[Helena4]

This song was a challenge to me to write lyrics to a guitar part I have - something I usually fail at. But since today somehow I've managed to minimise the buzzing of my crappy little mic, that helped since I could sort of sing along without moving my hands... somehow my hands and my mouth are unable to think seperately. Also, since I actually have a full guitar part for this one and mic that's working even though it's not the lovliest thing you've ever heard, I think I will actually post a recording soon - how exciting! Bear in mind its not going to be highest quality thing in terms of the recording... but I will go practice my singing a bit first. So I just thought I'd bring the lyrics here while I do that:

Somehow I've ended up behind the stage,
Black except the blue light,
That illuminates your deathly face,
Fumbling to find the words when I so rarely ever speak,
Not with my mouth at least,
But I'd rather die than text this.

I want to  be your friend,
Look me in the eye, Look me in the eye,
I can't see you there.
I want to be your best pal,
In real life, if that's still around.
Jehnny, I want to stare you in the eye,
And understand.
Jehnny, I want to stare you in the eye.

You were my neighbour a thousand million years ago,
And we would sit by the fire,
And lay our hearts on the hearthstone,
I huddle close cos I am finding all this blue light,
Colder than the amber spikes,
That I remember,
And you were fonder,
And I I I

I want to be your friend,
Look me in the eye, Look me in the eye,
I can't see you there.
I want to be your best pal,
In real life if thats still around.
Jehnny, I want to stare you in the eye,
And understand,
Jehnny, I want to stare you in the eye.

Come with me,
Out of the light,
Let me see your hands and hold your eyes.
Come with me,
Into the woods at night,
There are no wolves, the only wolves are you and I.

I want to be your friend,
Look me in the eye, Look me in the eye,
I can't see you there,
I want to be your best pal,
In real life if thats still around.
Jehnny...
Jehnny, I want to stare you in the eye,
And understand,
Jehnny, I want to stare you in the eye.

[CaliaMoko]

Hi Helena!

This lyric has a very moody feel to it for me. I don't know the story and reading the lyrics doesn't reveal much to me--I do get a vague, but intense, yearning feel from it. The lack of rhymes and consistent rhythms give it a strong unstable quality which seems to suit it well.

As poetry, it works for me. I'm interested in hearing it set to music.

Vicki

[Helena4]

Thanks CaliaMoko! I'm glad you like it. It's definitely one of my more miserable little peices but all of my work is on some scale of misery or just completely hilarious I find. I'm glad the intense yearning and darkness come across. I'm glad you like the unstable quality, I must say that it does sort of Rryhme though, when I sing it at least. Apart from in a few places.

The chord progression is just a bit of an ode to A suspended chords. I was reading a thread on reddit while I was in holiday in July about "how to make your guitar sound more post-punk-y" and someone just said, "use some suspended chords", so I tried to use some suspended chords. Asus2 is my fav haha. I felt like the chord progression had a certain desperate quality so I was going for that with the lyrics, though my orignal ones were just too pathetic in character, and rather predictable in melody. I basically wrote the chorus for this one after listening through Savages - Silence Yourself album. Jehnny Beth is the name of the lead singer. The album comes with this little manifesto which inspired me somewhat... its sort of about the bombardment of distracting information in the modern age and how you must "silence yourself", as in cut out the information and entertainment and sort of let things be quiet for a bit, to find anything real.

If you want to know the message as far as I see it, it can pretty much be summed up as "I really want to throw away my smarthphone right now and I would like you all to stop texting me and come do olden days 'boring things' with me so I can just enjoy YOU. Jehnny Beth has all the answers and I would really just like to meet her and stare her in the eye and understand it all. Also it's frustrating because sometimes I feel like I have no friends because I don't feel like I quite connect to them unless I text them because I am shy and they are unavailable."

That wasn't really a summary, more of a directionless rant but that's probably why its pretty ambigious and tbh that's fine, people can interpret it any way they want. The whole going on about eyes just stemmed from the desire to stare Jehnny in the eye because I find her to be an interesting and wise but confusing human, but it became a metaphor for all desire for connection. Blue light is the sort of light you get from phones and computers and Tvs. I basically just keep having a very cliche trendy teenager desire to go live in the early 90s (even though I wasn't alive....) when people still didn't have mobile phones and you just had to go do stuff, and the internet was so slow you wouldn't even want to lock yourself in your room with it and be a depressive little hermit as I've previously been guilty of (this is why all my songs are miserable...). I swear I'm not jumping on the 90s kid trend! I don't do fads I swear, I'm a creative free spirit! Haha

Sorry ranting.

