The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Writing Process => Topic started by: tone on August 29, 2010, 08:37:43 PM
-
If any of you are like me, you've got a ton of half finished songs. In my case they're usually musically complete with either rubbish lyrics, or a single verse only.
Do you manage to finish your half finished songs over time, or do they end up abandoned in the notebook, never to see the light of day? I find that much as I want to finish some of my half finished songs, I seem to lose the feel of them after a while and never get them done.
How do you deal with yours?
-
iv got a lot of verses that are unfinished i keep them in a word doc then when i get stuck on a song i have a flick threw for inspiritan and sometimes a verse fits perfectly
as an idea you could allways try turning them into songs for commericals their only normally 30 secs long
-
Mine usually get finished or dumped entirely. At the moment I have what I think is a great verse but I am having trouble matching it up with a chorus of the same quality, I have been through 3 choruses in the last week that fit but are not good enough. I will get there though.
I tend to have quite a few songs on the go at any one time. At the moment I probably have about 10 songs in my head that are 80% finished, nothing on paper, I have never written a song down. Only constant playing keeps them in my memory and eventually they will get finished and burnt to CD. I also have a mental bank of odd verses, chrouses and riffs that could come in handy at some point. Although I dump anything that doesn't meet my standards, some parts can always be salvaged, the odd clever lyric or chord change etc.
-
I once started to write an song in 1994 and it wasn't until 2006 that I completed it. I now believe, that it's possibly one of the strongest songs that I've written. When I started to write the song I had little knowledge of music theory and relied solely on my sense of hearing to construct pleasing chord sequences. Eventually the songwriting God's took pity on me and helped navigate the music in the direction that it needed to be. In hindsight, I know that I was able to finish the lyrics because I had aquired more experiences and was able to bring a new perspective/idea to the song. So, I'd say never give up on an unfinished song that you have a really strong feeling about, even when you think it is impossible to find that missing chord or lyrical idea. I now tend to complete the majority of songs that I start to write. Occasionaly I don't and eventually forget the initial idea. However, the strongest ideas demand to be finished. I'll either sing the melody or easily recall the chord sequence and rhythm of the song, years after first discovering it. It's almost as if time provides a quality control service, helping you to focus your efforts on your strongest compositions!
This is a really good thread. It would be great to hear peoples thought's about this one!
Paul
-
I think the key is discipline. I may not always practice what I preach though haha.
Ususally if I leave one song to work on another it is because in one way o another I am having some difficulty with it... Either I can't find the right lyrics or I have the chords for my verse and chorus but can't seem to find the bridge or something other that is making me impatient or frustrated. On "Pyjama Girl" a song I am currently stuck in the middle of, it is because I have written and recorded all the instruments in a key which is actually a little too high for my vocal range! lol So I am getting frustrated with it.
I think the best thing to do, in my experience is to not allow yourself to give up. Make yourself fix the problem. Be tough! Even if you have to leave it for a day and then come back to it. Make yourself do it!
As musicians we are our own bosses and it is really easy to be easy on ourselves. Imagine the work is commissioned and needs to be ready for a deadline. It really does help :)
-
I have 77! It's mostly because I come up with little couplets and verses during the day then try to expand on them with little success. I did have one set of lyrics that I battled with for a long time. In the end I came to the realisation there was nothing more I could do with them and the lyrics were all they were every going to be. I'm not entirely satisfied but it's not as if anyone is going to be reading those lyrics or hearing that song anytime soon.
-
That's why it's great to have a partner to collaborate with... Think, Lennon & McCartney.
I think you really need a co-writer by the sounds of it :p
I really wish I had one most of the time haha
-
Nowadays, i do finish most songs, it just takes me a while to finish them...
I actually find it hard to know or tell when a song is finished :-X
there always is enough that can be approved
it is perhaps a bit off topic, but when do you know when a song is really finished?
-
it is perhaps a bit off topic, but when do you know when a song is really finished?
Ever seen the matrix? Finishing a song is like being in love - no one can tell you you're finished, you just feel it from balls to bone. :D
Of course the other way of seeing it is to say that no song is ever finished, and that it's a dynamic thing capable of taking many forms
-
The best piece of advice I was given not too long ago by a very accomplished musician and composer was to add and add and then add some more to a song. More instruments, more melodies,... add some nice counterpoint keep adding and adding. Then at the end you can always take away what you don't want or need.
