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Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: montydog on May 22, 2020, 12:50:26 PM
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Hello fellow songwriters,
This is the title track of my latest album. It is a bit more edgy than my usual songs. It isn't about anyone in particular, I just tried to imagine how angry someone would be if their partner royally screwed up their family. All feedback is appreciated.
M
https://soundcloud.com/alan-walker-4/smoke-and-bone
South Dakota Wednesday morning
Empty hours dawn is calling
You're weighing heavy on my mind
We said some things that needed saying
But something got broken
Got left behind
I can't take what you're saying
The words you use are too unkind
I can't see where you're walking
Am I going crazy or running blind
Cause you're the daughter of smoke and bone
A liar, deceiver, unbeliever and reaper
Of every bad seed you've ever sown
And every soul you've ever owned
God help you
If we ever meet again
I'll be first to wipe
Away your stain
Out on the plains the grass is moving
Like wind on water across the waves
In the dark a child is crying
Salt tears for the mother
He couldn't find
We built a house, kept out the demons
You burned it down to save your pride
Now I'm standing in the ruins
Watching my life slowly unwind
'Cause you're the daughter of smoke and bone
A liar, deceiver, unbeliever and reaper
Of every bad seed you've ever sown
And every soul you've ever owned
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Well, the sound is good, as always. I never get tired of your voice.
Now, this song--you mention it is from the point of view of an angry person. To me, the soft sound and relaxed tempo make it feel more like the protagonist is sad, depressed, despondent. For anger, I want a faster, more driving beat, more dissonant sounds, a louder and less mellow voice. Something that signifies fury more than depression. Make it sound like a raging thunderstorm.
Just my opinion, of course. Maybe this guy is really good at controlling his anger...
So that's my 2-cents' worth.
Vicki
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Alan,
Nice one with that mid tempo Americana feel to it.
Good wordscape as ever, I like the way you describe the emotion without being explicit as to what went on.
Lovely guitar outro
Going to have another spin.
:-)
Neil
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'you're the daughter of smoke and bone' - what a great line, sounds like one of those old Shakespearean insults. You certainly get the idea. The 'every soul you've owned' was a little more ambiguous to me - is she the devil? Or did she just steal (other) mens' souls?
Guitars and slide are suitably dramatic and atmospheric. The one thing I didn't really get on with was the drums - I agree they have an 'edginess' but I wasn't sure the cymbal sounds really suited the rest of the song.
Anyhow, a strong song - great storytelling from you as usual, and very evocative of many possible backstories making us wonder what exactly she did.
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@montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653)
Hi Alan, up to your normal singing and lyrical standards! Love the slide stuff and the organ tone. Great solo on the outro, very Dire Straits 8)I didn't mind the drums, I think the 'splashiness 'of the cymbals put me off a little.
Nice one!
Cheers
Jamie
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Your storytelling is always up there with the best but gotta agree with @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) on this one... :)
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It's a good song but as Vicki said, I didn't get the vibe you were looking for from it. I often get that criticism from my lyricist Neil, he envisages a song as an angry rocker and i do it as a ballad. So I suppose it is in the eye of the beholder at the end of the day.
The lyrics are good and tell the story, but I feel it needs to be either more angry musically and therefore vocally or more minor and melancholy.
Take nothing away from the performance though, Some lovely work!
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Hi Alan
Sounds really lovely...a very cool slice of Americana. Instrumentation is perfect.
I think the vocal throws up an interesting dilemma. I listen to a lot of audiobooks...and the narrator can kill a book stone dead...or make you more than happy to listen to any old twaddle. I reckon the thing that kills things for me is over-dramatisation of a lyric...I started reading a potted history of WW2 by a well-known modern historian...and the narrator was doing this ridiculously patronising voice where he found it necessary to deliver every sentence about the Germans as though he was scraping something off the sole of his brogues...and injected a kind of "Winston Churchill meets Noel Coward" sentiment into everything the Allies did. I couldn't stand more than half an hour and got a refund.
You have such a smooth voice...and I think you know how best to use it...it might not have worked if you'd tried to inject oodles of vitriol into the song. The lyric makes the sentiment pretty clear.
The other related thing that gave me pause for thought was that it often seems that in my own life, i've found that many people have a tendency not to take seriously how much i mean something if i'm not making a drama out of it.
So...whilst I did initially think that the vocal delivery was slightly at odds with the lyric...I think you did right in not straying from your winning formula.
It's such a great title too...a super song.
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This works for me Alan. It does seem a little bit more edgy to some of your other stuff. I kinda liked the way that you kept the vocals restrained, almost as if you're just holding it all together before you totally lose it :) Liked the slightly dirty drum sound and great instrumentation as ever. Another quality offering from you @montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653)
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Reminded me a little in the beginning of moments in Raising Sand..
