The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Bar => Topic started by: rightly on October 09, 2018, 10:25:00 AM
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Who are the undisputed
The heavyweights of talent, known to all of us.
I'll start with three obvious candidates.
Lou Reed.
David Bowie
Leonard Cohen.
Anyone like to add a name?
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No musical list is complete without these two entries IMO:
Paul Simon
Tom Waits
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Billy Joel
Van Morrison
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J.S.Bach - Composer
Vince Clarke - Synths
Mark King - Bass
Jay Graydon, David Russell, Joe Pass - Guitar
Oscar Peterson - Piano
Lyrics - Elvis Costello
Vocals - Male Bowie, Female Ella Fitzgerald
But overall the best of the best, talent wise, by a country mile
Stevie Wonder
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How are Lennon/McCartney not here already?
Freddie Mercury
Bob Dylan
Jeff Lynne
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LEONARD COHEN is the greatest lyricist ever by an absolute country mile. Best vocalist, performer etc etc are all more difficult, it's personal choice.
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Billy Joel
Van Morrison
Not sure about Billy
Disputable
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J.S.Bach - Composer
Vince Clarke - Synths
Mark King - Bass
Jay Graydon, David Russell, Joe Pass - Guitar
Oscar Peterson - Piano
Lyrics - Elvis Costello
Vocals - Male Bowie, Female Ella Fitzgerald
But overall the best of the best, talent wise, by a country mile
Stevie Wonder
Wait we're talking the indisputables. Singer, songwriters.
Not just any artist's name you can remember. Lol.
Stevie wonder would be in there.
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Best songwriters behind Leonard Cohen? Here is a few for the mix:
Gordon Lightfoot
Dolly Parton
Hank Williams
Neil Diamond
Don McLean
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LEONARD COHEN is the greatest lyricist ever by an absolute country mile. Best vocalist, performer etc etc are all more difficult, it's personal choice.
Not looking for the one true God.
Just a short list of songwriters who are indisputably good at what they do. In this case songwriting.
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Please nobody put 'the artist formally known as'
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I can't claim these are undisputed, but my personal list would include:
Carole King
Elton John/Bernie Taupin
Woody Guthrie
James Taylor
Joni Mitchell
Buffy Ste Marie
Laura Nyro
Joan Baez
Arlo Guthrie
...in addition to most of those already listed.
Hmmm...looks like I'm biased toward folk-ish.
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One of the greats has to be Graham Gouldman
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"Please nobody put 'the artist formally known as'"
Just wait until @Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) reads this ;D ;D
What about...
Roddy Frame
Edwin Collins
Terry Hall
Joe Strummer
Vic Goddard
Peter Perret
Wreckless Eric
Ian Dury
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;D
Technically I suppose he is now "The artist that was formerly known as Prince that was then known as Prince again"
How on earth he shouldn't be on a list of most talented artists, singers and songwriters is beyond me!?!?!?!?
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steely dans walter becker & donald fagan .. unique and ever fascinating
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No need for a list, there is only one undisputed
Ray Davies
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John Lennon
Jimi Hendrix
Elvis Presley
Buddy Holly
Paul Carrack
Trevor Horn
Dave Stewart
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MARK E SMITH
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Oh yes - Producer Tony Visconti
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;D
Technically I suppose he is now "The artist that was formerly known as Prince that was then known as Prince again"
How on earth he shouldn't be on a list of most talented artists, singers and songwriters is beyond me!?!?!?!?
Prince fan, right here. Since '83.
(He's obviously undisputed)
He rarely had cool lyrics, he didn't seem to care that much.
There was the "the ballad of Dorothy Parker". N probably some others but not many.
@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
Joni Mitchell, definitely.
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@Rightly (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20219)
Great to find another Prince fan
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@Rightly (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=20219) @Boydie (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=18510) - Mrs Cowparsleyman saw Prince in the Frankfurt Opera House, and he asked everyone to wear Cream and black, said it was the best gig she ever saw. I was going to put him as the No.1 pick as he can write, play, and dance better than many, and he's a rebel and looker, but if I had to chose, Stevie has it all, and a wicked sense of humour.
