[shadowfax]

Hi, exactly, and how does one discern that a track/song is not yer actual rock..but has become prog rock,

just curious guys..

[Boydie]

I am sure everyone will have their own definition but for me straight up rock is more simple; driven guitar, bass and drum driven

If there are keyboards they are supporting and "filling out" the guitars

The lyric themes tend to be a bit more simple and direct

"Prog Rock" to me is a bit more "folky" with more "complex" melodies,

To me (and this is purely a personal opinion as I don't like this genre) I find prog rock a bit pretentious - like it is trying to make "rock music" more "sophisticated"

I like my rock on the "blusier" side of the tracks

I used to feel this way about folk music - but my tastes have changed since listening to the excellent folk songs on this forum

Perhaps the same will happen with "prog rock" but it doesn't do anything for me at the moment - even the "greats" - so don't take it personally 


I noticed you mentioned in the thread on your song that you don't like how music is "pigeon holed"

I must personally disagree as I think it can be really good to stick to a "genre" and use the "tricks of the trade" that have come before and give them a new twist, rather than trying to re-invent the wheel

To be fair though, I am coming from the "pitching" angle where it is better to clearly define a genre to work in

[Paulski]

So, when does Rock become prog rock?

.. when it gets interesting to a musician

[shadowfax]

Nothing personal to take here..just wondering when normal rock turns into so called prog rock...whether someone likes it or not is immaterial...
so it seems that if it becomes more complicated or as boydie says..pretentious,(which is of course in the eye of the beholder) then it's prog rock or as Paul says..it becomes more interesting to a musician..
been googling about and it seems prog rock has been very successful and still is...

Muse is a huge band and until now didn't realise they were prog rock, just thought they were rock..

veeeery intersting...

[tone]

So, when does Rock become prog rock?

I think it's when the guitarist/ keyboardist changes modes AND knows what modes are. Also, if any part of the song is in 7/8 or any other complex compound rhythm ON PURPOSE, it's definitely prog

[Jamie]

Hi, agree with most of the above comments. For me prog rock was born when real musicians who were very capable and trained in some cases, started to develop songs that moved away from the blues/ rock canon. Some themes could sound classical and songs started to lengthen and become more complex from the standard 3 min pop song. Complex time signatures are a theme often used in prog rock. If you want to hear classic prog rock listen to In the court of the Crimson King by King Crimson,foxtrot by Genesis,,close to the edge by Yes, Tarkus by ELP, etc etc..........
Love em or hate em you can't ignore them!

Cheers
Jamie

[Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra]

Paulski says when it gets interesting to a musician which I agree with in some ways. The trouble with the worst prog is that the perpetrators seem to have lost sight of the fact that music is for the listeners not (only) the players. I was there. I even had an album by Yes. I am now in remission.

[delb0y]

If it's got bikes and groupies and whisky and hot-rods and tour-buses and railroad trains and girls girls girlz (or indeed any word where s has been replaced by z), sunglasses, tattoos, blues scales, old blues songs rocked up and claimed as originals, is in 4/4 time only, and doesn't feature yodelling you should be okay. It's rock.

[CaliaMoko]

@Boydie
So does your definition include Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody"? If it does, I know I like at least some prog rock.

@Tone
Changing modes: does that include switching from Ionian mode (as in C major) to Aeolian mode (as in Am, the relative minor to C major)?

I'm fascinated by, umm, the analysis of? music. I'm also mystified by it. I'm working on a song right now that switches from A major (which would be the equivalent of the Ionian mode in the key of A) to Dm (the equivalent of Aeolian mode in the key of F) and back to A major. So I'm switching keys and modes. And I know what modes are. But I don't think this song would count as prog rock. It isn't "rock-y" at all, I don't think. Maybe kind of folky, though.

I could really enjoy getting into examining this, but it's kind of almost off topic...sorry. I'll quit.

[shadowfax]

So, when does Rock become prog rock?

I think it's when the guitarist/ keyboardist changes modes AND knows what modes are. Also, if any part of the song is in 7/8 or any other complex compound rhythm ON PURPOSE, it's definitely prog

LOL..that counts me out then..7/8 time..WHAT!!
is it prog rock if the band all change key at the same time?

[shadowfax]

Paulski says when it gets interesting to a musician which I agree with in some ways. The trouble with the worst prog is that the perpetrators seem to have lost sight of the fact that music is for the listeners not (only) the players. I was there. I even had an album by Yes. I am now in remission.

I know what you mean, I watched a vid on youtube of a band called lifetime that was formed by the bassist of Cream, dunno his name...but it's totally about them doing their thing...

[shadowfax]

If it's got bikes and groupies and whisky and hot-rods and tour-buses and railroad trains and girls girls girlz (or indeed any word where s has been replaced by z), sunglasses, tattoos, blues scales, old blues songs rocked up and claimed as originals, is in 4/4 time only, and doesn't feature yodelling you should be okay. It's rock.

LOL..

nicely described..got it!!!

[shadowfax]

@Boydie
So does your definition include Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody"? If it does, I know I like at least some prog rock.

@Tone
Changing modes: does that include switching from Ionian mode (as in C major) to Aeolian mode (as in Am, the relative minor to C major)?

I'm fascinated by, umm, the analysis of? music. I'm also mystified by it. I'm working on a song right now that switches from A major (which would be the equivalent of the Ionian mode in the key of A) to Dm (the equivalent of Aeolian mode in the key of F) and back to A major. So I'm switching keys and modes. And I know what modes are. But I don't think this song would count as prog rock. It isn't "rock-y" at all, I don't think. Maybe kind of folky, though.

I could really enjoy getting into examining this, but it's kind of almost off topic...sorry. I'll quit.

Lady speaks in strange tongue..do not understand...am becoming confused

[delb0y]

Back when I was taking online guitar lessons with the great jazz player Jimmy Bruno (well worth it, by the way) he said his solos would often get analysed to death by various people - they'd say stuff like (and none of this is an actual quote) "He's substituting an F#min6 for an A major here" or "He's employing the Mixolydian for two bars and then returning to the tonic via the Super Locrian" or "That high Ab, resolving to the Bb, is from the minor blues pentatonic and hints at his blues roots" and Jimmy would say "nope, just played the major scale and used some outside notes - and I should know because they were my solos."

[CaliaMoko]

 

Lady speaks in strange tongue..do not understand...am becoming confused

Yeah, I got wild...   

Song is in A major...switches to D minor for the bridge, then back to A major. But otherwise, it's "normal", so not prog rock, I'm pretty sure.