As the writer of many dark lyrics, delivered in a kinda dead-pan way, I am not disturbed by the contradiction between words and delivery... I can see why it's being brought up but I quite like that.. The story is clear... It gives a kind of melancholy to the piece rather than just anger.. and then you do bring a certain amount of anger into lines such as.. "You burned it down...." and the "bad seed" refs...
And I gotta say I love the "smoke and bone" line.. and beautiful guitar work..
It's a hit for me :)
K
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Hi Alan, from the haunting intro you can tell this is going to be a little more edgy for you. I think you are a master of understatement and therefore I think there is the right level of vitriol in your voice, it's just not your style to be over dramatic, so the vocal delivery is fine by me - e.g. 'You burned it down', 'every bad seed..' there's enough drama there and extra emphasis.
Great narrative in the lyrics, describing a sinner without being too specific of her sins. The guitar outro is very lovely inviting you to ponder over the story you've just heard. Very well constructed, the song easily flows and despite all those lyrics to get through seems to over in a flash. Very good 👍
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Hi Alan,
I think the others have all touched upon this; I wouldn't expect you to sing like Johnny Rotten, nor he like you.
For me, restrained anger is like an unexploded bomb, and therefore all the more dangerous as you don't know what devastation it may cause.
And that's the sense I get from your delivery.
I certainly got an edgier feel without it being explicit.
Outro solo is very classy - Chris Rea/Dire straits.
Works for me.
Digger
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Good tune @montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653) with some really fine lyric writing.
This is the first song of yours that I have heard and my first thought was that I wanted to hear your vocals with a little more space around them.
Love that guitar outro as well.
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Hello,Alan, @monty,
A wonderful crystal clear production to be very proud of. I am so impressed with the music for this very cool song.
Paul
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You know I love your voice Alan it is what attracted me to ask you to collaborate, this one just feels like a chain with one link missing both lyrically and melodically, I can't put my finger on what it is exactly but I can't see this one flying. Geoff
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Hi Alan, you always have awesome rich productions on your songs and musically this one does not disappoint. I also like all of the lyrics except..."salt tears", just seems like a tiny over write there. I actually think that just "tears" would sing better there aswell. (Just my opinion mate.😁👍🏻)
Melodically I found the verses catchier than the chorus....just an observation, I listened 3 times.👍🏻
As for the vocal delivery...( now u know I like your singing) I just feel that you sang well but on this song your acting could have been a bit better...I hope your not offended by that mate. Just being honest. The line that you absolutely nailed for me was " you burned it down!" I could feel your emotion there....but on the "God help you if we ever meet again...wipe away your stain" lines I felt nothing....in fact u might have been telling her you love her the melody and your singing is so sweet there.
Now I'm no expert and my vocal performance default seems to always be set to "sad" I have trouble making happy songs sound happy!!🤪 But to me it is really so important to sell that story with your voice aswell as the instruments/lyrics.
I hope this helps mate. Goodluck with the album.😁🎶👊🏻🎶
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Hola Alan, I really enjoyed your song, it has a catching rhythm and your voice, as @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) says, is beautiful.
The lyrics describe the scene perfectly, the emotions and thoughts of that story. Very cool ballad.
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@montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653) - woof woof Mr Dog, it was the title that drew me in, really dig it, like the placement of the instruments, I'm a sucker for the pedal steel too.
Maybe there's a bit of potential for BV's in the verses.
Nice picking along the outro, what gtr was that?
Sublime production Alan.
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It's thank you time. All comments appreciated. Thanks to those who took the time. Specifically:
Well, the sound is good, as always. I never get tired of your voice.
Now, this song--you mention it is from the point of view of an angry person. To me, the soft sound and relaxed tempo make it feel more like the protagonist is sad, depressed, despondent. For anger, I want a faster, more driving beat, more dissonant sounds, a louder and less mellow voice. Something that signifies fury more than depression. Make it sound like a raging thunderstorm.
Just my opinion, of course. Maybe this guy is really good at controlling his anger...
So that's my 2-cents' worth.
Vicki
@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) Thanks for listening, Vicki. I hear where you're coming from but as later listeners have picked up, you didn't really get the feeling I was trying to get over. It is of cold, suppressed, steely fury which is much scarier than ranting and raving in my book. Everyone hears everything differently I guess.
Hello,Alan, @monty,
A wonderful crystal clear production to be very proud of. I am so impressed with the music for this very cool song.
Paul
@Wicked Deeds (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19231) - Hi Paul. Pleased you liked the production and musical setting. These things can be hit and miss.
Good tune @montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653) with some really fine lyric writing.
This is the first song of yours that I have heard and my first thought was that I wanted to hear your vocals with a little more space around them.
