The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: Jamie on January 17, 2020, 02:19:25 PM
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Hi all, this is my new creation. Been thinking for a while of doing a prog rock type concept piece. So here are parts one and two of what will hopefully be a longer piece. Not the usual verse chorus or ABACAB type structure, but hopefully interesting enough to hold attention.Some nods to prog rock instruments and ideas. A bit of a 'cut price' Ancient Mariner vibe ;).Any way all constructive criticism welcome.
Cheers
Jamie
https://soundcloud.com/jamie1802/the-journey
The Journey
Parts 1 and 2
Dawn
Voyage
Sail away, eternity, till the end of time
No return,to find a way, will there be a sign
Forever gone, hope is lost, where else can we go
Find our way, through the night,a fearsome west wind blows
No return, no way back, life consigned to fate
Cant look back, time gone by, God guards every gate
Destiny,a piper plays, listen to his song
Carry on, brittle should, it may not be to long
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Very ambitious piece of writing, I like how it drifts through the various movements so coherently even though there is a deliberate lack of repetitive structure.
Must have been a challenge to remember how it all fitted together and evolved. Pulling that off is pretty impressive.
Didn't seem too long though, and it definitely pulls you in all way through., I esp like the melodic final flourish. Kudos for doing something completely different for you and doing it so well.
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@MichaelA (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21274)
Hi, thanks for listening. Glad you felt it was ambitious, because I see it that way as it’s not necessarily the type of piece that gets aired here, though there are some notable exceptions. Glad it held your attention, but being a progger, I’m used to 5/10/15 and even 20 min pieces so not an issue for me, but as most songs are 3-4 mins max it an exception to the rule. Any way, glad you enjoyed it! Always worth trying something different.
Cheers
Jamie
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I always have high expectations when I fire up one of your songs.
This one is top-notch. That electric piano thing is great in particular. I couldn't do anything like this in a month of sundays...and as you have done it so well...there wouldn't be any point in me trying!
Lovely vocals and quite amazing that it kept the quality and interest levels right up there all the way through and i still felt like i wanted it to play on.
Super stuff!
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I’ll be absolutely honest, I saw prog rock and then 7+ minutes and I bypassed this a few times.
I’m glad I gave it a chance though. There were sections that I enjoyed, particularly the elec piano part around the middle and I admire the ambition and undoubtable skill that went in to piecing this all together seamlessly, and I’m not just saying that.
To quote a well known cliche though, it’s not you, it’s me. There’s just very very few prog rock works that seem to light my fire.
I don’t think I’m sophisticated enough, maybe if I had the right drugs??
Yodasdad
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@Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125) - love this, a fine journey indeed, the ancient mariner invoked some strong images for me, this i feel is your finest work Jamie, beautiful and well organised, excellent production and each section is a different day on the ocean, different weather, tides, birds...a sight of land.
Too top song
Reminds me of Bill Nelson
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....one thing i noticed was if you want To make it even more prog if you could drop some strange time signatures in there like 7/4 or 5/4 , makes more work on the drum programming though
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I thought this was going to be background music but it ended up drawing me in much more than that. The longer structure gives the opportunity for more music and not rushing to any chorus.
It does contain one of my least favorite sounds (the vibrophone-like thingy around 2'45") which is used a lot in jazzier prog rock, but in general I really liked it - plenty of variety and it didn't seem long at all.
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Well. hi jamie, For me the first part before the first verse came in, I was not enjoying that. If that was to be an intro it was too long. however I did enjoyed listening to your verses and chorus and the rest of the the song to the last note. I think if this song had started with a shorter intro it will be more well received by a lot more people (just what I think)
That being said above I like your vocal style. The production sounds very professional I can see that you have talent. beautiful song.
Irwin
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Hi Jamie,
Haven't seen Ancient Mariner mentioned in the forum before - are you a Maiden fan, or are you referring to Coleridge's original work?
It's definitely proggy to my ear.
Not 100% my taste, but great job putting it together.
The part starting at 4.27 really does make me think of the sea and sailing. You just drift.....
Really does take you on a journey.
Ambitious and it works.
Digger
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I like the introduction, the preparation of the trip ...
And when the voice appears @Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125) .. It's fantastic !! Very balanced volume ... Good job, reminds me of so many good things... which now seems to be impossible to recover ... or not?
Very good work, it has been a bath of what music gave us a long time ago, traveling ...
Mora
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Hi guys, thanks for listening. I was slightly in trepidation posting this song, as many see prog rock as pompous, self indulgent, pseudo intellectual and pretentious, but.... I did it anyway ;)
@PaulAds (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20253) Hi Paul, thanks a lot your comments are very supportive. Yes, we all have our niches, and I certainly couldn't do most of the stuff you post! Yes, I'm pleased with the e piano sound and solo too.Glad it didn't drag and kept you entertained.
@Yodasdad (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19208) ;D, just to say I wasn't chemically supported in the production or writing of this music! 8).Glad you took the time to listen and got something from it. Prog rock is probably my favourite genre and to quote my wife this song sounds like something I'd listen to, unlike most of the other stuff I post here!Yes, I was pleased with the E piano part too. Thanks for your kind comments!
