The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Bar => Topic started by: Johnnyuk on April 13, 2018, 07:56:53 PM
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I'm going to sit on the fence here Johnny. I can see why you would want a song to be unambiguous but I also love some of the more cryptic song lyrics that don't reveal their secrets Immediately. I love that I'm required to do a little work, use my imagination and attach my own meaning or simply enjoy words and phrases that the writer has used.
Wicked
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I'm with Paul on this one Johnny. I would consider my windows to be on the OCD end of the clean spectrum; it's just that the glass is frosted.
I'm not sure my songs will be your cup of tea - despite never having the urge to explain them to anyone. They're not designed to be 'explained'.
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I think you're mostly right, but sometime's a little backdrop can help put the lyrics in perspective (especially where those lyrics border on the surrealistic or just plain out there!).
But you shouldn't need to go into detail and explain every single line (again, surrealistic/out there lyrics spring to mind).
I listen to a lot of music where I don't understand the lyrics (sometimes because they're in another language and sometimes because I listen to a lot of European symphonic power metal where the lyrics are poetically-leaning and often English-as-a-second-language derived on top). It doesn't deride from the pleasure of listening to them (just from my attempts to sing along!). The point here is, I don't care that I don't fully understand the lyrics. You really don't need to.
If I'm posting in the lyrics section, and I'm posting something that's not very self-explanatory, I'd offer something up as to the feeling behind the lyrics (they may be clear to me but others might be like "what the hell has he been smoking?!").
Hope that makes sense. I'm getting pretty drunk right now!
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I've also got a very different point of view to you on this one Johnny.
I love lyrics that force you to think, are ambiguous, or reveal some of their meaning/beauty on their 3rd or 4th listen.
To me lyrics that are immediately obvious can fade quickly or be pretty boring.
Probably why I'm never gonna have commercially successful music!
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I agree with the majority here. For me, lyrics are vitality important but they should not be too obvious unless that's you're intention. Part of the wonderful experience of listening to songs is interpreting the lyrics and going on your own personal journey. Also there have been many top hit songs where the lyrics are absolutely nonsensical but they work with the vibe. Check out "Blinded by the light" by Manfredd Mans Earth band and more famously McArthus Park. Now you tell me what that's all about :o
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One final thought...
When songs are posted online for feedback many come with an introduction explaining what this songs message is.
This should never be the case. It is the songs lyrics job to tell you it's message. You shouldn't have to explain what these lyrics mean to anyone, the lyrics if written well will do that job for you.
Johnny :)
I'd have to disagree with you here, at least in some cases. If you're posting lyrics looking for feedback and the song isn't "obvious" in its connotations, an explanation can help. Even for more "obvious" lyrics people can misunderstand the feelings/intentions of the songwriter and then their help may be misdirected.
With regards to "intentions", an example: You may have written lyrics where you intended it to convey one thing but it's gone a different way you don't like or don't want. You ask for people's help then it's vital to provide them with as much information as possible to help them understand what help you're actually looking for.
So I wouldn't say it should "never be the case" - there are "never" any absolutes in the songwriting world. ;)
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"Never is like always, Blue, there are no such things." Linda Crystal, character from High Chaparral. When playing live, there's nothing wrong with introducing a song with a little back story--why you wrote it, what it's about, who it's for--whatever you want to say about it. And here on the forum, when you're looking for feedback, it might be critical to explain the song a bit. Or not. Depends.
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Hi Johnnyuk!
I don't think songs have that much of a meaning or a message in themselves. It's more about expressing something that gives the listener associations to emotions, memories, imagination and stuff.
A song that has some propaganda-like declaration, or maybe subliminal message, might still make you think of a person the songwriter never met.
But I agree with you too. Explaining a song is like explaining a joke.
Martin
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'The reality for the average listener is they REALLY want to get what your songs message is all about.'
I don't think this is true....for a lot of people. They don't give a damn. They like the music or the beat...or the guitar riff or whatever...and maybe a couple of hook lines or phrases that they pick up on.