[CaliaMoko]

A very articulate rant! And you're right. There is rhyme. I didn't even miss it, so don't ask me why I said "lack of rhyme". And I noticed and appreciated the "near" quality of the rhyme, which also supports the unstable tone of the lyric well.

[AndyV]

I like your writing, especially this verse:

You were my neighbour a thousand million years ago
And we would sit by the fire
etc.

Not easy to understand however what it is really about, but it's a treat for people who like poetry (like myself)

[Helena4]

I like your writing, especially this verse:

You were my neighbour a thousand million years ago
And we would sit by the fire
etc.

Not easy to understand however what it is really about, but it's a treat for people who like poetry (like myself)

Thank you! I'm wondering whether the vagueness is intriguing or just makes it uninteresting because its impossible to follow. I must say that this one of very few times that I've written lyrics to a guitar part that had none - it probably makes them suffer. I'm impressed that I managed it at all and that I made a vocal melody that is not the exact rythm of the guitar strumming... which I always manage to do somehow.

I'm thinking I'm gonna breifly learn some basic things about Reaper DAW before recording it finally just in case there's something really basic I'm not doing that I should which is likely because I do nothing. Also there's one bit I'm starting to wonder if I can actually sing it well the way I intended. Whatever it'll be up in a couple of days though - I'm not looking to create an actual proper impressive track right now, just to actually demonstrate how it goes.

[AndyV]

I'm wondering whether the vagueness is intriguing or just makes it uninteresting because its impossible to follow.

To be honest (and that's only my humble opinion), if you want to reach a broad audience with your songs, then you must write lyrics people can remember. A good song must grab the attention of a listener and this can only be done with a great tune or catchy lyrics.

A decade ago, we listened to CD's which had booklets containing the lyrics. That allowed us to listen to the song and read the lyrics at the same time. Lyrics like yours were super, because we had the music and the text to really get into the song.

Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. These days, no one really "listens" to a song anymore, they just "hear" it. If you are lucky, your song will be listened to entirely, but do you know that the average playing time of a music video on YouTube is below 40%?

My point is: if you have a story to tell which is written in a way that requires a lot of concentration (and I can only applaud that), I don't think it will reach a broad audience when used as a lyric. You might be better off just using it as a poem. This way you can reach the people who are really interested in good writing.

So I guess it’s a matter of which audience you want to reach   

Not judging you, just giving my opinion. You may contest it of course

Cheers

Andy

[Helena4]

I'm wondering whether the vagueness is intriguing or just makes it uninteresting because its impossible to follow.

To be honest (and that's only my humble opinion), if you want to reach a broad audience with your songs, then you must write lyrics people can remember. A good song must grab the attention of a listener and this can only be done with a great tune or catchy lyrics.

A decade ago, we listened to CD's which had booklets containing the lyrics. That allowed us to listen to the song and read the lyrics at the same time. Lyrics like yours were super, because we had the music and the text to really get into the song.

Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. These days, no one really "listens" to a song anymore, they just "hear" it. If you are lucky, your song will be listened to entirely, but do you know that the average playing time of a music video on YouTube is below 40%?

My point is: if you have a story to tell which is written in a way that requires a lot of concentration (and I can only applaud that), I don't think it will reach a broad audience when used as a lyric. You might be better off just using it as a poem. This way you can reach the people who are really interested in good writing.

So I guess it’s a matter of which audience you want to reach  

Not judging you, just giving my opinion. You may contest it of course

Cheers

Andy

Oh god it pisses me off how much my friends skip between songs. It's like they all have the attention span of a nat suddenly - that's why Jehnny Beth's "Silence yourself" philosiphy is so important these days. Nobody can go a moment without being distracted. Myself often included. Except I have a sort of compulsion that comes from my high respect for all music that I never cut off a song except in two circumstances - 1. trying to survey the general sound of an artist/album quickly or 2. Something really exceptional has happened and I actually need to go do something else haha. And I only buy albums that I am willing to listen to straight through (cuts it down a bit) - and then that's usually how I listen to them at least the first few times... then I build actual thought out preferences for songs. It infuriates me when other people play music in my presence and switch songs half way through about 10 times. You can't get the nuances of anything if you turn off at any point of rest. I wonder if they actual LIKE any of their music.

