[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

I was going to post something about this some time ago....maybe I even did. One gets so forgetful these days.

Anyway...I have an instinctive 'oh no' reaction to comedy songs which is probably unfair - hell, nobody's perfect - and may stem from a few folk nights I participated in years ago where there was a funny fellow with an acoustic. Maybe he just wasn't very funny. Maybe I'm just intolerant. Maybe I, who whinge about others dismissing a genre wholesale based on scant knowledge of it, am just a hypocritical bastard.

But what qualifies as a novelty/comedy song? 'The Streak' must be one. 'Lily The Pink'. What about 'Yakkaty Yak'? Or 'Jilted John'? Or Billericay Dickie'?

Maybe part of the (my) problem is that, like a joke, they don't stand being repeated too often so, if the music isn't great (subjective!) - and this is music, right? - it wears a bit thin with time.

Let's take Louis Jordan. His stuff has comic tendencies - Fat Sam From Birmingham, for example - but I can listen to 'Messy Bessy' til the cows come home because I love the music.

I don't ever need to hear D-I-V-O-R-C-E by Billy Connolly again.

I won't ramble on but I'll leave you with a song that I like written by Billy Austin performed here by Dave Bartholomew.

Who Drank My Beer While I Was In The Rear

Be interesting to have your thoughts. And your favourite 'novelty' songs of course.

[Skub]

Ooooh yummy. 

[GuyBarry]

As an aspiring comedy songwriter, I have to reply!

I was going to post something about this some time ago....maybe I even did. One gets so forgetful these days.

Anyway...I have an instinctive 'oh no' reaction to comedy songs which is probably unfair

Not necessarily.  It really depends on what you find funny.  A sense of humour is a very personal thing.

But what qualifies as a novelty/comedy song? 'The Streak' must be one. 'Lily The Pink'. What about 'Yakkaty Yak'? Or 'Jilted John'? Or Billericay Dickie'?

If those are the best examples of comedy songs you can come up with, no wonder you don't like them!  I've never heard of "The Streak", but the rest of them are pretty atrocious in my view - "Billericay Dickie" is probably the best of a bad bunch.

But you're really talking about "novelty" songs, which are the ones that you occasionally get in the charts.  Most of the best comedy songs have never been in the charts.  I've mentioned elsewhere that I'm a great admirer of the work of people like Flanders and Swann, Tom Lehrer and Noel Coward -  I don't think any of them ever had a chart hit.  The recent death of Victoria Wood showed that there was a lot of affection for her songs, but did people go out and buy them?  No, they listened to her performing them on TV or on stage.  A lot of comedy works best in live performance.

Maybe part of the (my) problem is that, like a joke, they don't stand being repeated too often so, if the music isn't great (subjective!) - and this is music, right? - it wears a bit thin with time.

That's true to an extent - if you've heard a joke once, it's less funny the second time because you know what's coming.  But that doesn't mean that good comedy songs don't bear repetition.  I can listen to Flanders and Swann over and over again and they still make me laugh, because a lot of the comedy is in the delivery rather than the actual song.

I don't ever need to hear D-I-V-O-R-C-E by Billy Connolly again.

I'm right with you there!  How that ever got to number one I shall never know.  The original deserved to be parodied but not in that awful fashion.

A rare example of a genuinely funny song that did well in the charts is "Bang Bang" by B.A. Robertson, from 1979.  He seems to be forgotten now but it got to number two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pco3GJK22FI

I'll think of others maybe...

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Yes you're right Guy. These are perhaps more novelty songs.

How did you manage to avoid hearing 'The Streak' by Ray Stevens?

I actually like 'Jilted John' in very small doses and 'Yakkety Yak' (great music again).

I confess I'm not familiar with anything other than the names of the people you mentioned which shows how unqualified I am to judge, but instinct tells me that I won't be interested, and life is too short....maybe I've heard a couple of Noel Coward things.

I appreciate what you're saying about part of the 'comedy' being in the performance and delivery so yes probably better live.

I do remember Bang Bang. Hard to believe it actually got to no.2. Just goes to show you how tastes differ!

[nooms]

no doubt in my mind..

ernie, fastest milk cart in the west

[PaulAds]

Great talking point VC, you rascal

I think a good test would be to strip out the lyrics and see if the music could stand up on its own.