I expect most people don't know or care what the lyrics are to Don't Fear The Reaper, for example...they like that guitar riff and maybe know a few words apart from the title line....come on baby...40,000 something or other....baby take my hand...
I know that's only one song but.....
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I kind of agree - listeners should never have to Google anything about your song; and if there’s something essential for understanding then it needs to be there (or at least sufficient clues). On the other hand if you want to leave some ambiguity (did the lost love walk out or die they die?!) that seems totally valid.
But also the Viscount is right - sometimes words are there just because they sound good and are fun to sing!
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Hi,
Every ones loves crystal clear windows. When you look through them everything is sharper, more vibrant in color and crystal clear.
Your lyrics should be exactly the same.
Sharp, vibrant in color and crystal clear!
You should NEVER have to explain what your song is all about before people review your song.
That job belongs to your songs lyrics!
If your lyrics are crystal clear then you have no reason to explain your song to ANYONE before we the listener click on it.
The listener should get it in one. If they don't then re write and re write it until they do.
Johnny :)
I fundamentally disagree with everything you have written in this post. I think you need to take a step back and really have a look at what you have just written.
I am the Walrus. What was that about? Furthermore,does it matter?
The Jean Genie. Ditto.
First We Take Manhattan.
Any Tom Waits song.
Any Grateful Dead song.
Most modern pop songs.
Here are the lyrics from a song currently in 'finished songs'. Are you telling us all this is rubbish because it's not literal?
___Nobody Wants To Work That Hard___
it'll take a while before it gets into my blood
I'll bide my time until it's written in stone
run with the devil like y'know that y'should
and I'll find a way out o' here on my own
describe one's colours to the willingly blind
reluctantly shines my one n' only star
too many lovers with whom to invest my time
when nobody ever wants to work that hard
nobody ever really wants to work
nobody ever really wants to work
nobody ever wants to work that hard
You want to shut down before making a start
nobody ever wants to work that hard
nobody ever wants to work that hard
after crying salty tears I blow my nose
I've been kicking up the leaves in Paisley Park
they arrested me with their dos and their don'ts
this time, "looking for relief long after dark"
nobody ever really wants to work
nobody ever really wants to work
nobody ever wants to work that hard
there's a carpet of leaves out in the yard
nobody ever wants to work that hard
nobody ever wants to work that hard
nobody ever wants to work that hard
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Hi,
Every ones loves crystal clear windows. When you look through them everything is sharper, more vibrant in color and crystal clear.
Your lyrics should be exactly the same.
Sharp, vibrant in color and crystal clear!
You should NEVER have to explain what your song is all about before people review your song.
That job belongs to your songs lyrics!
If your lyrics are crystal clear then you have no reason to explain your song to ANYONE before we the listener click on it.
The listener should get it in one. If they don't then re write and re write it until they do.
Johnny :)
From your original post Johnny.
Do you understand in crystal clear fashion what Rightly's song is about? If not should he,and I quote you,"The listener should get it in one. If they don't then re write and re write it until they do".
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Would the addition of music make the lyrical content any clearer?
You have me baffled man.
On one hand you say "The listener should get it in one. If they don't then re write and re write it until they do".
Then you say "It's just an opinion at the end of the day and for every person in the world who dislikes a song there will be ten more who love that song even if they havn't got a clue what it's about".
???
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The thing is Johnny, you started off adamantly stating that any song whose lyrics are not transparent has failed. I sense you're trying to backtrack from that now. I think also some folks are wading in strong as your original post had a touch of didacticism about it, which can come across as arrogant.
There's no single definition of a successful lyric - if there was, songwriting would be all craft and no art. Personally, my lyrics exist almost entirely in the opaque realm, and that's the way I like it. The songs rely on creating an emotional response in the listener. Whether listeners objectively understand or can analyse that response is irrelevant IMO.