It works for me, although some of my songs... even the most recent ones... I finish and then weeks later after hearing it some more want to add some brass or extra backing vocals or something :p
So I guess really, like Tone says, a song is never finished :) You just have to be happy with it.
-
I have some lines and verses and choruses throughout my notebook that just don't fit with anything I right, but I keep them there as I know someday they will click with something I write.... I hope!
-
I have a gang of unfinished songs, some will get recycled into new songs and others will probably disappear into the ether. It's a shame becasue all of them meant something when I wrote them. I even have fully finished songs that I forget, I like to think of it as my internal quality control mechanism. I'll remember the good ones!
-
I look upon my half finished songs as a sort of quarry to raid when i'm ready to start recording my next song. I listen back to my rough tapes and try to pick out the best one. Rather frustratingly, i find my best ideas when i've started recording, so i often have to bin what i've started and start again.
-
Sometimes I think a song is finished and it really isn't - sometimes I think a song is half finished and it's really finished.
-
My songwriting technique is:-
1. Think up a really good tune in my head.
2. Improvise random words and nonsense so I'm not humming along.
3. Write down this improv as the lyrics, assuring myself I will return later and write better lyrics.
4. Come back two weeks later, decide those lyrics are fine.
5. Fin.
:P
I think the benefit of my style of lyric writing is that if it is truly terrible, I'll just come back and think up new verses on the fly, and repeat until I have something competent. It's become a recurring habit of having a really good song with absolute crap for lyrics, and just sitting on it for about a year. Then, at 5am one night, picking up my guitar and knocking off a really decent set of lyrics for it in about 10 minutes.
-
it is perhaps a bit off topic, but when do you know when a song is really finished?
I heard this great quote once, don't know who it's by, but it goes "art is never finished, it's always abandoned". I like the sound of that. And I think for me, a song feels finished if I've played it in public a number of times and don't feel the need to change any of it. I'm still tweaking old songs, putting new solos in, taking verses out, rewriting choruses. I find rewriting the lyrics harder though, its so much more tempting to scrap a song than rewrite lyrics. I'm really bad at choruses and I've got one in particular that I cringe at every time I sing it.
-
Rewriting lyrics is a near impossibility for me. Especially if the song has had time to settle. Recapturing the spirit of the song always seems to elude me.
I like the quote though - think I'm going to remember that.
-
i write rap, so i tend to focus on lyrics only. i find i have to write a song in one block, then come back later and tweak lyrics here and there, adding new ones in where needed. then i rehearse to make sure its all in rhythym, and voila!, bobs ur uncle
-
Unfinished songs seem to be par for the course. But it depends how prolific you are as to whether or not it's important.
When I first stared writing, every note was precious. Every phrase had to be used as I never knew if there were any more coming. But as I realised the "well of inspiration" might not be as shallow as I thought, some ideas which didn't come together quickly, I realised could be left behind.
I still revisit them every so often and occasionally they pop into my head dragging the "missing" piece with them. ;D Those are joyful days.
But sometimes I don't think any of my songs will ever be finished, but the law of diminishing returns kicks in.
At some point you just have to say that will do, and leave everything else up to whoever is playing them. Their interpretation will probably be slightly different from the original idea. Even the author, playing the song a year later, will probably play it slightly differently. :-\
Mihkay
-
I sometimes think writing songs is like raising kids, when they are young and you have them to yourself you can mould them and shape them and help them become as great as they can be but as soon as they go out into the big world they are not yours alone anymore and if you try to interfere you could end up damaging them. As soon as other people hear a song it stops being "your" song and starts being their song as well and if you start trying to change it you can ruin it for others. I know a song is finished when i am happy for others to listen to it.
Does that make any sense? or am i just odd?
Cheers!
Liam.
-
makes sense to me
-
I'd be happy if I could get past the first bar without saying this is bollocks lol
-
Id be happy if i could get past the first bar without going in for a couple pints and a few rum chasers lol!
liam.
-
I always wanted to build a bar in my house :)
-
or a studio in my bar
i forgot ???