Love that guitar outro as well.
@Unclenny (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=22611) Thanks for the kind words. If you like this, check out my Soundcloud page - there are around 40 more on there!
Hi Alan,
I think the others have all touched upon this; I wouldn't expect you to sing like Johnny Rotten, nor he like you.
For me, restrained anger is like an unexploded bomb, and therefore all the more dangerous as you don't know what devastation it may cause.
And that's the sense I get from your delivery.
I certainly got an edgier feel without it being explicit.
Outro solo is very classy - Chris Rea/Dire straits.
Works for me.
Digger
@digger72 (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=9823) Hi and once again thanks for your perceptive and insightful review. You got exactly what I was trying to get across with this song - unexploded bomb :-)
Hi Alan, from the haunting intro you can tell this is going to be a little more edgy for you. I think you are a master of understatement and therefore I think there is the right level of vitriol in your voice, it's just not your style to be over dramatic, so the vocal delivery is fine by me - e.g. 'You burned it down', 'every bad seed..' there's enough drama there and extra emphasis.
Great narrative in the lyrics, describing a sinner without being too specific of her sins. The guitar outro is very lovely inviting you to ponder over the story you've just heard. Very well constructed, the song easily flows and despite all those lyrics to get through seems to over in a flash. Very good 👍
@MichaelA (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21274) Great comments and again you got exactly what I was saying. Many thanks indeed.
Reminded me a little in the beginning of moments in Raising Sand..
As the writer of many dark lyrics, delivered in a kinda dead-pan way, I am not disturbed by the contradiction between words and delivery... I can see why it's being brought up but I quite like that.. The story is clear... It gives a kind of melancholy to the piece rather than just anger.. and then you do bring a certain amount of anger into lines such as.. "You burned it down...." and the "bad seed" refs...
And I gotta say I love the "smoke and bone" line.. and beautiful guitar work..
It's a hit for me :)
K
@MonnoDB (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19820) Thanks for the great review. The title is actually from a book which I saw in a bookshop and it just stuck in my mind as a great song title.
This works for me Alan. It does seem a little bit more edgy to some of your other stuff. I kinda liked the way that you kept the vocals restrained, almost as if you're just holding it all together before you totally lose it :) Liked the slightly dirty drum sound and great instrumentation as ever. Another quality offering from you @montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653)
@pompeyjazz (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20269) - You got it as well! Thanks for the kind words about the production - I really don't know what I'm doing - I just try a million things until something sounds OK!
Hi Alan
Sounds really lovely...a very cool slice of Americana. Instrumentation is perfect.
I think the vocal throws up an interesting dilemma. I listen to a lot of audiobooks...and the narrator can kill a book stone dead...or make you more than happy to listen to any old twaddle. I reckon the thing that kills things for me is over-dramatisation of a lyric...I started reading a potted history of WW2 by a well-known modern historian...and the narrator was doing this ridiculously patronising voice where he found it necessary to deliver every sentence about the Germans as though he was scraping something off the sole of his brogues...and injected a kind of "Winston Churchill meets Noel Coward" sentiment into everything the Allies did. I couldn't stand more than half an hour and got a refund.
You have such a smooth voice...and I think you know how best to use it...it might not have worked if you'd tried to inject oodles of vitriol into the song. The lyric makes the sentiment pretty clear.
The other related thing that gave me pause for thought was that it often seems that in my own life, i've found that many people have a tendency not to take seriously how much i mean something if i'm not making a drama out of it.
So...whilst I did initially think that the vocal delivery was slightly at odds with the lyric...I think you did right in not straying from your winning formula.
It's such a great title too...a super song.
@PaulAds (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20253) Man, you should take up professional reviewing. Your comments are always so thoughtful, detailed and beautifully expressed. This review makes all the hard work and inspiration totally worthwhile. (But only if you like the song) :-)
It's a good song but as Vicki said, I didn't get the vibe you were looking for from it. I often get that criticism from my lyricist Neil, he envisages a song as an angry rocker and i do it as a ballad. So I suppose it is in the eye of the beholder at the end of the day.
The lyrics are good and tell the story, but I feel it needs to be either more angry musically and therefore vocally or more minor and melancholy.
Take nothing away from the performance though, Some lovely work!
@PeteS (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=22588) Thanks for taking the time to listen. Shame you didn't get the vibe I was trying to generate but thanks for the positive words.
Your storytelling is always up there with the best but gotta agree with @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) on this one... :)
@shadowfax (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20024) Hi, It's a shame you didn't latch onto what I was trying to get over but hey, you can't win them all.
@montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653)
Hi Alan, up to your normal singing and lyrical standards! Love the slide stuff and the organ tone. Great solo on the outro, very Dire Straits 8)I didn't mind the drums, I think the 'splashiness 'of the cymbals put me off a little.