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What about instrumentals or classical pieces then ? (Oar in and out very quickly) Personally I prefer lyrics that are intriguing and require me to think rather than something obvious. Just my opinion anyway
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Hi John,
Instrumentals and classical pieces are completely different tbh, not the same as a song with lyirics with the sole intention of selling a story to the listener. Additionally lyrics that are clear does not mean they cannot be creative or are simply boring because they are crystal clear. A song can also make you think with crystal clear lyrics too. I would add that it would be even more interesting that whilst your lyrics are clear you also include lyrics that make you think too.
Johnny :)
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Hi Skub, :)
When i say that the listener should get it in one regarding your songs lyrical message that isn't an opinion. That is a fact.
Johnny :)
And again,as I said in my very first post in this thread,I fundamentally disagree with that statement. I do agree,that you have a right to hold that as an opinion,but it is not fact,just your opinion.
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OK Johnny. To be honest I don't really understand what your point is as there are so many examples of obtuse lyrics throughout the history of music. Also I know your intentions regarding songwriting are very admirable but please remember that there are lots of people on this forum writing songs from lots of different angles, not just a commercial viewpoint.
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I gotta go to bed Johnny,I've work in a few hours etc..
Songs and movies analogy is comparing apples to oranges. Firstly,not all songs are stories and secondly,song lyrics don't need to be understood to enjoy a song.
Take care man.
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Obtuse lyrics are all over this planet and some are very well done and sell. I have no issue with that but those songs are from already famous artists.
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Hi Johnny, not sure about that, I think there are many examples where an artist's breakthrough song had heavily unclear lyrics. How about...
Beck's "Loser" (... with the plastic eyeballs, spray paint the vegetables...)
Hanson's "Mmm Bop" (... mmmbop, badubadop...)
Little Richard's "Tutti Frutti" (... tutti frutti, aw rutti, awop bop a lubop, a lop bam boom... )
They Might Be Giant's "Birdhouse in Your Soul" (... blue canary in the outlet by the light switch...)
Spice Girls' "Wannabe" (... I really really really wanna zig-a-zig-ah...)
Those artists got darn famous because of these songs, I don't think the unclear lyrics got in their way.
I do agree with you that not many have built a whole career out of gibberish lyrics only though, so as with so much in this glorious craft of songwriting, 'it depends'.
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Johnny. It's time to step down from your high horse and have a gentle reality check.
When i say that the listener should get it in one regarding your songs lyrical message that isn't an opinion. That is a fact.
I hate to burst your bubble, but that's not a fact. That's an (ill informed) opinion. If hold a stone in your hand and then let it go, it will drop to the floor. That is a fact. I feel like you're using words without understanding what they mean.
You right there have just stated that YOU have complete dissregard to your listeners.
I never said anything even resembling that. Slow down and read what I wrote again.
I pay very close attention to my lyrics, because it's of the upmost importance to me that they carry a particular feeling with them. I have absolute respect for my listeners, although I'm not writing the songs specifically for them. What I did say is how they choose to interpret my lyric is their business.
All the success of your songs is entirely based on what those listening think about your songs and you are giving two fingers up to those listeners. I would never do that.
First you have to define success. In my house, the success of a song is measured against how well it fits the idea I was going for. Of course, I prefer it when other people like the song, but it's not the only measure of success.
Also, how am I holding two fingers up to my listeners? You're very keen to put words into my mouth, and I don't appreciate that. You need to tidy up your attitude mate.
PS: here is my original post and nowhere in it does it say anyone has failed.
Ok, you implied it strongly then. Pretty much the same thing.
You can put smilies at the end of all your posts, you still come across as obnoxious.
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I suppose it depends what your ultimate aim is. If you want to write a modern pop song then unambiguous lyrics are quite key to the form. Likewise, if you're writing as story song where the ultimate aim it to convey a narrative you also want to be clear. That doesn't mean imagery and analogy and metaphor should be thrown to the wind, but they should take a back seat to the storytelling.
