I see as having no music taste, and not because they like singers that I hate or anything, just because they can't name anything that hasn't been in the recent top 10 as a favourite song, which means to me that they don't search out their music, therefore have gained no taste.

And I swear most of the big stars of the 70s were not classically trained. Someone was telling me today about Jimi Hendrix starting on a one stringed guitar he found in a bin. I dunno if THAT is true but what I do know is that he wasn't classically trained haha. I just don't think many people take a lot of time to think deeply these days, and I think people are focused on surface level stuff in life, and I think they are distracted. That's where half my inspiration comes from these days... wanting to shake people and wake them the fuck up. And myself. That is absolutely what my Dance Desperately song is about, and also Jehnny less directly. I gotta try and get better and prove you guys wrong about my generation haha.

[Oldbutyet]

I dont think great songwriting is gone and i dont think it will ever be gone, i still enjoy listening to new songs the same way i enjoy listening to songs from years back and the reason is, great songwriting.

[MartynRich]

Depends how you define great songwriting. A lot of modern music has excellent songwriting behind it but it's always mixed up with so much rubbish I guess I don't look hard enough for it. Occasionally though I will hear a new release and be blown away.

Great songwriting isn't just the successful stuff of course. There's plenty of it on this forum and my current play list is made up almost exclusively of members.

[Sing4me88]

I'm really against this muso snobbery of assuming that commercial songs aren't great and that anyone who writes a hit today isn't as 'great' as those of previous era. People were probably criticising the likes of the 'greats' mentioned here during their day too and comparing them rather unfavourably to whoever came before them - it's like football, boxing, films (delete or choose as appropriate. There's a misplaced yearning for a golden era when beer tasted better and sunshine was brighter....

To argue that there isn't 'great' songwriters around is premised entirely on one's own tastes and preferences (subjective) but if we are to define 'great' as in how many records are sold (objective) then yes there are many 'great' songwriters still out there and they are churning out hit after hit and making a lot of money. It's no coincidence that Stargate, Max Martin, Bonnie McKee and other songwriting teams have an impressive a catalogue of hits to their name - they are damn good (dare I say 'great' at their craft and trade).

You don't have to like someone's songs or music to acknowledge their worth as a songwriter - I deplore quite a lot of Paul Simon's songs and even more of Prince's but they are both 'great' writers. Also, I think Ed Sheeran's record sales do their own talking on how good he is.....

 

[Skub]

Here's a link that I recently ran across.....it is a little dated but an interesting read....http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2011/12/great-songwriters-who-are-they-and-why-havent-there-been-any-for-the-last-20-years.html

Incidentally 3quarksdaily.com is an outstanding daily read......

igg

That dude has many lawns that he needs people to get off. 

He lost me at the point where he reckoned CCR had only 5 good songs.

[S.T.C]

The great songwriters of bygone decades, wrote 'classics' many artists and bands managed a one hit wonder song.....since the 90's i'm not sure how many songs qualify...this is what the post is about....it's not subjective at all.it's not about sales..it's about the craft.

[Skub]

The great songwriters of bygone decades, wrote 'classics' many artists and bands managed a one hit wonder song.....since the 90's i'm not sure how many songs qualify...this is what the post is about....it's not subjective at all.it's not about sales..it's about the craft.

When you ask for opinion,it's always gonna be subjective. 

[Sing4me88]

The great songwriters of bygone decades, wrote 'classics' many artists and bands managed a one hit wonder song.....since the 90's i'm not sure how many songs qualify...this is what the post is about....it's not subjective at all.it's not about sales..it's about the craft.

Happy birthday is the most covered song in the world does that make it the greatest 'classic'? Some may have had one hit wonders but that's still an incredible achievement - if it was easy we'd have Grammy winners and on here! Moreover, people like Calvin Harris, Max Martin, Bonnie McKee have written hit after hit after hit. That's not a one hit wonder. Clearly they are 'great' writers.