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3 Traps Songwriters Fall Into

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Friedemann

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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2015, 12:19:43 PM »
Haha ok ok ok! I'll tell you. Yes, Jambrains was right it's Hey Joe. But listening to the first second of I'm a Believer I know it of course, I just didn't know the title. Which may corrupt my entire case ;) But it was meant as more of a joke anyways.

I completely agree that there are "classics" that have gone down in history that'll stick around. And I also agree that there won't be many classics from this generation, although that might be for different reasons.

As for the blog title: It is meant to grab people. I see it as an ad for the text and usually refrain from using similarly strong language during the actual text. Hey, it made all of you click, didn't it? And if I piss some people off, I'm ok with that - as long as some people learn something and do like it.

About "rules": I agree with all of you that the rules can be broken. Often it's what makes songs stand out. My favorite artists (James Blake, Deftones, Avishai Cohen, Stravinsky etc) are all famous for doing something unusual and I love it. THING IS: This "genius" is often something very personal and has a lot to do with the artists identity, and that is something that is near impossible to teach (although I am playing with the idea of a workshop on finding your unique voice).

What boydie said:

Quote
Eg - if I want to write a metal or a heavy rock track I might want to consider using electric guitars, if I want to write folk I would probably pick up my acoustic, if I am writing pop I will dig out my sample cd of swooshy sound fx etc. etc. - the same common themes can apply to structure, lyric content, themes, melodies, mixing etc. etc.

...is exactly how I see it.

@all the self-proclaimed "old farts": I actually completely agree with all of you, very much so. It's just that for Holistic Songwriting, I'm approaching songwriting from a very specific (and often unforgiving) angle: the market. But I am loving this discussion :)
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Boydie

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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2015, 06:43:55 PM »
I completely agree, and appreciate that the "absolute" language helps provoke discussion

To break the rules you got a learn them first!
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Wicked Deeds

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« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2015, 11:22:29 PM »
I suppose we all have learned at least some of the rules and apply them without being too aware that we are doing so.  As a songwriter without a commercial goal, I mainly jump in and follow my nose.  I'm never really dissapointed with the end result and so I can say that I love to write, embracing twists and turns wherever they may occur. So much fun to be had from this approach though I can when I choose to be, very disciplined. my main goal is to please myself.  :)

By the way, I love well written lyrics, the simple stuff bores me. My favourite writers have enjoyed a degree of success without being too simple in their approach to lyric writing in fact they are often deliberately smart in their approach: Lloyd Cole, Roddy Frame, James Grant, Paddy McAloon, Gary Clark, Billy Joel.
Paul Simon - the list goes on and on.

Paul
« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 11:41:51 PM by Wicked Deeds »

adamfarr

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« Reply #48 on: December 21, 2015, 10:27:59 AM »
47 responses and counting, great discussion guys. I know that we don't like to be lectured (and some may baulk if they infer a commercial motive behind the original post) but actually I think the three main takeaways from it make total sense: (i) don't overcomplicate; (ii) use variation to get and keep attention; and (iii) know when to stop tinkering.

I don't think that these are particularly genre specific. In a 3 - 4 minute artform anything we add (melody, lyric, instrumentation, space) should be there for a reason, and a sanity check is always good. That doesn't always mean dumbing down. If we are writing for a specific genre then that will always have its own challenges and, probably yes, rules. If we just want to write the best songs that we can write and effectively transmit what we want to say, then I'd say these thought processes still apply (even if we reject them, considering them will generally be a "Good Thing").

I think that those of us who grew up before the millennium are certainly lucky - looking at the top 40s from those days we were served a radio diet of everything from Queen to Bowie to Joy Division to Nirvana, Punk, Ska, Disco, funk, rap, electro, rock, comedy, wierdness, kitch, ballads, soul, folk, pretty much anything, which consciously or unconsciously we can use to our advantage and flavours what we produce. Today, even though everything is just a mouseclick away, you have to somehow find out that it exists and go and find it, as it's not in the charts.

Boydie

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« Reply #49 on: December 21, 2015, 12:27:09 PM »
Quote
Today, even though everything is just a mouseclick away, you have to somehow find out that it exists and go and find it, as it's not in the charts.

This is exactly why "marketing" is as key to the music business as the music itself - and why labels are still very important despite the decline in sales
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Friedemann

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« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2015, 10:42:02 PM »
I personally think music's never seen better days. Yes, you have to look to find new and original music, but it's out there! It's easier than ever to make music and start a band - and people do!

No, they don't make it into the charts, most won't be able to make a living off of just songwriting (let's be honest, who can?). BUT is that not the greatest thing that could happen to music? Music becoming a medium of passion, not money?

When I became a full-time musician I heard from many people that I wouldn't make any money with it. But I didn't care. It was never about the money.

I believe there are many others like me who now, in this generation, make music because they can, not because they must. If you look in the charts you won't find these people, because as I said it's a different game.

But the new generation still has a lot to offer and if you're smart you can use the internet to your advantage. Think OK Go, Amanda F-in Palmer. Not a lot of fans, but DEDICATED, true fans (does the 1,000 true fan theory ring a bell for anyone here?).

If I was born in 67 I wouldn't be able to do what I can do today. I would've needed a TON of money before I ever would be able to put out music. Now, I can just do it myself, with a program that comes with my Macbook.

I for one love being part of this generation and am VERY excited about what will happen next!
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skogge

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« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2015, 02:25:14 PM »
If I was born in 67

I was born in -67 and have to agree with a lot off stuff here. I can do stuff today that I could not do with my Tascam 244 in the eighties. I can also afford equipment today that was out of reach earlier. Just think of all the cheapie microphones that is more than up to the game. And the price for good software "outboards". I still got a problem with todays "popular" music. I feel like it´s a part of the "dumbing down" of society as of today. Music has no "value" to a big part of the population, and the easier it is to "swallow" the better. And me personally can't stand it. It´s like muzak but more ear-wormy and intrusive. Or "commercial" perhaps. I feel force-fed if I have to listen to commercial radio.But I have found a lot of music well up to par with the best music from yesteryears and beyond. But I have to look for it in the realm of "alternative" music… :D

Friedemann

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« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2016, 09:39:57 AM »
I feel force-fed if I have to listen to commercial radio.

I feel you, have felt like this for a really long time, too. Happy New Year btw :)
"You got to sound gefährlich"

andy5544

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« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2016, 10:08:33 PM »
K.I.S.S.          One Note Song     ;D

I wanted to be a hippy....but my mum wouldn't let me !!

Beware the JudDeRMan when the moon grows FAT !!!!!!!!

JOdejo

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« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2016, 11:54:47 AM »
Is it strange that I finish a song in 1 or 2 days instead of a month? Or do you mean "finish a song" also record all of the voices?
Music explains what words can't

Friedemann

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« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2016, 02:28:04 PM »
Hey JOdejo!

That completely depends on what style you write in and what you mean with "finish". For me, a song is "finished" when I can hear it fully recorded and produced in Itunes ;) It takes me about 5 days to do that well, but I've also done it in 2 days and still get an end product that I'm proud of (but then I need a break of a couple of days ;) ).
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crystalsuzy

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« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2016, 12:44:35 PM »
I'm really sorry I missed this little gem of a discussion :)

You guys are all so awesome, and I agree with what everyone said, to some degree, and that's all

I'm going to say about that ;D  ;D

Friedemann

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« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2016, 01:27:56 PM »
I'm really sorry I missed this little gem of a discussion :)

You guys are all so awesome, and I agree with what everyone said, to some degree, and that's all

I'm going to say about that ;D  ;D

Haha ^^ So agreeable today!
"You got to sound gefährlich"