I have written songs where the lyrics are crystal clear, but I also enjoy adapting my poetry in to lyrics and writing lyrics that are full of imagery and ambiguity. Sometimes that adds to the mystery and suspense of a song. Sometimes I like to hear a song with beautiful imagery, even if I don't know what it means right away. It can be nice to analyse and pick apart lyrics just like you have to with good poetry.
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In my musical universe, there's room for clear glass, frosted glass and stained glass. As long as the words, melody and arrangement work in harmony, people will connect with the song. For some artists, the words are really just an extension of the music and carry very little meaning: Duran Duran and a number of early Oasis songs (even Noel admitted this). Cocteau Twins actually had great lyrics, but Elizabeth Fraser's delivery meant you could never really work them out. All of those bands, and many, many more like them, have enjoyed great commercial success, and as Tone says, there are many ways to measure success.
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Interesting discussion that I thought wouldn't end well when I read the first post!
I can see where @Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771) has rubbed people up the wrong way by writing a number "preachy" posts that are almost trying to teach people how to write songs in "his" way
A number of these posts have promoted some interesting discussions
However, using words like "should" and "NEVER" about a subjective art such as songwriting are unlikely to go down well unless you have an audience of people looking for guidance or you are teaching a class
When you are an equal in a forum with lots of other talented songwriters then you need to be really careful trying to give advice when it hasn't been asked for - this is where it can come across you are "talking down" to members (and I really do think you should reflect on these paragraphs)
Interestingly, I happen to personally completely agree with everything @Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771) has said about lyrics - this is my view about commercial writing AND writing any song you want someone to connect with
HOWEVER - and this is the point I think is being missed by @Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771) at the moment - I also like paintings to look like what is being painted
If someone is painting a portrait I am then able to judge "how good" the portrait is based on how much it looks like the person - a portrait that looks like a photo would undeniably be "very good"
BUT - some people prefer abstract painting or other styles that might be less obvious - e.g. An impressionist painting
I would not tell Picasso his paintings are "sticking 2 fingers up at the people that view his paintings" because it does not look like a realistic representation of the person
As with painting (and any other art) there is a balance between the "art" and the "craft"
Any book on lyric craft will support much of what was said in the OP - however to say this is then "right" and apply it to everyone is missing the point of the "art" of songwriting
There is room for all view points so whilst it is great that everyone has their personal opinion please ensure it is presented as that - and not as "should" and "never"
Peace, be wild, coo coo ker choo ;D
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You should NEVER have to explain what your song is all about before people review your song.
That job belongs to your songs lyrics!
If your lyrics are crystal clear then you have no reason to explain your song to ANYONE before we the listener click on it.
The listener should get it in one. If they don't then re write and re write it until they do.
Johnny :)
Hi,
I'm Johnny and I've just signed up for this forum tonight. :)
I've always valued feedback on my songs but i had a period in my life a while back where i stopped writing music all together. Health issues stopped me from doing what i really love to do the most. Anyway two years later i was back to good health and began writing again. This is one of a few new songs i wrote which i am now hoping to get some feedback on.
The inspiration behind this song is from a good friend of mine who is very popular on a forum i use. ( not on here) :) His quick witt and charm got all the girls fawning after him online so i wrote about that and about how honest he is when he posts online on any subject. He always speaks the truth and he also drops truth tea when he see's lies. He's a great friend of mine and the lyrics came from my own chats with him and from reading how he conducts himself/interacts with others online. :)
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Oh what a tangled web we weave.... :D
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Let the stars plummet to their dark address. That's a single line from a poem I love. Here is another: One black-haired tree slips like a drowned woman in to the hot sky. They can mean very little without context. It's up to us to interpret these lines, without the rest of the poem, anyway we see fit. I think the first quote makes little sense without the rest of the poem. But it is still beautiful, isn't it? A song with lyrics so gorgeous wouldn't anger me. I wouldn't want to turn it off and never listen again. Just like a poem I would want to revisit it again and again, to understand it, or just to hear the way the words roll off the tongue.
