The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Works in Progress => Topic started by: cowparsleyman on February 28, 2018, 09:01:53 AM
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This song doesn't sound finished to me, but I can't put my finger on what it is. Whether there is something missing or needs to be removed.
Just a bit of preamble, I wanted the solos to sound confused, like the mind of someone going through the melee' of an affair, or succumbing to a temptress, the confusion, the guilt etc.
What would you do? I'm open for any advice/suggestions.
I think the singing would be better done by an American vocalist, do you know any, that might be up for it?
https://soundcloud.com/cowparsleyman/she-shook-me-cold-v2
Thanks for listening
cpm
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Hi cpm,
I just took a couple of listens to your song and this is what i think.
When everything kicks in after the intro it is ALL in your face! EVERYTHING is competing against your vocal when nothing ever should. So the best way to get it all under control would be to pull all the faders down leaving only your vocal,drums and bass. Now play it and balance the drums and bass against your vocal making sure none of them get in your vocals way volume wise. All the other stuff is decoration so once you balance those 3 elements out you can then bring in the other stuff. Do not let the other instruments take over. They are there to support your vocal unless your in a solo section. If you do this you should start to hear your song gel together a lot more than it is right now.
Johnny :)
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Hi cpm,
I just took a couple of listens to your song and this is what i think.
When everything kicks in after the intro it is ALL in your face! EVERYTHING is competing against your vocal when nothing ever should. So the best way to get it all under control would be to pull all the faders down leaving only your vocal,drums and bass. Now play it and balance the drums and bass against your vocal making sure none of them get in your vocals way volume wise. All the other stuff is decoration so once you balance those 3 elements out you can then bring in the other stuff. Do not let the other instruments take over. They are there to support you vocal unless your in a solo section. If you do this you should start to hear your song gel together a lot more than it is right now.
Johnny :)
Hi Johnny
Thank very much for taking a listen, and commenting, I appreciate the time you've taken.
That was one of things, I couldn't get right, I certainly worked on getting the drums, bass and Vox balanced correctly, I'll try again, but I thought it was rather the'everything else' that needed taming, I think I'll pop those into a submix bus, and try that, it might work. I'm looking at the same BAMM as when the guitars come in on 'Smells like Teen Spirit'.
I have not worked with this kind of song before, so I am keen to know how to get it right, and I will get it right, with your help.
Thanks again
cpm
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Hi cpm.
Try what i said in my last post and then re post it up on here and i'll take another listen no problem.
It' ok to throw everything into a demo when you start a new song. But once you get all your ideas into lets say the chorus. Then you should start to cherry pick. Meaning only keep the licks/riffs/piano parts or fx or whatever. Only keep them in if they support your vocal. If they don't then get rid and try something else cos you will find something better 100%.
Johnny :)
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Hi cpm.
Try what i said in my last post and then re post it up on here and i'll take another listen no problem.
It' ok to throw everything into a demo when you start a new song. But once you get all your ideas into lets say the chorus. Then you should start to cherry pick. Meaning only keep the licks/riffs/piano parts or fx or whatever. Only keep them in if they support your vocal. If they don't then get rid and try something else cos you will find something better 100%.
Johnny :)
OK,
I also might re record the last solo, I recorded it wet, and the individual notes seem to get lost, tried to eq it back, but to no avail.
cpm
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Hello cpm
Good advice already about the mix. I would just add that I think the bass needs taming just a touch, especially on the popped notes. They jump out a bit too much IMO.
As far as your concerns about the arrangement, I'm also not convinced it's working as well as it could. The second guitar solo is where it falters for me. Either it needs to go or be reduced in length. I would also repeat the chorus once more before fading out as it felt quite abrupt.
Nice intro on this one.
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Hi Tone
Thanks very much for listening and your comments, yes, you might have swayed it with the 2nd solo...
