[LeoVK]

Once I have a song that I am happy with...a chord progression, some melodies, reasonable lyrics etc...then I will work away on it happily and have lots of ideas for arrangements and so on.

However, it's coming up with these starting points that I am having trouble with. I still only have a handful of fully fledged songs. I have a folder on my PC which is jam packed with bits n bobs of ideas for riffs that I have never really been able to find a home for...normally because I have brushed them aside for being "not good enough".

More often than not, when I sit down with my guitar, I will start playing a few progressions for a while that I think sound alright...but then I get this voice in my head that says "Nah, this is a bit too simple" or "I've heard this somewhere before", which then results in me getting in a strop, putting the guitar down and having a coffee and a cigarette instead.

I want to know if there is anyone else that feels like this sometimes and, if so, how do you overcome it? If I start to get a bad feeling about a song or chord pattern,  should I stick with it, add to it and see if it turns into something worth hearing, or should I be feeling really good about it from the outset for it to ever turn into a decent song? Perhaps I am expecting too much from my songs at an early stage?

Not sure whether I have articulated this very well, as it is late and I'm a bit tired. Let me know if that doesn't make a whole lot of sense!

[The Corsair]

I always have a massive amount of unfinished lyrics and snippets of ideas sitting on my iPod. Every so often I'll magically fill out an idea and finish one of these songs. After a while (about 3 months) I do delete the unfinished ideas simply because by then the inspiration is generally too far away to be tapped back into.
Basically, the snippets you have can probably be worked into something bigger, either as a feature or a tiny part. Just wait a bit and keep trying them out. Also, it doesn't matter if sonething is 'too simple' because most of the people who hear your music won't know whether it's simple or not but they will know if it sounds good.

[Ramshackles]

I will generally come up with hundreds of ideas before producing a song. Many of these will come and go in the space of minutes, others will sit unfinished for ages, others which I think are finished will just be forgotten. I doesnt annoy me, its just part of the process. Have you tried going through your ideas and trying to stick them together? A few of the songs I write are really 2 or 3 song fragments that have been adjusted to fit together

[tone]

You have to learn to let go and trust the process. Each of us has a different creative pace, and yours may be slower than someone else's. But then your songs might be better, too.

Having ideas you don't like or can't use is an essential part of the writing process.  It's unrealistic to expect every idea to turn into a great song, and throwing away the not-so-good ideas helps to make room for the stuff you really want to work on.

With regard to an idea being too simple, I'd say don't be too quick to judge. Some of the best songs I know are incredibly simple when you strip them back to their bare bones.

Good luck on your writing journey

[The Corsair]

That's a fair point tone, though it can be equally good to build the other way. I've had the odd experience with starting a whole song from an acoustic riff or chord progression and building up from there, figuring out the vocals and how everything fits in. It basically creates a song that can be heavily built-up but sounds down to basics. panic at the disco's Pretty Odd is a great example of an album done this way.
I think in LeoVK's case, this method of creating music could be incredibly powerful as he has a very techno sound in his music which often makes it difficult to get down to basics from a fully worked out song.

[LeoVK]

Thanks for all your replies!

I think I do just need to try and relax a bit more. I think I have always tried to see the "end result" when I've started writing a song and, if I can't clearly see it, that's when I get frustrated and think that maybe it's not going anywhere.

[Harbidge]

I dont think any body on earth is really that prolific with writing songs apart from Ryan Adams.

I believe the more you play your instrument the better chance you have of writing a song.  Unfortunatley songs dont often come in a flash.  I have only ever written 3 songs in one sitting the other 70 have been a hard slog of going over stuff and making it work.

I have had a fantastic chorus and riff for about 10 years on the go and am still struggleing to find the right verse.  I think when you have that kind of song its good to give it to another songwriter to add to or finish.

Songwriting is never easy in my experience.  Getting those little sparks of originality are the hardest things to ignite.

[spacedogg]

Hi guys, hope you don't mind if i join in. I think its important to mention that many songwriters and lyricists can be their own worst enemies and will often brutally destroy a possible song long before it has ever had the chance to show its potential. If you recognise and accept this then you can go a long way towards maybe giving some of your more unusual ideas a fair chance. Even if I start to dislike an idea that I've had, I usually try it out in many, many ways from the original before I might eventually put it to one side. Different tempos, styles, instruments, effects etc. might show it as being something worth pursuing (that you may not have previously thought of). In the past I've brought entire songs to recorded completion not having been convinced of their value right up to the very last second and only then did I discover their true worth.

[Harbidge]

Hi Spacedog

I think you are spot on.  I have other songwriters I lean on some times, ones I respect, who will help me filter riffs and ideas but sometimes you have a gut feeling in a riff no one else gets.  Thats when I really work at it, try it 1000 different ways, sometimes you will still throw a good riff away because it doesnt fit with anything.  Thats when you need other songwriters.  They will always hear things you dont.  I often wonder about  the song ideas I have thrown away, I wonder if any one else could have made sense of them.

Id like to get some idea swapping going on here (jumping the gun here but equal splits on anything worked on by others even if its just a chord or a line)

[Mr.Chainsaw]

Problem I have is I write a riff or chorus that to me is "gold". Is sit back and think "Wow, that's awesome. I like that alot". Then the ideas dry up.

So it sits there, and you keep coming back to it thinking "I need to do something with this. It's a waste if I don't". This then goes on for a while or so, rejecting ideas because they aren't good enough for you "perfect" idea.

Eventually you realise that your totaly invested in this one idea, and the longer you torture yourself over it, the better the accompaniment (verse, melody, whatever) has to be. Like, after 3 months the rest of the song has to be worth 3 months of self torture, which it's never gonna be!

So I end up with a ton of lines and licks that I love but can't do much with.

I think this all boils down to needing to chill out and think clearly about why I'm even writing. I.e. for my own enjoyment.

Anyone else get that problem?

[Harbidge]

I have this problem to.  I generally have to really stick at it and even force myself out of my comfort zone to get bits that fit.  If I really cant get a song finished or only have a great chorus I will always either sit down with one of my song writing friends and jam it out with them or just email them the mp3 of the chorus and wait for them to add their ideas and take it from there. 

Im not that precious with my songwriting, yes its great to write an amazing tune on your own but theres no shame in getting some one else to finish a song,  you owe it to the song to get it done however you can. lennon and mccartney did it.

Its a shame to let a song dissappear because you cant finish it.

[LeoVK]

you owe it to the song to get it done however you can

Its a shame to let a song dissappear because you cant finish it.

That's a nice quote. I think I will try and remember that the next time I find myself in this situation...makes me feel like I am letting "someone" else down otherwise!