I wouldn't want a poem watered down so that, on first read, I know it already. Why do we want that from our lyrics? Is lyric writing a lesser art than poetry? I don't think so. I think there is as much a place for imagery, analogy and metaphor in lyrics as their is in poetry. If you want a story as clear as crystal, you should be reading a Wikipedia page.
Edgar Allen Poe, or maybe someone else, said his favourite phrase in the English language was 'cellar door', not because of what it means, but because of how it sounds. It's quite pretty. And sometimes that is enough.
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I've missed a lot of the "discussion" in this thread the last few days. Been busy writing my own stuff, listening to others, and trying to keep Mrs K. happy (that last one may be damn-near impossible - I haven't found the magic formula and we've been together 25 years, 6 months, 6 days [pretty much to the minute - how sad is that I can still work that out?!] and married 20 later this year).
I've quickly glanced over the last few posts... and one thing I just want to say about "interpreting" other people's works. I took English Literature at school and one thing that annoyed me greatly was "interpreting" what an author was supposedly conveying when they wrote their classics (we studied A Taste of Honey, The Importance of Being Earnest, and (possibly the worst book ever written - though my judgement may be clouded by the fact I was 15/16 at the time and it bored me out of my mind) Lord of the Flies.
But I do remember one... poet I think it was... who REFUSED to allow the exam boards from setting exam questions on his work because he was of the opinion "how the hell can someone say for sure what he was thinking when he didn't have a clue himself - it's conceited!" - or words to that effect.
Which is why it should be up to the individual author (or songwriter in this case) to decide for themselves if they need to provide any explanation for their lyrics.
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:) :) What are you actually saying @Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771)
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@Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771) , there are 2 lines in your last post that jump out to me:
on obvious problems within their song demo
you will continue to repeat the same bad habits and continue to do the same thing over and over again in the next song you write
People do not post songs for review to check whether they are "right" or conform to what someone thinks is the "right" way to write a song
You can gladly say that you personally feel a song should last a certain time and conform to certain "rules" but nobody on here has the authority to say a song has "problems" or writers have "bad habits"
This is a place to get a range of opinions and feedback - but it is up to the original poster to decide whether they take the feedback on board or completely ignore it
I will reiterate my painting example...
If someone paints a portrait that looks like the person they are painting (i.e. Follows the normal conventions) then most will think it is good - this is the same as someone writing a pop tune and sticking to a pop structure, including a clear & conversational lyric, having good production, lots of hooks etc. - i.e. It sounds like something you would hear on the radio
I think this would conform to your view of "good"
However, when someone gets creative and breaks the rules of painting to create an "interpretation" of a portrait - e.g. Big paint splodges, or impressionist, or surreal, or "modern art" then opinion is likely to be divided between - "oh my God, a 3 year old could paint a better picture" and "oh my God, that is genius and worth a million pounds"
Tracey Emin's "My Bed" springs to mind
My point is people post songs for FEEDBACK, which is totally different from having their songs "judged"
If you want songs "judged" then enter contests or pitch them - the community here is about honest feedback, which can only be given as OPINION - not as "shoulds", "nevers", "problems" or "bad habits"
I am really not trying to "get at" you here as you have made some wonderful contributions to my forum, but I think it is really important for you to understand the difference between giving feedback and a critique based on your opinion and telling people what is "right or wrong" with their song
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Oh dear mush . Send us your kiĺler song and anymore fab tips :) :) :) :) Bon Soir
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If a songwriter wants to write lyrics that have no meaning or purpose then that is their artistic choice to do so.
If they also want to have a 59 second intro then that is also their artisitic choice to do so.
If they then decide that a 1:30 minute solo is right for their song then again they should go ahead and do that.
If their new song is to last 7 minutes and 59 seconds long then again that is their artistic decision.
