The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Resources & Marketing => Topic started by: Alan Starkie on July 30, 2013, 04:13:09 PM
-
Just been sat in front of the PC searching out and emailing about 50 publishers for permission to submit work. Email's sent. Now the wait. The positive is - I'm only looking for one publisher to give me a cut. One out of fifty is do-able.
Anyone else doing the do?
-
Good luck Alan, just the one will do! Terry.
-
No one else submitting to publishers? On a songwriter forum?
This is very surprising. I wasn't expecting that.
-
Alan,
I'm intending to, but currently using my time to build a body of songs whilst I'm between jobs..
When you e-mail what approach works best? I presume you either include an MP3 or link to soundcloud and ask for a meeting??
And compared to the paying for a service such as Xraymusic? I'm a bit cynical and prefer the shared risk and reward of the published approach....
:)
Neil
-
Hi Alan,
I aim to pitch to labels and publishers etc too. Problem in that I'm only a lyricist and that many of the demos from my collabs are rough 'bare bone demos' that lack a full production. I have pitched one completed track to publishers that I accessed via the GISC song search ads in their magazine but nothing came of it.
Like Neil I tend t stay away from Xray and Taxi and pay for pitch sites. I'd rather know a publisher is going to try to get a placement so they can earn rather than pay them money to stick a track in an on-line catalogue they rarely promote or tend to.
-
Hi Neil,
You'll never get a meeting so don't bother asking.
Don't attach mp3's unless specifically asked. They don't like that.
Have a look at the MPA Online. Go through and send links and a short bio to the pubs accepting unsolicited emails first. Then go through all the others in your genre sending an email asking for permission to submit.
There's a lot and they only let you submit 5 emails an hour so it's going to take a while.
I've used most submission sites with varying degrees of success.
MusicXray is the only one ive not had any success with but ill just persevere with it.
Alan.
-
I will.but only with a co-writer.......me and Flossie have a song that`s strong enough,,in fact she has touted it and it got some favourable response.....
Soon i will be working with a guitarist hoping to develop a song or two...and if they produce well ..i will show them.......i have a contact in the music industry,,,,who could do a whole lot of good at the right time..but it`s finding the right material that turns that key..
I have a single goal and that`s to be a one hit wonder :D..seriously ,to write.compose a well known song...i`m not greedy!!
-
I have a single goal and that`s to be a one hit wonder :D..seriously ,to write.compose a well known song...i`m not greedy!!
In an interview Don McClean was asked "What does American Pie mean?" he replied "It means that I don't ever have to work again if I don't want to" so I think you have a plan there :)
-
I have a single goal and that`s to be a one hit wonder :D..seriously ,to write.compose a well known song...i`m not greedy!!
A HUGE plus 1 to that!!! Just one song that brings in the dough would suffice for me, although I'd imagine that once you get the 'hit' all of your other work would automatically go up in the estimation of the industry and it could be a case that some less well written stuff suddenly becomes 'better' and cuts the mustard! Like everything though it is about getting that first foot in through the door which at the min seems nigh on impossible for me and probably will be for the foreseeable future :(
-
Yes ,i was at work today stuffing red peppers :P
And was thinking about this..cos it is my main thing and i do forget it...anyway,it struck me that maybe the era of the `classic` song is over?
I mean whens the last time you heard a new song and thought wow..that`s a future classic..maybe some of Adeles stuff might go down that way..i don`t know!!
The one hit wonder for example as to be a particular type of song......it doesn`t have to be well written ,,just right for the moment..
Can`t think of a better one than these two.
and
Anyway just keep plugging away and see what occurs. :)
-
Yes ,i was at work today stuffing red peppers :P
And was thinking about this..cos it is my main thing and i do forget it...anyway,it struck me that maybe the era of the `classic` song is over?
I mean whens the last time you heard a new song and though wow..that`s a future classic..maybe some of Adeles stuff might go down that way..i don`t know!!
The one hit wonder for example as to be a particular type of song......it doesn`t have to be well written ,,just right for the moment..