For this reason... I would rather have a smaller loyal fanbase than platinum success in my life (Im talking long term here since I'm still young and with some (possibly naive) optimism I could do anything if I really aimed for it). But in either scenario, you have to draw people in and so you have singles and album tracks, don't you. Certainly something this vague is not destined to be a single.

But I am vaguely considering whether it is too vague as I said (vague vague vague vague). Whatever. What I'm more concerned about is my other tracks like Vodka http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11383.0 which was always supposed to be catchy but got weirdly flowery and overly long in the verses and so needs redrafting.

I do try to go for both intriguing and catchy... this one actually gets stuck in my own head a lot so I think that's okay http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=11398.0 it's also fairly direct, but dark and intriguing.

(Im aware that you can't actually hear any of these, but hopefully it comes across somehow)

But I'm still working on being catchy and meaningful...

I don't think it helps that I'm in love with The Smiths and Morrisey's lyrics are the most mixed up unstructured confusing stuff ever. Somehow it always ends up meaning a lot to me though. Similarly Jehnny Beth who I mention a lot has even more incomprehensible lyrics haha.

I can't really work out where my values are. I just don't want anything to be boring or predictable. And I try to pour out emotions thoroughly - I don't see the point of half heartedly exposing yourself. Vodka in particular is just a splurge of emotion. Not that it's not all constructed - I try to create atmospheres. If you splurge one emotion in the same style you splurge another, you make your own emotions start to seem quite one dimensional - what a boring person you must be! I'm aware that I pobably can't escape this entirely, but as long as I try, and especially as long as I don't splurge just as other people splurge - at least I can be my own person (splurge splurge spluuuuuuurge).

Sorry I am such a forum ranter. I really need to think about what I'm trying to say. I guess that must be my frame of mind at the moment hense the confusing lyrics.

Oh also PS. If you are actually interested in poetry from me, I have done such things. I have at least one poem that I could share. I feel like it should be spoken word though. I could even record it. I find it quite funny... I used to really hate poetry when I was younger. I used to write fairly good short stories and very ameteurish novels and I thought poetry was ridiculous. I have always been inspired on occasion to write poems though. How did I end up here though? I know... through a band me and my friend made when I was 13 that existed in a fantasy and thus comprised only of stacks and stacks and stacks of lyrics. Still I have very little patience for actual poetry outside of lyrics however I see that this is intirely illogical and I am working towards becoming a poetry reader. Though I do find poetry just becomes too too vague for me a lot of the time. Spoken word poetry is usually better on that front though.

[Helena4]

I think I will be extending the time frame for the creation of this track longer. I was gonna just throw something out real quick but then I started thinking about it... and I wanted the guitar to have delay and all... which means I have to get a new power cable for my electric's amp because it's broken... and yeah spend at least a little time understanding how my daw (reaper) actually works cos I can only just about use it haha.

[Hooded Singer]

I think you should read this out loud and see what parts you struggle to flow with.

In my opinion some of it isn't catchy and is quite convoluted, using too complicated language and/or too many words to convey the meaning.

I personally can't sing "Somehow I've ended up behind the stage" with any real melody and would prefer to say simply "Somehow behind the stage" Some-how-be-hind-the-stage, it's less syllables and easier to get out, if you apply that philosophy through out it's going to improve a lot.

"Fumbling to find the words when I so rarely ever speak" is a real mouthful and could be condensed like "fumbling to find words, rarely ever speak". Of course I can't hear you trying to sing it and you might have a way to pull it off very well.

Just my 2 cents.

[Helena4]

I think you should read this out loud and see what parts you struggle to flow with.

In my opinion some of it isn't catchy and is quite convoluted, using too complicated language and/or too many words to convey the meaning.

