Construction of lyrics

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GuyBarry

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« on: May 11, 2016, 09:54:45 AM »
In another thread on "The Bar" forum, I commented that I thought the essence of songwriting was fitting the natural rhythms of speech to the natural rhythms of music.  MartynRich said he didn't really understand what I meant, so I thought I'd give a detailed example of the sort of thought-processes I typically go through when I construct a lyric.  The post is a bit long for the forum so I've put it here.  I'd be interested to know if other people construct lyrics in a similar fashion, or what processes they use instead.

It's not always a struggle, of course.  Sometimes, in a flash of inspiration, a line will come to me perfectly formed, rhymes, scansion and everything, and I feel terribly pleased with myself.  But more often than not it's this tortuous process of writing and re-writing to get everything to fit in.

I know I'm not the only one who works like this.  I have a friend who also writes comedy and she operates in a similar, though not identical, fashion - she writes down pairs of rhymes on slips of paper and then works out lines to fit them, eventually piecing them together in a sort of jigsaw fashion.  (I know this because we collaborated a couple of times.)  

The method isn't unique to comedy either.  I have in front of me a fascinating volume by one of the greatest lyricists of the 20th century, Ira Gershwin, called "Lyrics on Several Occasions".  He sets out a large number of his lyrics and then describes the processes by which the lyrics were written, in some detail.  (The section on "It Ain't Necessarily So" is particularly interesting - it started out as a dummy lyric and actually became the song.)  It's worth getting hold of if you're interested in the songwriter's craft.

Comments please?

« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:57:04 AM by GuyBarry »

The S

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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2016, 02:30:55 PM »
I haven't read the blog yet, I will though and I'll come back and comment. But I'll definitely check out that book you're mentioning. Sounds right up my alley. I love everything about crafting songs and I love books so it seems to be a perfect fit.

Tip, if you haven't read Oscar Hammersteins "Notes on lyrics" you should. Great read for sure!

https://espalibretto.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/hammersteins-notes-on-lyrics.pdf

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GuyBarry

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« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2016, 07:41:30 PM »
That Oscar Hammerstein article looks really interesting - thanks!  I've only skim-read some parts of it but I'll look at the whole thing in detail soon.  I was particularly interested in his comments about "Ol' Man River" - that if you've got serious subject-matter it's better to use rhymes sparingly, so that the listener isn't constantly hanging on for the next rhyme.  I've only attempted one serious song so far but I see that I did much the same, without consciously thinking about it.

They really knew a thing or two about songwriting in those days, don't you think?

The S

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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 03:05:30 PM »

They really knew a thing or two about songwriting in those days, don't you think?

Sure did! Even if you don't like that kind of music I think we all as song crafters would benefit from looking closer to what they did back in those days. Take Porter, Mercer, Hammerstein, Sondheim and Gershwins to name a few, and really examine the way they construct their songs/lyrics, you get the feeling it's sort of a dying lost art unfortunately these days. It's just in resent years that I've been pointed in their direction but I'm glad I was. Great great stuff!

GuyBarry

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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 08:05:03 PM »
Take Porter, Mercer, Hammerstein, Sondheim and Gershwins to name a few, and really examine the way they construct their songs/lyrics, you get the feeling it's sort of a dying lost art unfortunately these days.

Sondheim being a later era of course... but yes, it's always the Great American Songbook writers that I take my inspiration from.  However much I hear songs from more recent times, I always feel they set a benchmark for other writers to live up to.  I can listen to the work of Cole Porter, Irving Berlin, the Gershwins, Rodgers and Hart/Hammerstein, Jerome Kern et al over and over again and it never grows stale.  That's what songwriting's all about for me.

What I don't understand is why that style of writing has never made a comeback.  Those writers were immensely successful in their day - it's not for nothing that their songs have become known as "standards".  Maybe it's because a lot of the songs were written for musical theatre, which is less of a popular art form these days.  Or maybe it's because the advent of recording meant that songs became associated more with a particular performer.  Certainly there was no concept of the "singer/songwriter" as we now know it.  Whatever the reason, we all owe a huge debt to the writers of that era and their influence simply can't be ignored.

The S

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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2016, 06:17:04 PM »
Like I said, I've only recently been introduced to the GAS so my knowledge is that of a n00b!!! =)

But what I have been reading lyric wise is absolutely top notch, these guys did not kid around. And it's fascinating to read about their approach to lyrics, the songs and songwriting as a whole. They made it an artform and science and I just love that mindset. Again, I'm so glad I got introduced to it, better late then never, and I will continue to read and analyse it. The musical part of the GAS is mostly not my cup of tea, not to say I don't appreciate many of the standards, it gets a little too much musical theatre at times and it's just not what I'm in too. But I have to admit though, after reading these guys lyrics and the way they approach their songs I do appreciate more of the old standards then I did before so who knows?!?! =)

Have a good one!

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Royston

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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2016, 12:08:23 PM »
Hi

I have always been interested in the songwriters of yesteryear and one that you mention Irving Berlin was one that interested me most I don't know why but I really delved into his songwriting.

I have managed to track down a copy of the book 'Lyrics On Several Occasions' which I intend to purchase thanks for the tip.

Cheers

Royston