Can`t think of a better one than these two.
and
Anyway just keep plugging away and see what occurs. :)
I think you'll struggle to find any classic song in todays charts. IMO the days of well written songs by guys like Dylan, Simon etc are gone and now its all about cursing each other and silly catchy crap (kinda like the dross i WRITE ONLY INFINITELY BETTER!!!!). i THINK GUYS LIKE jAKE bUGG ETC ARE MORE ATTUNED TO THE CLASSIC STYLE AND WHILE THEIR MUSIC IS GREAT IT DOESN'T GET ANYWHERE NEAR THE AIRING OF cALL ME mAYBE, hOW YA dOIN, gANGNUM sTYLE, oNE pOUND FISH ETC!!!!!
-
Yes there`s only a few good songwriters about capable of writing stuff that stops you dead in your tracks....even the songs that get temporary fame..aren't all that good..the one hit wonders these days like Gangnam style.....don`t really linger enough in the mind... ???
-
One that I think is lyrically quite good at the minute is 'True Love' by P!nk. Lyrical genius. Also Avicis new song 'Wake me up' is also lyrically very strong and clever. They also have dance Pop feel to them which makes them catchy but probably detracts somewhat from the lyrical strength of the two songs.
-
Call me maybe is amazing! It's quite well written and is like the catchiest thing EVER! I think people like Bruno Mars, Katy Perry, P!nk, etc aren't recognised enough for their songwriting talent, they can be overshadowed by all the crap club music...like everyone hated 'summertime sadness' by lana del rey but now that some dj has made a remix version it's storming the charts! Also feel slightly for country artists like Kacey Musgraves (I recently discovered her and she is one of the most amazing songwriters!) because they are constantly outshone by Taylor swift who seems to be the only country star the charts will accept.
What is my generation doing to music!? (My deepest apologies)
-
I like summer time sadness like it is..i heard the remix..thought it was junk..but this is the trouble......the bars getting lowered in the mainstream....bit like Hollywood looking to comic books as their main pool of inspiration to the next big movie....dumb it down ???
-
Mot sure I agree with your STC, its a bit like you tend to forget the wet summers of your childhood. There always a large amount of music for the moment ( good, bad and indifferent ) and then you get occasional timeless tunes, which become classics over time and we'll all have different opinions depending upon tastes and eras, which is great.
Like beauty its in the eye of the beholders - and playlisters I guess....
:)
Neil
-
Mot sure I agree with your STC, its a bit like you tend to forget the wet summers of your childhood. There always a large amount of music for the moment ( good, bad and indifferent ) and then you get occasional timeless tunes, which become classics over time and we'll all have different opinions depending upon tastes and eras, which is great.
Like beauty its in the eye of the beholders - and playlisters I guess....
:)
Neil
Well in a way your right i`m sure some of `this` generation think there`s some right old classics being made..and will reminisce over them in time..
But rather like the old actors and the great films they made...it`s sort of gone....it`s a digitised,produced, formula ,money, based mentality in the entertainments world....
I just don`t hear the tunes that will hang around..... :)
-
The music business has always been about money and nothing else. Business being the key word.
The greatest musician/songwriter/actor in the world will get dropped if they stop making money for 'the company'.
You don't like it. I don't like it. but it has always and will always be the case.
After all, if it wasn't based on money, you'd have never even heard The Beatles or U2 or Frank Sinatra etc...
-
IMO getting songs placed with major artists (which is after all what every publisher and writer is trying to do) is almost a closed shop. There's a lot less cash in the industry now with the songwriting side one of the few ways for most to make some money.
Which is why so many hit singles have numerous 'writers' on them, whether the producer (who is no longer getting the cut he used to from the mechs) or the artist (who does f all but wants the public to think he/she does) etc. etc. You hear so much average music in the charts because the people who 'influence' the leading artists are extremely reluctant to lose these valuable revenue stream.