And when they then put their song up for feedback and people respond with comments like maybe make the lyrics a little bit clearer or the intro could be a bit shorter or maybe think about making that solo a bit shorter too and maybe think about making the song length shorter cos it does drag on a bit tbh? They can simply bury their head in the sand and ignore all of that very good advice given to them.
Because at the end of the day that is also their choice too.
You are going round and round in circles. One minute you want everyone to conform to your special rules of songwriting, the next everyone can do whatever the hell they want. One moment you are laying out tips like the ten commandments and the next it is all subjective. You sound like you are coming from a very specific place with a very specific idea of what a song is.
I'm a pop guy. I like making retro pop songs so the above, to me, is all sound advice. But here's the thing: to someone who is writing a musical (which I have done), cutting out instrumental interludes isn't a good, clever thing to do, it is removing something integral to the genre of music you are trying to create. If someone is writing a prog song then telling them to remove the long guitar solos and cut down instrumentals isn't good advice. It's pretty shit advice.
What's wrong with a 8 minute song? There are some great 8 minute songs. There are some great songs with long intros and great songs with a long guitar solo. Heaven forbid, maybe even two long guitar solos. So what's the point in this thread?
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Hi,
Every ones loves crystal clear windows. When you look through them everything is sharper, more vibrant in color and crystal clear.
Your lyrics should be exactly the same.
Sharp, vibrant in color and crystal clear!
You should NEVER have to explain what your song is all about before people review your song.
That job belongs to your songs lyrics!
If your lyrics are crystal clear then you have no reason to explain your song to ANYONE before we the listener click on it.
The listener should get it in one. If they don't then re write and re write it until they do.
Johnny :)
I understand what your written words here are saying Johnny but "crystal clear windows" "everything is sharper" "more vibrant in color"
"If your lyrics are crystal clear then you have no reason to explain your song to ANYONE before we the listener click on it"
Every now and then I hear a song that I know from the start feels good in every way but then most of them lose their way in production or whatever but thankfully some don't, it's the some don't that I like.
On these open view threads we're all just having a written word conversation here, I like to think ;D
Nice one Johnny 8)
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Can we not just cut this string now? I can't see what it's adding to the forum,
other than serving as a distraction. My opinion.
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@Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771) nobody is telling you you're not entitled to your opinion. Also, please point out examples of name calling, as this is not in the spirit of the forum and something I like to keep an eye on.
The problem here is this. You started a thread trying to 'teach' us all how to write. Some people disagreed with you, you posted counter arguments. Unfortunately, some of your counter arguments contradicted with your original statements.
Your posts are full of inconsistencies, and yet you're still banging the "I'm right" nail over the head instead of recognising your hubris and adjusting your attitude accordingly.
Also, please be mindful of the words you use and their actual meaning. You may not have noticed I am a moderator on this forum, so I read what you say about my posts when you report them.
If you want to have a conversation about lyric writing then I am genuinely up for that. Threads about the art/ craft of writing are some of the ones I enjoy most. But if you want to be right and teach everyone else your rules, you should organise your own platform to do so.
For the record, Hotel California is one of the most successful songs ever, and it has two super long guitar solos back to back. Likewise, the long guitar solo in Bohemian Rhapsody is one of the iconic moments in one of the most famous pop songs ever. Personally, I don't like guitar solos, but that's just me. They're not 'wrong'.
For every rule you care to espouse, there will be many exceptions we can all think of, which will prove only one thing. Rule-breaking is just as valid in its own right as rule-adherence. Bottom line is this: if your song is killer, you might be able to break as many rules as you want and still have success. If your song is limp, you can follow your clean windows rule and your I-V-P-C-V-P-C-B-C-C structure and still have a boring record no-one's interested in hearing.
Of course people asking for criticism should be able to take it. But if you're getting the hump because people are choosing not to follow your advice (which is how your last thread sounds), then your expectations of this forum are way off the mark.
