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Songwriter Forum => Recording => Topic started by: CaliaMoko on April 11, 2020, 06:25:15 PM
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I'm trying to record a piano part, but I don't play well enough to keep going and do it all in one take. When I try to put pieces together, it makes clicky noises at the joined spots.
I'm using Reaper and running the sound directly into the PreSonus Audiobox from the headphones out jack on the keyboard.
I there a trick to this? Is it just a skill I don't have [yet]?
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@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) - hi Vicki, hope you are well, sorry I missed your apartment open evening😎
Well, im Mr All thumbs Nd fingers when it comes to keys...my tip is to practice it as best you can before you record, then record it in MIDI then correct the mistakes in the midi editor...
Rgds
Rich
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Oh, @cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) , I didn't even know you could do that--record in midi! I knew I could code it in composition software, export as midi and then import it, but that sounds, like, really dead. I'll have to try the recording in midi idea. Thanks!
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Hey @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) - second what @cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) says if your keyboard supports it. What you end up should have what you play including the dynamics, which you can then tweak..... I have just started recording piano using mics but I didn’t comp so can’t help you there. Good luck!!
K
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Plus - You can overdub the midi file in Reaper @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
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+1 to other comments about recording the MIDI
Don't forget though - MIDI is only "data" and doesn't produce any sound - you will need a device or "virtual instrument" to get sound from the MIDI data
However....
@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
To answer your question...
When I try to put pieces together, it makes clicky noises at the joined spots.
When you join separate audio clips together it is good practice to ALWAYS put a small "fade in" and "fade out" on each audio clip (most DAWs make this very easy - and some even automated the process). This prevents the "clicking" you describe
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It takes a bit if getting used to Vicki, but once you’ve got it, it’s very handy, as one can move mistakes out of the way or add interesting notes, just don’t expect it to be quick.
Ask away if you have any questions...
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+1 with @Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) .... also get used to trimming your audio recordings, theres a lot one can do to make them sound much better.
Also get used to punch in markers, this is when you play along and the daw switches on the recording for you “hands free” at a point you select, all you have to do is play... if you have a punch out marker it’ll turn the recording off as well, useful when you have a great take but has a couple of slip ups...
Hope this helps
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@pompeyjazz (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20269) : I kind of know the word "overdub", but I don't know what it means to "overdub the midi file". Although, if I try it, maybe it will be obvious....
@Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) : Yes, Reaper does automatically do the fade in fade out thing and I tried changing the default settings, dragging the curves back and forth, but I am apparently so bad at the whole process--recording and fixing--that there are still extra noises in there. Perhaps I'm not patient enough. I will keep working at it. I haven't tried the midi thing yet but hope to before the day is over. If my keyboard will do it. I knew about adding sounds, as I've used midi files several times. But the way I've done it so far sounds too mechanical (programmed instead of played).
@cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) : I'm going to give it a shot shortly, if my keyboard knows how. Punch in markers! Huh! I always make a new track to record fixes and then cut and paste the fixed bit in the original track. I'll have to check on that punching process. Sounds like less work.
Thanks for all the responses! I've said it many times, and probably will many more--this is a wonderful place/resource!
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@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) I'll send you a video on how to do it in Reaper tomorrow!
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@pompeyjazz (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20269) : Awesome! I'll quit trying to figure it out on my own then. Thanks a bunch!
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Oh, lots of good stuff in that video. He starts kind of in the middle, but I think I might be able to figure out how to get where he is at the beginning of his instructions. First, I must rearrange the music room, so I don't have to run back and forth so far between the keyboard and the computer.
There that's [mostly] done. You know, I figured out something. I use "getting ready" for an excuse not to actually get to the music stuff. Or "I have to wash dishes" or "I have to wash clothes", etc, etc, etc....
I am going to try this piano thing RIGHT NOW!
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Well, it didn't happen right then, but I've been working at it. But he starts the video after he has a midi keyboard installed somehow and ready to go.
So far I've been striking out on that part. I got my VST installed. That was a challenge. Reaper only wanted to look in a path that did not exist. I finally made the path myself and now that part works, at least.
The next part is a challenge which I may finally have solved. I couldn't figure out to get the piano to record as anything other than sound. I thought maybe some magical process would work but, no, I actually need a midi cable. So I'm done until I can get one. I'm pretty sure I have two at home, so on our next trip home I'll pick them up. They're old. Years old. Has anything changed with midi in the last 20 years? Should I just buy new ones? Or just one? Why would I need more than one?