I personally can't sing "Somehow I've ended up behind the stage" with any real melody and would prefer to say simply "Somehow behind the stage" Some-how-be-hind-the-stage, it's less syllables and easier to get out, if you apply that philosophy through out it's going to improve a lot.

"Fumbling to find the words when I so rarely ever speak" is a real mouthful and could be condensed like "fumbling to find words, rarely ever speak". Of course I can't hear you trying to sing it and you might have a way to pull it off very well.

Just my 2 cents.

I almost always start my lyric writing with singing. I can sing it, you simply have failed to imagine how, which of course is because there is no audio. Hopefully I can actually provide some at some point. I do not see any value in your suggestions as they create lines that have absolutely no meaning. Not conveying meaning is worse than using to many words. But I get your point it could be said that I use a lot of unnecessary words - I think I am more guilty of this however in another song I mentioned "Vodka", where the long lines were rather mashed together and distracting. However, I'm not sure it applies too much here. Also, there are some lines I'm thinking of altering, but not those.

[Hooded Singer]

I think you should read this out loud and see what parts you struggle to flow with.

In my opinion some of it isn't catchy and is quite convoluted, using too complicated language and/or too many words to convey the meaning.

I personally can't sing "Somehow I've ended up behind the stage" with any real melody and would prefer to say simply "Somehow behind the stage" Some-how-be-hind-the-stage, it's less syllables and easier to get out, if you apply that philosophy through out it's going to improve a lot.

"Fumbling to find the words when I so rarely ever speak" is a real mouthful and could be condensed like "fumbling to find words, rarely ever speak". Of course I can't hear you trying to sing it and you might have a way to pull it off very well.

Just my 2 cents.

I almost always start my lyric writing with singing. I can sing it, you simply have failed to imagine how, which of course is because there is no audio. Hopefully I can actually provide some at some point. I do not see any value in your suggestions as they create lines that have absolutely no meaning. Not conveying meaning is worse than using to many words. But I get your point it could be said that I use a lot of unnecessary words - I think I am more guilty of this however in another song I mentioned "Vodka", where the long lines were rather mashed together and distracting. However, I'm not sure it applies too much here. Also, there are some lines I'm thinking of altering, but not those.

Maybe it would be an improvement if your song did have 'absolutely no meaning' because it's a dumb song of pubescent drivel about fawning over a girl.

[Helena4]

Maybe it would be an improvement if your song did have 'absolutely no meaning' because it's a dumb song of pubescent drivel about fawning over a girl.

1. I'm an adult

2. I already explained that I was just trying to challenge myself to actually write something to a guitar part because I have always stupidly just made loads of vocal parts that I dunno what to do with instrumentally. It's a step in the right direction , but no not my best lyric. I am aware. Though you have missed most of the meaning.

3. Why exactly did this become an insult slinging match? Although I totally disagreed with you at first I did take some time to consider your criticisms and in the end I saw some value in them. It's something I will be keeping in my mind in the future. There was nothing offensive about my message. It just seems you can't deal at all with being disagreed with. And who's the child here?

[Graemepryce]

Hey mate, I don't think it is a 'dumb song of pubescent drivel about fawning over a girl' - but even if it was, isn't that what a good 50% of successful songs are anyway?

I think it's a pretty good basic lyric sheet that you can probably work more with as you go on putting music to it. I particularly liked a few bits of it and thought it opened really well.

I'd be interested to hear what it sounds like when you get a version recorded anyway.

[shadowfax]

Hey mate, I don't think it is a 'dumb song of pubescent drivel about fawning over a girl' - but even if it was, isn't that what a good 50% of successful songs are anyway?

I think it's a pretty good basic lyric sheet that you can probably work more with as you go on putting music to it. I particularly liked a few bits of it and thought it opened really well.

I'd be interested to hear what it sounds like when you get a version recorded anyway.

Agree with you regarding the lyrics of successful songs 'cept I reckon it's probably nearer 90%..I can't recall a successful recent song that had deep and meaningful lyrics..generally speaking peeps do not want to be educated or preached to by a lyric..there are always exceptions, of course..and I'm sure there are some out there..just cannot remember them...
I hasten to add that the lyrics posted here do not fall into either category I've mentioned...
they're damn good lyrics for a contemporary pop song..