I want to get the mix right, then make a decision.
cpm
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By the way if there are any rock drummers that fancy doing the drums properly, especially the triplets at the end...let me know,
Apologies for their sloppiness, I always wanted to be able to deliver fancy kick/tom/tom & kick/tom/snare triplets, but could never get them as slick as I wanted.
cpm
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By the way if there are any rock drummers that fancy doing the drums properly, especially the triplets at the end...let me know,
Apologies for their sloppiness, I always wanted to be able to deliver fancy kick/tom/tom & kick/tom/snare triplets, but could never get them as slick as I wanted.
cpm
Hi cpm
I'll have a go at some drums for you if you like? Let me know. If you say yes then i will need the tempo from you.
Johnny :)
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By the way if there are any rock drummers that fancy doing the drums properly, especially the triplets at the end...let me know,
Apologies for their sloppiness, I always wanted to be able to deliver fancy kick/tom/tom & kick/tom/snare triplets, but could never get them as slick as I wanted.
cpm
Hi cpm
I'll have a go at some drums for you if you like? Let me know. If you say yes then i will need the tempo from you.
Johnny :)
Cheers Johnny, that's really big of you, maybe I can help you out sometime, not sure how...
I'll check it out, I'm at work at the moment, how about if i post a no drums version on SC, would that help, with bpm etc.
cpm
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By the way if there are any rock drummers that fancy doing the drums properly, especially the triplets at the end...let me know,
Apologies for their sloppiness, I always wanted to be able to deliver fancy kick/tom/tom & kick/tom/snare triplets, but could never get them as slick as I wanted.
cpm
Hi cpm
I'll have a go at some drums for you if you like? Let me know. If you say yes then i will need the tempo from you.
Johnny :)
Cheers Johnny, that's really big of you, maybe I can help you out sometime, not sure how...
I'll check it out, I'm at work at the moment, how about if i post a no drums version on SC, would that help, with bpm etc.
cpm
Hi,
When you get home just find out the tempo and post what it is in here for me ok?
I will then make a drum track then send you the link for it so you can play along to it and see if it works for your song. And after that if you want it i can then email the drum loop to you no problem.
Johnny :)
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I quite like what you call 'lead mayhem' CPM. The song is quite high energy in its deliberately retro style - reminds me in the chorus of The Who a bit.
As a mixing tip, well I always look at the final Soundwave shape, which is easy on SC. If it quite flat, as is this, I realise I can vary the dynamics a bit to create more light and shade in the song. Just adds to the interest and delivers a bit more punch that way, I feel.
Enjoyable song though.
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I quite like what you call 'lead mayhem' CPM. The song is quite high energy in its deliberately retro style - reminds me in the chorus of The Who a bit.
As a mixing tip, well I always look at the final Soundwave shape, which is easy on SC. If it quite flat, as is this, I realise I can vary the dynamics a bit to create more light and shade in the song. Just adds to the interest and delivers a bit more punch that way, I feel.
Enjoyable song though.
Hi Michael, thanks for your honest words, keep em coming.
funny I noticed that too, with the waveform and tried to do something about it, I've done a couple of mixes since, (Ian Shephard, the dynamic range day guy, would turn in his grave - were he dead, but he ins't).
Do you know I've never been convinced by this song at all, I liked the lyrics and what the song is saying in 3mins or so, that's why I wanted to try again to see if I could make it appealing to me, maybe the first demo was not really my bag, I just wanted to do something different. I still think it would be better done by someone else, who does that grunge thing all the time, with an American singer.
Really chuffed that you like it.
cpm
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In about 15 minutes i'll post you the link to what i've done so far so you can hear it cpm.
It's sounding good. I did the intro and other parts to give you an idea of how it could sound. It's about 48 seconds long so far. I've added musical elements just so i can get the drums right. I needed something to work too.
15 mins ok
Johnny :)
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Hi cpm.
Here is what i've done so far. :)
Link: https://allihoopa.com/s/DUySBC6x
Johnny :)
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Thanks Johnny, great ideas, really appreciate it.
sounds great
cpm
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Heres my reworked v4
New rythym guitars, added BVox, removed some stuff, new solos.
https://soundcloud.com/cowparsleyman/she-shook-me-cold-v4
Let me know what you think
cpm
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Good track man!! Getting an early Stranglers mixed with FYC vibe.