And/or remove the music to see if the comedy could stand on its own.

Not many that I'm aware of would do too well, I fear.

Admittedly it's quite a harsh test...a lot of the music is signposting when you're supposed to laugh, I think.

[tina m]

chickenfeet cramer!?... what are you a comedy artist?

[Paulski]

Hmmm.. What's the diff between a "Novelty" song and a "Comedy" song?
Songs like the beatles "Yellow Submarine" - which type was it?
I'm thinking that any song that makes me grin  it's a novelty song, if I laugh it's a comedy song??

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Tina - Yes I'm going to have to come up with a signature tune making light of my affliction and turning it into an attraction like Fats Domino did with 'The Fat Man'.

Paul - Funny, I never really thought about Yellow Submarine....it's just a Beatles song. I have to say that I can live without it to be honest. Same goes for some of their other novelty songs.

I can grin though at songs that maybe aren't supposed to be either like 'Dance With A Dolly' by Bill Haley.

[delb0y]

I need to ponder on this some more. But initially I thought I'd have a quick look through the iPod to see what that reveals... What it revealed is that I don't listen to comedy songs. Quite a few of the artists I enjoy have a humourous streak to their lyrics - folks like John Prine ("Please Don't Bury Me", for example) - but they're certainly not comedy songsters. I think I do have a Tenacious D album somewhere, though.

Thinking about it some more - I love stand-up comedy but my heart always sinks a little when a comedian picks up a guitar or goes to sit at the piano. I'm sure there have been many great moments as a result, but I can't really recall any. Only Bill Bailey doing the Kraftwerk version of Hokey Cokey!

This certainly doesn't mean such songs can't be taken seriously - a good well written comedy / novelty / nonsense song is as valid as any other, and maybe they are harder to write in the same way as writing comedy without music is reputedly harder than writing unfunny stuff (can't think of many good comedy novels, either!).

There's definitely the inherent problem of once you've heard the joke, or the clever rhyme, or the funny imagery, then he next time, and the one after, the impact is lessened. I used to buy comedy DVDs and CDs but rarely do - once you've watched them once, what then? Though it may be just me - I know folks who watch them over and over! But again that probably adds to the weight of seriousness we should apply to the good comedy song / song-writer. Kudos to those who can overcome these issues!

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

I watched 'Ernie' which I haven't seen or heard for a hundred years. Yes, I enjoyed it. Two ton Ted from Teddington made me laugh and that isn't really that funny!
I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much without the video although I would have still laughed at that line.
Probably be another hundred years before I go back to it.......

[GuyBarry]

I think a good test would be to strip out the lyrics and see if the music could stand up on its own.

No, that would not be a good test of a comedy song.  In fact that would be an appalling test of a comedy song.  The whole point about comedy songwriting is the marriage between the lyrics and the music so that the joke is delivered on the right note.  Most comedy tunes are quite distinctive because they're designed to fit the rhythm of comic lyrics.  The fitting of the lyrics to the music is much tighter than in many other genres.  You can't have one syllable sung over several notes, or leave notes out, or play fast-and-loose with the rhymes (at least you can try but the comedy always falls completely flat in my experience).  They have to fit together, absolutely hand in glove.  I love the challenge of writing the stuff but trust me, it's hard work!

And/or remove the music to see if the comedy could stand on its own.

Some comic song lyrics might work as comic poetry, but the two are really quite different genres.  I did recently perform a song which was actually a piece of light verse by Ogden Nash, to which I added a simple tune and chords.  That seemed to work OK but they were very "song-like" lyrics.

Not many that I'm aware of would do too well, I fear.

Indeed they wouldn't - and why should they?  You might as well say "a test of a good novel is to remove the characters to see whether the plot stands on its own, and to remove the plot to see whether the characters stand on their own".  The thing is conceived as a single whole and if you chop it up into pieces then of course it's not going to work.

Admittedly it's quite a harsh test...a lot of the music is signposting when you're supposed to laugh, I think.

You've got it!

[PaulAds]

perry well

[pompeyjazz]

Can comedy be discussed philosophically?

Arse

[pompeyjazz]

I think Mr Chickenfeet that you have tickled quite a few Chickenfeet toes  Luv it. Chickenfeet is not an image I can sleep with without another glass.

Pompeyjazz