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There was the "the ballad of Dorothy Parker". N probably some others but not many.
@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
Joni Mitchell, definitely.
I love the ballad of dorothy parker! Such a great song, but I never heard anyone mention it before. I play it at gigs sometimes. That whole album (sign o the times) was pure genius too. Everyone raves about purple rain, but sign o the times was Prince's finest achievement imo. And the few albums leading up to it were all amazing too.
Another vote for Joni - such a diverse talent. And she can paint! Current fave of hers is the hissing of summer lawns. I rate her lyrics above Leonard Cohen, too (sorry Furry61).
And like nooms said, donald fagin & walter becker definitely belong on the list. Amazing talent, not just as songwriters but as producers too.
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There was the "the ballad of Dorothy Parker". N probably some others but not many.
@CaliaMoko (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=19928)
Joni Mitchell, definitely.
I love the ballad of dorothy parker! Such a great song, but I never heard anyone mention it before. I play it at gigs sometimes. That whole album (sign o the times) was pure genius too. Everyone raves about purple rain, but sign o the times was Prince's finest achievement imo. And the few albums leading up to it were all amazing too.
Another vote for Joni - such a diverse talent. And she can paint! Current fave of hers is the hissing of summer lawns. I rate her lyrics above Leonard Cohen, too (sorry Furry61).
And like nooms said, donald fagin & walter becker definitely belong on the list. Amazing talent, not just as songwriters but as producers too.
@tone (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1)
Hi, could you post a link to a good recording of your version?
It just might bring about world peace, or at least it'll educate the kids.
Prince never really explored this like he did lets go crazy
The ballad and "if I was your girlfriend"
Are among his very best
can you imagine the latter in the charts in England in ' 87? Amongst the rigid homophobia of working class teens?
The love-sexy album on a one hour bus ride home, in a paper bag. Lol.
Picking a favourite prince album can only be personal. For me, I think it'd be parade. The impact it had on me back then!
Cohen and Mitchell ? I can't say who's better. They're too different to compete with each other.
Well Joni was the better guitar player. Phenomenal.
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@tone (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1)
Hi, could you post a link to a good recording of your version?
It just might bring about world peace, or at least it'll educate the kids.
Prince never really explored this like he did lets go crazy
The ballad and "if I was your girlfriend"
Are among his very best
can you imagine the latter in the charts in England in ' 87? Amongst the rigid homophobia amongst of working class teens?
The love-sexy album on a one hour bus ride home, in a paper bag. Lol.
Picking a favourite prince album can only be personal. For me, I think it'd be parade. The impact it had on me back then!
Cohen and Mitchell ? I can't say who's better. They're too different to compete with each other.
Well Joni was the better guitar player. Phenomenal.
I've never recorded my version, but perhaps I could be persuaded... I know what you mean about picking a favourite Prince album. Lovesexy has some amazing moments - like the drums in Dance On - jaw dropping. And Parade has anotherloverholeinyohead which is definitely in my Prince top ten. Not to mention Kiss.
The thing with Cohen vs Mitchell - I agree it's a matter of perspective, but for me Cohen's slightly too deliberate in his writing. Dylan suffers from this a little bit too imo. But Joni is so natural. And it helps that she doesn't sing like a drainpipe with pneumonia ;)
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Great thread! Here are some of my picks (from people not mentioned already and in no particular order)
Noel Gallagher
Axl Rose
Jon Bon Jovi
Linda Perry
Kurt Cobain
John Power
Richard Ashcroft
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@tone (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1)
Hi, could you post a link to a good recording of your version?
It just might bring about world peace, or at least it'll educate the kids.
Prince never really explored this like he did lets go crazy
The ballad and "if I was your girlfriend"
Are among his very best
can you imagine the latter in the charts in England in ' 87? Amongst the rigid homophobia amongst of working class teens?
The love-sexy album on a one hour bus ride home, in a paper bag. Lol.
Picking a favourite prince album can only be personal. For me, I think it'd be parade. The impact it had on me back then!
Cohen and Mitchell ? I can't say who's better. They're too different to compete with each other.
Well Joni was the better guitar player. Phenomenal.