Cheers
Jamie
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Hi all thanks for listening!
I understand a lot of people will be put off by the prog rock tag, but I thought I'd be honest :o.
@cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) Hi Rich, great comments, thanks. I saw your notes on soundcloud too, thanks! You also mentioned odd time signature, which is also spot on. I always think songs which change time signatures in the song are more entertaining. Can this be done in logic pro x? Glad I painted a picture for you that made sense for the subject!
@adamfarr (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20124) Hi Adam, Glad you got something from listening. I'm not sure what you are referring to in the instrumentation. There is no vibraphone in the song. The instruments were as follows, grand piano, e piano x 2, chorale mellotron thing, hammond organ, guitars, bass, drums and vocals. :o
Cheers
Guys
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Hi guys, thanks for listening!
@irwin (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19439), cheers, thanks for your kind comments, I always thought some would find the structure/style a bit challenging, but hey that ok too!Great comments ref the song and singing, its much appreciated!
@digger72 (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=9823) Hi,No not a maiden fan, poetry dear boy... 8).Love your comments ref ambition, as you will see from my other comments previously I know this wouldn't be for everyone. Glad you got something from it!
@moraamarolaloba (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21233) Hi Mora, delightful comments you are very kind, glad you enjoyed it!
Cheers
guys
Jamie
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@Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125) - I don’t know anything about logic, but I’m pretty sure that it can be done, imagine all those artists that do this...however there is an alternative if you will play all the instruments yourself...ie not relying on the midi heartbeat, just programme the drums how you want including all the wierd time sig changes and fills, record the bass track so at least the backline is ‘followable’ as it were , and just play along, bit like a stand in jazz session.
If you’re dependent on midi instruments to follow the time sig changes then you’ll have to find out how to put in these makers on the time line, it’s usually a breeze. The other thing to note is that odd time sigs can sound even more pronounced if you use 4/4 or whatever the ‘normal’ time sig is for the song. Woolway was a live drummer, Hazey Purple was BFD3 drum program, both have sections of time sig changes, the former I followed the time sigs, with the latter I pretty much kept to 4/4, ensuring the fills fell in the right place...you might need to play with the Length of the Patterns.
Maybe take a copy and play a while till you get the hang of it.
Hope this helps
Best of luck with it
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Jamie,
I can't freakin' stand prog rock and that length was a bit of a hard swallow moment. Nevertheless, due to your gold plated pedigree on here, I gave it a listen.
OK, yes, it's ambitious but it does feature your superb vocals and attention to detail in all things. Love the B3 as well. I think you have to have trained your brain to appreciate this kind of thing and my brain is unschooled in these ways. There is a lot to admire here but it doesn't touch me emotionally so I have to give it a thumbs down on a personal front.
M
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Hi @Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125) An ambitious piece indeed and you've made a great job of it. I love it when writers look beyond what they usually do and push the boundaries a bit/lot. I love the variety and the way that you build it up and bring it down again. A fine array of instruments in there as well. I really like the hammond organ. Great stuff man :)
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Hi all, thanks for listening! I thought it was quite ambitious, I'm pleased that quite a few of you agreed, sometimes through clenched teeth ;D ;D ;D ;D.
@cowparsleyman (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21308) Hi Rich, yes you were right about time signatures, it is possible and is actually very simple in LP x. I found a tutorial on youtube. I'll give that a try in the not too distant future! I play all the instruments live myself, except the drums, so can only blame myself if I can't work it out! :P ::) 8)
@montydog (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18653) Hi Alan, I was laughing out loud when I was reading your post, I could feel your tension ;). As I said previously in this thread, I knew that this wasn't for everyone, and that some people will look at it and think, no way...... :P But, as I said I posted it anyway. Trying to educate the masses ;). Loved the pedigree comment you are too kind.Yes the Hammond sounds great, its stolen from Keith Emerson's tone so can't take all the credit :P.
@pompeyjazz (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20269) Hi John,thanks you are too kind! It's good to do something different now and again, as you and your mates know only too well! Yes, I tried to emulate some of the instruments used by prog rock greats, ELP,King Crimson,Yes and Genesis. 8) 8) 8) 8)
Cheers
Jamie
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@Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125) maybe that vibrophone was a mellotron... Nothing wrong with it. Just not my cup of tea!
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@Jamie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19125),
Melodic guitar introduction, lays the foundation for everything that is to follow. This is not a genre that I have much experience of listening to. I'm so attuned to writing songs that I pretty much avoid long instrumental sections but I acknowledge your well of ideas here. When the vocals kick in, the melody is there and that is no surprise as you base all of your ideas on a solid foundation of harmony. Ideas happen abundantly and there are many rewards to be found with the twisting and turning journey that you have embarked up on.
Paul
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Hi guys, thanks for listening!
@adamfarr (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20124) No problem 8).
Hi Paul,Loved your thoughtful review. Glad I made you think, and as I've said before I know that this won't be for everyone, so I'm pretty pleased that I haven't upset too many people, as far as I know.... ;) ;D :o
Cheers
guys
Jamie