Only to reiterate what others have said - some of the tracks need more defination and vocal definitely needs lifted out -
I have this on a quick link about mixing but maybe you'll get something out of it:
"Ok, once you're ready to start mixing, try this method: Bring up just your vocal track till it's at a comfortable loudness level. Now, slowly start bringing up the other tracks, one at a time. As you bring up each track, stay focused on the sound of her vocal track. If you bring up a track that seems to make her voice sound a little softer, shut the fader off for that track and go on to the next track, always listening to the vocal track as your reference, killing any track that makes her voice sound softer.
After you've gone thru all the tracks, you'll probably have 3 to 5 tracks shut off. Those are your problem tracks. You'll hafta eq, pan, compress, or reverb them, or leave them off altogether.
But listen closely to what you currently have going. Do you "REALLY" need "all" of those 5 missing tracks in the mix? Does the mix sound stronger without them? On the tracks you absolutely hafta have, put them where they don't cover the vocals, using any of the tools mentioned above. Then take about an hour break, get out of the studio, and come back later and listen to what you have. If you're satisfied, shut everything down, leaving all your settings in place.
Come back tomorrow and listen to it again. Tweak till you're happy, shut down, and repeat again the next day. The day you walk in and you're happy with what you did last night, is the day you have a finished mix. "
link: http://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/mixing-techniques/some-mixing-tips-329024/
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Good track man!! Getting an early Stranglers mixed with FYC vibe.
Only to reiterate what others have said - some of the tracks need more defination and vocal definitely needs lifted out -
I have this on a quick link about mixing but maybe you'll get something out of it:
"Ok, once you're ready to start mixing, try this method: Bring up just your vocal track till it's at a comfortable loudness level. Now, slowly start bringing up the other tracks, one at a time. As you bring up each track, stay focused on the sound of her vocal track. If you bring up a track that seems to make her voice sound a little softer, shut the fader off for that track and go on to the next track, always listening to the vocal track as your reference, killing any track that makes her voice sound softer.
After you've gone thru all the tracks, you'll probably have 3 to 5 tracks shut off. Those are your problem tracks. You'll hafta eq, pan, compress, or reverb them, or leave them off altogether.
But listen closely to what you currently have going. Do you "REALLY" need "all" of those 5 missing tracks in the mix? Does the mix sound stronger without them? On the tracks you absolutely hafta have, put them where they don't cover the vocals, using any of the tools mentioned above. Then take about an hour break, get out of the studio, and come back later and listen to what you have. If you're satisfied, shut everything down, leaving all your settings in place.
Come back tomorrow and listen to it again. Tweak till you're happy, shut down, and repeat again the next day. The day you walk in and you're happy with what you did last night, is the day you have a finished mix. "
link: http://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/mixing-techniques/some-mixing-tips-329024/
Hi marcus, thanks for taking the time to listen, glad you like it, great tips, I'll run through them to see where it takes me.
Regards
cpm
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I remixed it last week a couple of times.
and just been listening to it again, and a few things leap out at me now.
The rhythm guitars seem limp compared to what I wanted
1. A double Lead Vox in the Chorus
2. Less busy bass line in the Verse.
3. Not sure about the solos,
4. Definitely need a more gentle outro.
Let me know what you think
cpm
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I remixed it last week a couple of times.
and just been listening to it again, and a few things leap out at me now.
The rhythm guitars seem limp compared to what I wanted
1. A double Lead Vox in the Chorus
2. Less busy bass line in the Verse.
3. Not sure about the solos,
4. Definitely need a more gentle outro.
Let me know what you think
cpm
You are soon gonna be very very busy Rich! Cos i have needs here for backing vocals from you and i will pull them out of you like a dentist pulls teeth out if i have too!