Based on your observations in this thread, if you critiqued one of my songs, you'd most likely say it needed to be less ambiguous lyrically and more repetitive musically. I'd thank you for your opinion and ignore your advice, because that's not what I'm going for.
Having strong opinions about how things should be doesn't also mean you can act as an authority. Like you said in your last post, you're quite new here. If you're looking to become a respected member of the community, that comes with time and the respect you extend to others, not from trying to take them/us to school.
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Hi Boydie,
Everything above that you have written is your opinion, one which you are clearly entitled to have.
I have no problem with you having your opinion or anyone for that matter.
But can i say the same thing about this thread which i created to post my opinion in on this topic.???
That is what people are missing.
I think this is the crux of what has happened here - and I do think it is worth "thrashing out" as I do not want my forum to lose the "healthy debates" we often have here
@Johnnyuk (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21771) You are entitled to your opinion and I truly welcome it (I have already said that I actually agree with it)
The problem is you presented your opinion as fact - this is clearly going to be open to challenge and I can understand that the way you initially presented it as a "teaching point" would get some people's backs up
To continue the "songs as babies" analogy - if you were to walk up to a group of people you barely know and start dishing out parenting advice on the "right way" to bring up their children I think you would get a similar back lash!!!
If, however, rather than presenting your points as "fact" you had said - "I think lyrics should always be crystal clear - what do you guys think?" there would have been a really healthy discussion (which I know you have done successfully in other threads so this might just be a misunderstanding/poor choice of wording)
Very few things in songwriting are "fact" or "right and wrong"
Except of course @tone (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=1) having the opinion that he doesn't like guitar solos - this is clearly wrong and songs should have LOTS of guitar solos and more cowbell ;D ;)
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I don't like marmite either
Now, THAT is a fact - marmite is disgusting!!!! Everyone knows that
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I don't like cricket, but I love Marmite!
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I don't like marmite either
Now, THAT is a fact - marmite is disgusting!!!! Everyone knows that
Disgustingly good!!
I dont agree that the meaning of lyrics needs to be crystal clear but I get the advise given. TBH I think with the right melody and music many listeners won't care too much for meaning, although I think it's nice if the lyrics are strong/well thought out.
It amazes me how diffierent words have different sonic value (if that's the right terminology) even if they're just one letter different. I have sometimes found that a lyric can sound 'off' and I change a word (and it could be the smallest of change) and it sounds much better. So it makes me wonder that if the word that sounds 'right' doesn't fit the meaning should we throw it away or do we need to revisit the lyrics as a whole to work around the new word?
Thanks
Darren
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I don't like marmite either
Now, THAT is a fact - marmite is disgusting!!!! Everyone knows that
That's outrageous. Marmite is gorgeous. FACT.
IMHO
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I'm coining a new acronym. IMFO Marmite is delicious. In My Factual Opinion :D
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Disgustingly good!!
I dont agree that the meaning of lyrics needs to be crystal clear but I get the advise given. TBH I think with the right melody and music many listeners won't care too much for meaning, although I think it's nice if the lyrics are strong/well thought out.
It amazes me how diffierent words have different sonic value (if that's the right terminology) even if they're just one letter different. I have sometimes found that a lyric can sound 'off' and I change a word (and it could be the smallest of change) and it sounds much better. So it makes me wonder that if the word that sounds 'right' doesn't fit the meaning should we throw it away or do we need to revisit the lyrics as a whole to work around the new word?
Thanks
Darren
Hi Darren!
I agree with you regarding the sound/phonetics of words and sentences. Sometimes when I write, lines of my lyrics are just a few syllables scattered across an imaginary sentence and I sit and fill in the gaps to make it make some kind of sense.
Martin
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I've already given my view on clear vs frosted, but that's not to say I don't take care over my lyrics. I quite like poetry in lyrics, and we all use metaphors, but that's different to being unclear I think. However, I don't like lyrics that are wrong just to nail a rhyme, e.g. yoda-speak, and don't get me onto double negatives!