IMO Ed Sheeran's 'A Team' is a brilliant song. A critical and commercial success. But it was played to publishers for two years and no one was interested. I can imagine the feedback he got "yeah it's a nice song but I'm just not hearing a hit"
Publishers aren't really interested in brilliant songs - they'd rather have an average song that's marketed brilliantly
-
Publishers aren't really interested in brilliant songs - they'd rather have an average song that's marketed brilliantly
Dreams.Shattered. :(
-
Yes but you have to start somewhere and there are plenty of opportunities out there, the world is a big place and when thinking about marketing songs you now need to think globally.
Also, social media and youtube is a terrific way to get noticed, don't be disheartened Jess, in some ways it's easier to make it now than it was before!
(Still difficult though! ;D ;D ;D)
Tenacity is the key! And erm talent helps too!
-
Yes but you have to start somewhere and there are plenty of opportunities out there, the world is a big place and when thinking about marketing songs you now need to think globally.
Also, social media and youtube is a terrific way to get noticed, don't be disheartened Jess, in some ways it's easier to make it now than it was before!
(Still difficult though! ;D ;D ;D)
Tenacity is the key! And erm talent helps too!
:D mwah :-*
-
Hee hee! :P
I have children and its holidays and I have done very little musically and I've missed loads here. Won't be back here much til September. Can't resist a sneaky peak on this amazing forum though! ;D
-
Won't be back here much til September.
You may want to have a little look on the finished songs section...one of your songs may have made a little comeback... ;)
-
Publishers aren't really interested in brilliant songs - they'd rather have an average song that's marketed brilliantly
Dreams.Shattered. :(
Sorry Jess didnt mean to do that!
Like Flossie said there are opportunities out there however the challenge is not just to write great songs, but to also create networks, relationships, a strong following and ergo industry attention - such that you find someone prepared to take a punt on you.
Its probably a bit harder now since there's less cash/investment around but there are opportunities..... slightly OT but......
From a artist/songwriter perspective I thought Gabrielle Aplin's progress has been interesting. Signed by a Major on the back of some good songs and a HUGE Youtube following (based mostly on covers). The label invests a decent amount of cash and releases a couple of okay EP's - although the singles underperformed and major radio play was limited (chicken/egg).
At this point the major must have been pulling their hair out. THEN an opportunity comes from John Lewis to cover an xmas track. Bid won, JL uses song in intensive TV campaign and effectively gives track the kind of marketing push that would cost £m
Single goes #1, BBC/Cap 'A' Playlist, Album #1, Re-releases all 'A' playlisted and chart.
So its interesting that thats the way the music business seems to be going. Presumably JL and Parlaphone did some kind of revenue share = win-win.
-
Hi Alan
I have been sending stuff out for a few years now. I've got about 10 songs published with publishers in Nashville and here in England. I've just heard from a publisher in Nashville that a female singer is cutting 2 of my songs and I'll be getting a cheque for $400 - split 50/50 with the publisher of course! - and then if the CD sells any copies I might get a few extra dollars. That was one of those out of the blue emails. I'd forgotten all about those 2 songs as the publisher had them for a couple of years now.
I also get some good contacts from Bandit which comes out monthly and the subscription is £9/month and Songlink is good but a lot more expensive, around £25/30 a month. Reverbnation and Songsalive have good contacts too. I listened to your stuff and I particularly like the first song, it has great chorus and a real Oasis feel. As some else said, your songs have an uplifting vibe about them. One question, where do you record your stuff? I have the vocals recorded in Nashville and I record the rest of the instruments in my studio at home.
Phil
-
Very interesting read .. :D :D :D
There is one comment by flossie to Jess caught my eyes .. it's easier now then before .. quite right ..
I remember I had to save money to make my demo songs when I was at collage .. rent a studio time .. play the musicians .. and after all that .. no one was interested to hear my songs .. no one to send it to .. I still have those old recordings .. and no one heard them yet .. but now what ever I write .. post it on the internet .. at least .. I have the distinguished members of this forum to hear my songs .. that is a great plus believe you me ..
-
Hi Phil,
Give me a link to your songs. I'd like a listen :-)
I record everything at my studio at work where I teach.