Johnny :)
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That's cool Johnny, just let me know what you want me to do.
cpm
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A strange thing happened today, I listened to the original version and that sounded perfect in the earbuds on the phone whilst walking to work, absolutely how I wanted it. Then I listened to the remix 1 version, then the vox sounded better balanced, so the sweet spot is somewhere in between, so close yet so far...
cpm
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Hi CPM,
After just replying to your question about song titles I came to this area and saw this song. So I thought I'd have a listen. Strangely, it's the kind of tempo I expected from the title. :p
I haven't read (bar a few sentences) any of the previous posts (being new I'm having to skip a load of stuff to catch up) my first thoughts are I like the song but the vocals seem a little drowned out. They need a bit more oomph in parts, and the guitar a little quieter in others. Although I've only heard it the once so my perception may be a little ill-informed. I'll have to have a few more listens and see if it's just me.
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Hi CPM,
After just replying to your question about song titles I came to this area and saw this song. So I thought I'd have a listen. Strangely, it's the kind of tempo I expected from the title. :p
I haven't read (bar a few sentences) any of the previous posts (being new I'm having to skip a load of stuff to catch up) my first thoughts are I like the song but the vocals seem a little drowned out. They need a bit more oomph in parts, and the guitar a little quieter in others. Although I've only heard it the once so my perception may be a little ill-informed. I'll have to have a few more listens and see if it's just me.
Hi Sterix,
Thanks for the feedback from the other post, really appreciate your listen.
You're right about the levels, many of the other posts said the same, it's just on earbuds it's sounds with a couple of dB right...it needs a remix with the non LVox lowered, as the LVox is at 0db, a dangerous place to be in a mix.
Yeah my voice isn't right for the genre, if you know anyone who can nail this sort of thing, they are welcome to have a shot.
So I'll probably do it next week.
I'm still not convinced it's a good song though...This version is better than the demo version, but it still doesn't set me on fire.
Keep warm this weekend, and keep cool (musically)
cpm
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I had a couple of listens earlier today to the two versions, and again just now. I liked the song but couldn't quickly sum up what I thought was right and wrong with it. The descending melody line of the verse with the guitar works well, I think, and the chorus melody is good, so definitely worth working on.
I like the punky vibe that it has but I know what you (and others mean) about not being sure about it.
The second mix is tidier, but loses some of the energy, but the first was a bit too messy. Hard one to fix!!
Great guitar playing with the kind of spaced out feel in the solos.
I think the bass was a little too much - peddling behind the chords changes on a held note the first time through the chorus and then played high up ( I'm a bass player so I'd hate to say play less, but maybe different!) - I definitely think a Stranglers influenced bass line would go well, but maybe a bit more constrained.
I wonder if "dirtier" vocals would fit in better - as in a bit more edgy/shouty delivery?
Sorry if my thoughts are a bit messy!
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I had a couple of listens earlier today to the two versions, and again just now. I liked the song but couldn't quickly sum up what I thought was right and wrong with it. The descending melody line of the verse with the guitar works well, I think, and the chorus melody is good, so definitely worth working on.
I like the punky vibe that it has but I know what you (and others mean) about not being sure about it.
The second mix is tidier, but loses some of the energy, but the first was a bit too messy. Hard one to fix!!
Great guitar playing with the kind of spaced out feel in the solos.
I think the bass was a little too much - peddling behind the chords changes on a held note the first time through the chorus and then played high up ( I'm a bass player so I'd hate to say play less, but maybe different!) - I definitely think a Stranglers influenced bass line would go well, but maybe a bit more constrained.
I wonder if "dirtier" vocals would fit in better - as in a bit more edgy/shouty delivery?
Sorry if my thoughts are a bit messy!
Whato Das,
Thanks for the listen and the detailed review, you see there is something missing, hence my post here, I did put some dirt on the orignal verison, and It seems to sit better int he mix, also the non lead vox are lower in the mix.
I'll re listen with respect to your comments about the bass line, I'll try as Stranglers type riff.
Thanks very much indeed, that's what I need.
cpm
You think like me