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MIDI cables haven't changed for years so I suspect you have the circular ones with pins
Just make sure you have the appropriate sockets on your keyboard and audio interface
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Thanks @Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) ! I checked both the keyboard and interface and they have the ports. I was hoping for a USB connection, but the keyboard doesn't have one, which is why I have to wait until I get a midi cable. And, actually, I just went and looked--the interface doesn't have a USB port either, except for the one to connect to the computer. So I'm doubly stuck with midi. That's okay. I'll finally get to use those midi cables I bought so many years ago. If I can find them. ::) :P
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I've recorded piano parts with a jack (guitar cable) as that was the only connection available. It's not midi so it's just sound but has no background noise and has worked fine for me when needed.
In the meantime, I am sure the clickiness can definitely be eliminated if audio is the only way you have for now...
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Thanks, Adam. That's the connection I have now. I do like that I can record directly with no background noise. I suppose joining the pieces smoothly is a skill I just need to learn. I'll keep practicing.
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Still working on this. I have my midi cables now. In fact, I have two kinds. One is just one cable with a midi plug at each end. The other has two midi plugs at one end and USB plug at the other end.
I have had no luck with either one. I am probably not configuring something correctly, but I don't know what. The single midi cable has no indications marking either end as "in" or "out", so I assume they are interchangeable. The other one clearly states "plug this one into midi out" and "plug this one into midi in", so I don't think I can get them wrong. The USB end I plugged directly into the computer. Regardless of how I turn things on and off, plugin, unplug, plugin again, etc, I can't get the keyboard to show up in the list of midi inputs or outputs in Reaper's options.
So I plugged the single cable in--using midi out on the keyboard and midi in on the interface. No results. Just to cover all my bases, I reversed the plugins--midi in on the keyboard and midi out on the interface, but nothing from that, either.
There are settings for midi in Reaper's preferences but I didn't change any of them. I don't know what they mean and usually, default settings work for everything.
Any suggestions for what I missed? I read the manual for the keyboard, but it mostly just describes what midi is. There's a bit of direction on plugging in the cables, which I followed.
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@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) - what make and model of keyboard is it, and what audio interface is it?
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The keyboard is a Roland EM-303. The interface is a PreSonus AudioBox44VSL.
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Hi Vicki,
Have you tried going from the keyboard directly in to your computer via MIDI to USB. The keyboard I use currently doesn't go in to the interface, it goes directly in to the computer. Give that a try and load up your DAW and see if you're getting any signal. (But make sure your keyboard is on before you load up your DAW, otherwise it doesn't connect, at least for me)
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@jacksimmons (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18881) - Yes, I did try that. And I went back this morning and made sure I did it all in the right order and tried it again. No luck.
And @cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) - I forgot to tag you when I reported "The keyboard is a Roland EM-303. The interface is a PreSonus AudioBox44VSL." So, just in case you didn't see it....
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I have searched extensively online and can't anything helpful for the Roland EM-303 at all. It's too old, I suppose. The only contact information for the company is a telephone number (they have a form to fill out on their website, but it requires entering the model number which no longer exists, so it is rejected). I've found a Roland group on Yahoo!Groups and have applied to join. Maybe I'll have some luck there.
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According to the manual (http://www.midimanuals.com/manuals/roland/em-303/owners_manual/em-303_305_om.pdf) the receiving device (Reaper in your case) must be set to "listen" on midi channel 4. As far as I understand that is the channel used by your keyboard by default (which is weird) and I would guess Reaper has channel 1 and default (which makes more sense)
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Thanks! @Jambrains (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19875) ! I read that page in the manual several times, but I sure missed that part. Now I just need to learn how to set Reaper to "listen" on channel 4, which should certainly be searchable. I found a Reaper forum and am asking questions there.
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@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
Unfortunately I am not familiar enough with Reaper to guide you through this in writing
My suggestion would be to stick with the single MIDI lead from MIDI OUT of keyboard to MIDI IN on the audio interface - this way you will avoid having to install any additional drivers or routing to take one potential difficulty out of the chain
When you have done this set a track up in Reaper and see if you can set up the MIDI channel as “OMNI”. This will mean it is listening on all MIDI channels
This does have the potential to cause issues later down the line - but it should be the quickest way to get you up and running
With this setup you should not be expecting to hear anything as MIDI is only data - so you need to set up a soft synth - but my suggestion would be to not worry about this until we confirm the MIDI data is getting in to the DAW and being recorded
When you have this set up and hit a key do you see any virtual lights flashing in the DAW in time with you hitting a key - there is usually an indicator to show the computer is receiving MIDI data - eg a small keyboard symbol with a red lights, possibly in the task bar on the bottom right near your clock
You could try arming and recording on to the MIDI track by hitting some keys to see if it records any data (probably shown as blocks in a “piano roll” type view)
I would suggest focusing on getting to this stage before introducing soft synths etc. - so the first goal is NOT to hear anything but to see data is getting in to the DAW
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@Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) : I've actually tried most of that already, although I did go back through it to make sure I didn't miss anything. It doesn't seem to matter what I do ON the track itself UNTIL I've chosen a MIDI device, which--in Reaper--is done via the menu item: Options | Preferences | MIDI Device. Any MIDI devices connected to the computer are supposed to show up in that window. There is even a button to push to refresh the list. But it never shows up in the list, so I can't select it. I did try going directly to the track (multiple times actually) where I can choose the MIDI channels, but nothing is there and when I try playing keys, there is no reaction in Reaper.