Nice one!
Cheers
Jamie
@Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125) Thanks for the review and the positive comments. It's appreciated.
'you're the daughter of smoke and bone' - what a great line, sounds like one of those old Shakespearean insults. You certainly get the idea. The 'every soul you've owned' was a little more ambiguous to me - is she the devil? Or did she just steal (other) mens' souls?
Guitars and slide are suitably dramatic and atmospheric. The one thing I didn't really get on with was the drums - I agree they have an 'edginess' but I wasn't sure the cymbal sounds really suited the rest of the song.
Anyhow, a strong song - great storytelling from you as usual, and very evocative of many possible backstories making us wonder what exactly she did.
@adamfarr (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20124) Thanks for the detailed comments. The owning the soul thing is really referring to all the people that fell in love with her are were her family. The song does refer to the bad things she's done - abandoned her child, lying, deceiving and putting her pride above her family
Alan,
Nice one with that mid tempo Americana feel to it.
Good wordscape as ever, I like the way you describe the emotion without being explicit as to what went on.
Lovely guitar outro
Going to have another spin.
:-)
Neil
@Neil C (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18856) Thanks for listening, pleased that you liked the musical setting.
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Hi Alan, you always have awesome rich productions on your songs and musically this one does not disappoint. I also like all of the lyrics except..."salt tears", just seems like a tiny over write there. I actually think that just "tears" would sing better there aswell. (Just my opinion mate.😁👍🏻)
Melodically I found the verses catchier than the chorus....just an observation, I listened 3 times.👍🏻
As for the vocal delivery...( now u know I like your singing) I just feel that you sang well but on this song your acting could have been a bit better...I hope your not offended by that mate. Just being honest. The line that you absolutely nailed for me was " you burned it down!" I could feel your emotion there....but on the "God help you if we ever meet again...wipe away your stain" lines I felt nothing....in fact u might have been telling her you love her the melody and your singing is so sweet there.
Now I'm no expert and my vocal performance default seems to always be set to "sad" I have trouble making happy songs sound happy!!🤪 But to me it is really so important to sell that story with your voice aswell as the instruments/lyrics.
I hope this helps mate. Goodluck with the album.😁🎶👊🏻🎶
@LostBoy (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20481) Hi, shame you didn't gel with the singing as others did but that's just the way the audio cookie crumbles. I have a style and forcing it to do something which isn't authentic never works. I appreciate your comments and the trouble you took to listen.
Hola Alan, I really enjoyed your song, it has a catching rhythm and your voice, as @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) says, is beautiful.
The lyrics describe the scene perfectly, the emotions and thoughts of that story. Very cool ballad.
@moraamarolaloba (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21233) Thank you so much for the kind words.
@montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653) - woof woof Mr Dog, it was the title that drew me in, really dig it, like the placement of the instruments, I'm a sucker for the pedal steel too.
Maybe there's a bit of potential for BV's in the verses.
Nice picking along the outro, what gtr was that?
Sublime production Alan.
@cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) Thanks for the positive comments. You're right, BVs on the verses would have been a good idea - I am trying to do more of that on my latest stuff.
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It's no trouble at all to listen to your songs mate.😁👍🏻
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I haven't heard any of your songs before. I really like this, the vocals and lyrics are awesome.
The one thing I do agree with others on is that it needs some more dynamic here and there to get the vibe to feel darker which I think you were going for, I don't think it's the vocal delivery in general it just needs to change a bit for some of the sections to really hit the emotion. I really like this for sure! :D
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Hi Alan
Well if that's edgy it's a smooooth edge :D
Seriously though you sound great in this and I love the organ and guitars.
Like the verse melodies too - very unique IMO.
Good work :D
Paul
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I’m a bit late to the party on this one. I can see from the comments thread that the Views on the vocal delivery is very much Subjective. For me, the restrained delivery works. Doesn’t take away from the Dark story. The first 20 seconds as an intro is so delicious to hear. Such subtle changes in melody and chords. Wonderful. Vibe continues throughout the track and as others have said the outro is also great. Quality songwriting as usual from you.
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Hey Montydog, I always love the evocative imagery you choose... it always symbolises the mood really poetically, without your having to spell out the story too explicitly. "Smoke and Bone" is a great title. I've noticed you've also got a tendency to reference American place names in your lyrics? Do you live there? Not that you have to to write about them, just wondered what drew you to them. Well I guess it's a more romantic opener than "Milton Keynes Wednesday Morning..." :-). Really dug the track overall, I also wasn't getting "edgy" from it but I didn't feel I needed to, your songs are always like a warm bath to me and I can just sink into them, comfortably, enjoying the smooth ride and all those images. Immaculate production. Looking forward to the album.