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I think the biggest mistake new songwriters make is ...

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AdamHarkus

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« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2016, 08:38:03 PM »
put the listener first.
Hi Adam - not trying to pile on here, but one of the biggest mistakes is to "put the listener first". I say write songs like no-one is going to listen to them (sort of like the expression "dance like there is no-one looking") That way you free yourself of the fear of your songs not being liked. Or maybe I'm just over-confident :) :)

I'll rephrase it in that case.....

We should always at least "consider" the listener. I'm all for self expression and wouldn't put anything out I wasn't happy with,  but without some critical analysis we'd never improve.
haha - good point. I probably consider the listener a lot more than I'm willing to admit :) Welcome, BTW!

Thanks and nice to meet you :)
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tone

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« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2016, 12:05:58 AM »
haha - good point. I probably consider the listener a lot more than I'm willing to admit :) Welcome, BTW!
I still think there's a line to be drawn here too - even though you're writing the song, you're also the listener as you do it, almost certainly the only listener. And you're also probably writing the song you'd like to hear, so it goes without saying that you're writing for *a* listener. How much credence you give to that other imaginary audience while you're writing is another thing. Sure, it's probably lurking to some extent in all of us, but like Paulski, I like to think my best songs are the ones I wrote for me.
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Strummer

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« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 10:21:42 AM »
Writing a melody that closely follows the chord sequence will usually result in an uninspired tune. A lot of new (and not so new) songwriters fall into this trap. Better to come up with the vocal melody first and then assemble the chord sequence around it, I find.

Oldbutyet

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« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2016, 03:26:04 PM »
I think the biggest mistake new songwriters make is

The internet lyric/songwriter community can be a plus and negative for any new lyric/songwriters confidence, if i was starting of today i think the internet lyric/songwriter community would be a great place to start but then i can see the negative side of it as well, so i think one of the biggest mistake new lyric/songwriters make is not putting their work out there, but then theres that fear that their work is not good enough, that fear that their work their ideas will be stolen, that fear that they really want to learn to better their talent but all they hear is their own negative thoughts telling them, whatever no good reason why.

Also i think the biggest mistake new and old songwriters make is in one word, protection, but in reality all their lyrics/songs are doing is gathering dusts, i could go on, like new lyric/songwriters posting for help and when they get it you never hear from them again (negative thoughts telling them, whatever no good reason why) when in actual fact they really do have talent and finally theres the classic, ill just post my work and the hell with you all.

One last thing, I think the biggest mistake new and old lyric/songwriters make is, none at all, if you don't enjoy it then find something else to do.

I try and put the listener first.


After i record a song i become the listener, all 80.000 of them, no fecking kidding man   8)


m9@655

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« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 08:30:16 PM »
The biggest mistakes must be
Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month. Because.
For the older songwriters who want to sound like their favorite artists, well that's OK if you only want to write for fun.
But if you don't listen to the current music in the charts how will you ever write a current song.
The way they are produced.

I think the biggest mistake lyric writers make is they try to make every line rhyme. And there's to much love and sorrow in each verse.
If I'm looking for a love song lyric I'm looking for one that doesn't say I love or you or you broke my heart etc.

Buc McMaster

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« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2016, 02:57:36 AM »
Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month.  For the older songwriters who want to sound like their favorite artists, well that's OK if you only want to write for fun.........But if you don't listen to the current music in the charts how will you ever write a current song.

That may be true if you want to write a top 20 song, but I'd bet that most of the "older" songwriters don't have a favorite artist in the top 20 to listen to.......nor do they want to sound like a favorite artist or write a "current" song.  Songwriters are, in my experience, striking individualists that certainly want to write well but don't necessarily want to emulate anyone else.  I know I fit that description.  I want to convey what rattles around in my mind in my own way, hopefully uniquely, and such that a listener will be engaged to at least consider what's being said. 

Neil C

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« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2016, 08:56:22 AM »
Apart from the obvious of not using the fab resources and talents of this forum for me its Not Finishing song. 
Starting is hard, but finishing harder. Complete it and move on the the next. Like Arnold Parlmer's thing the more you do the better you'll get, so dont get stick.
 :)
Neil
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Skub

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« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2016, 10:03:52 PM »
The biggest mistakes must be
Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month. Because.
For the older songwriters who want to sound like their favorite artists, well that's OK if you only want to write for fun.
But if you don't listen to the current music in the charts how will you ever write a current song.
The way they are produced.

I'm dying laughing here....

You fail to differentiate between music and the music business. The music business is all about sincerity,once you can fake that,you are made.

Sing4me88

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« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 01:05:36 PM »
I'm going to go a little left of field and say the biggest mistake is taking the opinion of others as absolute gospel. Music is so subjective and what floats one persons boat doesn't do it for someone else. I think the key is to give consideration to a plurality of voices in feedback but not to automatically assume that just because X says the drums in your track are lousy doesn't actually mean they are. It's the fine line between rejecting all critique in a 'know-it-all' way and accepting everything negative anyone else says as fact rather than opinion. This forum is a great place for a breadth of feedback from differing perspectives so I guess the task is to weigh it all up and tweak accordingly.

Granted for those aiming for commercialism there are, for sure, certain people you should definitely listen to and give increased reception to but even then it isn't always gospel (ie A Team, Blurred Lines, All About the Bass have all confounded the industry folk who wrote them off).

AdamHarkus

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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2016, 03:46:12 PM »
Before the Internet, to get your music out there (or in some cases even produced), at least one other person had to like what you were doing (a promoter, producer, agent or someone in the industry)

This in effect meant most of the music people heard on the radio etc had already been 'vetted' for want of a better word, which resulted in better quality music.