I've never recorded my version, but perhaps I could be persuaded... I know what you mean about picking a favourite Prince album. Lovesexy has some amazing moments - like the drums in Dance On - jaw dropping. And Parade has anotherloverholeinyohead which is definitely in my Prince top ten. Not to mention Kiss.
The thing with Cohen vs Mitchell - I agree it's a matter of perspective, but for me Cohen's slightly too deliberate in his writing. Dylan suffers from this a little bit too imo. But Joni is so natural. And it helps that she doesn't sing like a drainpipe with pneumonia ;)
Tried to unpick Joni's weird tuning when I was young from 'For The Roses' just amazing what se was doing, made it much more simple to play, but what a brain.
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The big guns always show up in these kind of lists. In my book, Roddy Frame is leading the way as a unique songwriter and guitarist. His lyrics are in my opinion, unsurpassed. He plays guitar as well as the very best. Mark Knofler admired him so much that he produced an album for him when Roddy was just a boy. Today, he is nothing short of amazing!
Paul
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Billy Joel
Van Morrison
Not sure about Billy
Disputable
They're ALL "disputable."
Note that no one has (yet) mentioned Bob Dylan. (Actually, one person did.) Or Elton John? (Again one person named him) Or Holland, Dozier and Holland -- with hundreds of Motown hits. Hank Williams?
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OK, left field entries are allowed
I missed Drums - Fred Astaire - a (white) tie with Billy Cobham
If you've never seen this....Enjoy!!! and yes he really is playing them.
Rich
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I would dispute Bowie (paulski grabs a shield to protect against turd launchers)
I would add:
The Hollies
Jim Croce
George Jones
Jimmy Webb
Randy Newman
George Gershwin
Cole Porter
J.S. Bach ;D
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Sort of feel like this has just become a thread of people we like. Think there are many many names on here that could be ‘disputed’. Seems to me an undisputed legend should have something special and magical about their music, and have role boundaries, not necessarily just good songwriters or virtuosos but a legend that encompasses everything they do. Think a lot of these names are just talented people but don’t think they are in the same league as people like Bowie, Prince, Paul Simon etc.
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Sort of feel like this has just become a thread of people we like. Think there are many many names on here that could be ‘disputed’. Seems to me an undisputed legend should have something special and magical about their music, and have role boundaries, not necessarily just good songwriters or virtuosos but a legend that encompasses everything they do. Think a lot of these names are just talented people but don’t think they are in the same league as people like Bowie, Prince, Paul Simon etc.
Surely EVERY name on the list can be disputed? We are dealing with subjective tastes in music after all. A lot of the names on the list don't register with me (unsurprisingly some may submit given I'm a modern pop indulging philistine....) and the music of some of the names I'm little more than totally indifferent to. Are they good songwriters/ They probably are just not necessarily in line with my tastes. I'd have Max Martin, Ed Sheeran, Bonnie McKee, Starrah, Julia Michaels etc on the list but I can feel the irascible outrage form those with more purist tastes at the mere suggestion. What is the measure for 'undisputability'? Sales? Well, if so surely the likes of Sheeran and Max Martin make the list. Chart success? Ditto. Or is it tastes/style? If it's that, then any an every name will be disputable....
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For modern Western popular music only, these are indisputable (to me) and should be for everyone:
• Lennon/McCartney (only as a pair, not solo)
• Bob Dylan
• Hank Williams Sr.
• George & Ira Gershwin
• Stevie Wonder
• Thelonious Monk
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For modern Western popular music only, these are indisputable (to me) and should be for everyone:
• Lennon/McCartney (only as a pair, not solo)
• Bob Dylan
• Hank Williams Sr.
• George & Ira Gershwin
• Stevie Wonder
• Thelonious Monk
I think you forgot Irving Berlin ;)
Also, I prefer a bit of Mingus to Monk. 'Disputable' seems to be a tricky part of this list requirement...
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"Who's my hero? The unnerving, unswerving Irving Berlin" - Paddy McAloon. I know that I'm biased but I guess both these guys should be included.
Paul
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Maybe it's easier to find the undisputed worst artist?