I've had one response in the Reaper forum so far, but it said basically the same thing, so I answered that and am waiting for something more helpful. I'm not super hopeful, as I tried a different DAW (some free one, I can't remember right now) and it didn't work in that one, either. So, I'm beginning to think my 20+-year-old keyboard isn't compatible with DAWs? cables? something...anymore. Although, that doesn't seem logical. It's probably just me.
Anyway, thanks for trying; I do really appreciate it!
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@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) Vicki, just a thought. Have you installed the driver software for your midi keyboard? It should be available online.
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I've actually tried most of that already, although I did go back through it to make sure I didn't miss anything. It doesn't seem to matter what I do ON the track itself UNTIL I've chosen a MIDI device, which--in Reaper--is done via the menu item: Options | Preferences | MIDI Device. Any MIDI devices connected to the computer are supposed to show up in that window. There is even a button to push to refresh the list. But it never shows up in the list, so I can't select it.
You should not need device drivers If you are connecting the keyboard via MIDI cable to your AUDIO INTERFACE - the device you are looking for in REAPER is your AUDIO INTERFACE and not the keyboard itself
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Okay, guys...it WAS the driver (sorry @Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) !) I wouldn't have believed it, because plugging directly into the computer (bypassing the interface completely) had NOT helped. ???
I knew I was looking for the audio interface in Reaper, but it was not there. Nothing was there. There were simply no devices on the list at all. Now that I've installed the driver, there are two devices on the list. One is...I don't know what, but must have something to do with the interface. The other one is obviously the interface, so I selected it. And when I play the keyboard now....TA-DA!...it is recorded on a MIDI track. I am so excited. I had reached the point of assuming there was something basic wrong with my keyboard or something.
I decided to try channel 4 before resorting to all channels, and...it worked. I am nearly giddy. Thank you a million times to everybody who chimed in trying to help me with this. Our forum is so awesome!
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That's brilliant @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) Vicki - I was just about to do some more research for you and I saw your post :) :) :)
Happy midi :)
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@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
That is amazing news ;D
I was referring to not needing the keyboard driver - I thought you had already installed the audio interface!?!?!?
If you were not using the correct drivers you may also get improved audio performance now as well
MIDI can be so tricky to set up so I am glad you have got over this hurdle
The next problem will be the MIDI on one track triggering a virtual instrument on a different track ::) ;)
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@Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) @CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928) I've never had any issues with Reaper doing that so hopefully things should run a bit smoother. Just a tip Vicki, Choose "Insert Virtual Instrument On New Track" option, choose your instrument and then Reaper will create a new track which is record armed, ready for you to play :)
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...I thought you had already installed the audio interface!?!?!? (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
#smfpackscodeBoydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) I thought so too. It failed to install properly when I plugged it in and apparently the computer did not see fit to call my attention to this detail. As I was getting sound on the tracks when I recorded, I wasn't aware of the failure. I've only had this computer a month, maybe, so not much time to discover problems yet.
The next problem will be the MIDI on one track triggering a virtual instrument on a different track ::) ;)
??? I don't think I want to know what you mean....not today, anyway.
...I've never had any issues with Reaper doing that so hopefully things should run a bit smoother. Just a tip Vicki, Choose "Insert Virtual Instrument On New Track" option, choose your instrument and then Reaper will create a new track which is record armed, ready for you to play :) (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510)
#smfpackscodepompeyjazz (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20269) Ah, a shortcut. I did one track already, backwards. So when I got done, there was no sound, which reminded me to add an instrument to the track. Now I've been fixing mistakes. I have learned how to adjust the volume which, I also learned (I may have known this once before, a long time ago) is "velocity".
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Ack! What happened to the @codes???