Do you use asongparadise or awritersparadise in Nashville at all?
I had some licenses through them. They do long distance demo work too as do a lot of Nashville studios!
I've got a US record company releasing one of my songs this month and another at Christmas but, as The Stones once said on their 25th anniversary - '20 years hanging around doing nothing and 5 years work'
It really is a waiting game. Keep plodding on....
Alan.
-
Hi Alan
I use a guy called Scott in Nashville, an amazing guitarist and top bloke, and he gets me vocalists. He records acoustic guitar and vocals, then I put everything else down in my small studio. A few times I have used a whole band in Nashville, when they do something called a "slam" when musicians play all day in a studio and songwriters can book a time for them to record your song. The musicianship is brilliant but the arrangement always need tweaking, like adding a tambourine, strings or more guitars. It is really cheap but they don't do it often.
I can't sing a note and write all my melodies on the keyboard with my right hand and basic chords in the left. I then add a VERY rough vocal over it and send it off with the arrangement.
Another good resource is Jango.com. I don't know if you've heard of it but it's an internet radio and for $10 a month you can get 300 plays. You then get "fans" when they hear your music and subscribe to your website on Jango.
I've a variety of songs on 2 websites, www.reverbnation.com/philaturner and soundcloud/phil-turner
One of the songs I'm getting released is not on there but there's a cross-section of stuff.
Phil
-
Just pitched to another 15 publishers.
TV/Movie/Artist... Bring it on!!!
Got 3 new finished demos but can't record the master versions. My new place is WAY TOO NOISY so going to have to relocate my studio equipment.
-
how did you guys pitch to publishers? did you use a service or send them emails directly? I actually haven't pitched directly to publishers before, but I am going to start doing that. I usually write a song and after its done make a list of the Top 5 artists that I think it would be a good fit for. Then I just get the artist contact info off of Bookingagentinfo.com and shoot them off emails. I haven't been very successful doing this as I have only gotten 1 placement. Any advice that yall can give me on reaching out to publishers would be great....Thanks in advance.
-
Also, quick question. I know this is probably a dumb question but how do you usually protect yourselfs from somebody stealing your song when you send them out to publishers?
-
Joining a songwriters guild is usually a good shout to protect yourself. I'm a member of the GISC and whilst its £60 they have a copyrighting service free to members, they have an evaluation service free to members and also some - but very limited - links to publishers etc via their news sheets. Worth a look into in your case I reckon.
-
On the copyright issue I'd say two things.
1) stick your music on something public where it's time stamped (like YouTube etc.) that way you can prove you loaded it on a certain date
2) it's kind of irrelevant, since in reality the chance of someone passing off your song as there's is extremely small. The only time I've heard of it happening recently was indie but fairly successful electro musician who had his songs uploaded to a number of sync agencies. He was able to put it right quickly as already had them on YouTube. I'd say there's almost zero chance a major writer/artist would steal another song - at least to the point where anything could ever be proven
-
On the copyright issue I'd say two things.
1) stick your music on something public where it's time stamped (like YouTube etc.) that way you can prove you loaded it on a certain date
2) it's kind of irrelevant, since in reality the chance of someone passing off your song as there's is extremely small. The only time I've heard of it happening recently was indie but fairly successful electro musician who had his songs uploaded to a number of sync agencies. He was able to put it right quickly as already had them on YouTube. I'd say there's almost zero chance a major writer/artist would steal another song - at least to the point where anything could ever be proven
I'm not sure about other industries, but in hip-hop I've heard of it happening a few times. Look at these articles:
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.9315/title.timbaland-accused-of-stealing-beats
http://www.musictimes.com/articles/1328/20130911/nicki-minaj-producer-red-one-sued-allegedly-stealing-starships-beat.htm
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.21194/title.producer-kenoe-accuses-just-blaze-of-stealing-his-beat
-
TBH I don't know much about hip hop so can't really comment. However there's a huge amount of sampling in that genre so I'm not surprised.
Outside of that it's very rare and like I said, loading your music onto something like YouTube is a great way to date/time stamp your music.