Then along came the internet and now anyone can release anything, regardless of the quality. They don't need it pass some sort of test. For me this is a BIG problem as this means the artists that get ahead aren't necessarily the most talented, and we get swamped with mediocrity.

Going back to the OP. Music as a whole (IMHO) needs that lost stage of Quality Control, of tough love, otherwise we'd get carried away on a wave of deluded self-appreciation.





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R.G.S

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« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2016, 03:51:30 PM »
Apart from the obvious of not using the fab resources and talents of this forum for me its Not Finishing song. 
Starting is hard, but finishing harder. Complete it and move on the the next. Like Arnold Parlmer's thing the more you do the better you'll get, so dont get stick.
 :)
Neil


I must agree with Neil C here, not finishing songs is a bad habit to start. I went through a stage around 10 years ago where I had a drawer next to my bed full of half or three quarters finished songs.

Once I had done it a few times I began to rarely finish songs, I felt that a song had to be written in one or two sittings, while the emotions or idea was fresh.

This just led to frustration in the long run and I began practicing a new method of not starting a new song until I had finished the previous.

I believe it's okay to write pages of seperate ideas, rhymes, chord sequences or melodies but having a whole bunch of half finished songs and waiting for two to fit together is counter productive.
Feel free to check out my free PDF on beginning and improving your songwriting.

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hardtwistmusic

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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2016, 06:10:31 AM »
I think the "biggest mistake new songwriters make" is exactly the same as the "biggest mistake old songwriters make." 

And I think that "biggest mistake" is thinking that I/we/they KNOW what the "biggest mistake you can make" is. 

Each of us tends to see the mistakes OTHERS make as "big/bigger/biggest" and the mistakes we make ourselves as "insignificant." 

I suggest that each of us "JUST WRITE."  Try to find our own mistakes by listening to others.  The whole concept of a "biggest mistake" is really without meaning. 

I've written bad songs by following Bob Dylan's example.  Dylan could pull it off, and I could not.  The only mistake was not being good enough to pull it off.  Try things without worrying whether it's a mistake or not. 

Not sure any of what I said here is comprehensible.  It's more of a feeling than a thought. 
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MartynRich

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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2016, 02:32:50 PM »
Sounds sensible to me Tom. The more you broaden your horizons and think outside the box, the better you'll get by not worrying about mistakes along the way.

montydog

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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2016, 05:09:04 PM »
Not listening enough to great songwriters and absorbing what they can teach you. If you listen to someone such as Joni Mitchell you will realise just how much possibility there is for self expression in songwriting.

delb0y

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« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2016, 07:33:10 PM »
Cool thread. A quick check and balance reveals I'm not making too many mistakes but could do better:

Mistakes I Make From Those Listed So Far

The most common beginner mistake I see is people filling a whole song with one single idea, essentially repeating themselves but using different words Yep. Almost every song I write has a single theme or idea, be it a story or a character or even an emotion (leaving, stealing melodies, being happy, remembering better times). I don't see this as an issue - but assuming it is, I'm guilty.

I believe it's important to critically analyse your work and put the listener first. I play what I like. I write what I like. I guess this could be my biggest mistake.

Writing a melody that closely follows the chord sequence will usually result in an uninspired tune.  Yep, guilty. My singing is pretty limited and thus I rarely - no, never - write something where the melody note would not follow the chord sequence.

The biggest mistakes must be Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month. Guilty. I've never ever in my life listened to pop music. Just doesn't connect with me. Even when I was a teenager (which is the demographic that the top twenty is aimed at - although pre-teens these days, too) I never connected with pop music. Always preferred The Allman Bros. to Bros.

Not Finishing song.   Kind of guilty. For me a song isn't finished until I've played it live a few times (enough times for me to know whether it's going to work or not). There are plenty I've written that I've never played live.

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Mistake I Don't Make From Those Listed So Far

Rhyming every line - nope, not guilty. I like a good rhyme but I'm happy to write songs that don't rhyme. I actually think what's worse is obvious rhymes/over-used rhymes (same thing can be said about subject matter) but this doesn't seem to bother anyone but me, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning as a mistake.

Getting stuck on a particular tune. Thinking it's their best and spending too much time recording and promoting it. Definitely not guilty. Not written anything that I think is worthy of spending more than one take on yet, and definitely nothing that warrants promoting.

2nd most common mistake is thinking your song that makes mistake #1 is really great. Not guilty - still don't think I've written a great song, let alone a really great one.

Trying to be original is another one.  Not me. Originality is as rare as hen's teeth IMHO and I certainly don't go searching for it as comments here will testify!

Settling.  Settling for "that'll do" phrases and lines.  Believing that one or two pretty good lines will carry a lyric.......not!  Every line, every word! is a link in the chain of a quality lyric.  Accept no substitutes! Not guilty. Many of my songs have taken years before I find the right rhyme or just the right story.

Overconfidence.....  Ha! No. Not me.

Taking the opinion of others as absolute gospel Nope, not guilty. I listen to what others say. I consider their ideas. I might agree, I might not. A lot depends on who they are, what they listen to and like, the quality of what they produce etc etc.

Not listening enough to great songwriters and absorbing what they can teach you. Not guilty. I listen to great songwriters all the time. But, of course, what I consider great mightn't be what others consider great. There are hit singles I think are appalling.

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On a personal note, the biggest mistake I make is never practicing writing for others. All my songs are written for me, and because of my limitations in singing and playing and music knowledge it follows my songs are pretty limited. The best songs I've written are where I've been the lyricist and I've given the melody and chords and arrangement over to others. Which is why this may happen more in the future.

Cheers
Derek
West Country Country Boy