The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Works in Progress => Topic started by: Ramshackles on January 31, 2018, 09:42:41 PM
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Hey all, its been ages since I posted any form of song at all, so I'm coming back with a roughly sketched out half song :P
We've been writing and recording, planning to start gigging here in France and maybe start youtubing.
Bit stuck on this song - I can't decide if it sounds too much or not, or what arrangement to settle on.
It's only half a song since the 2nd half doesn't have complete lyrics so I stopped playing when it gets to the change.
Pretty poor audio - we were just recording live into a camcorder (trying things out for youtubing...)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1hgADaKEaUrvXy7neWgUpX_PGvgwxZHDd
Keep it as just piano & voice or not? Any other thoughts?
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Hi Ram. The far away months, and great title and works so well in French. Listened a couple of times. The piano and vocals are both great and it would work like that imo. Just ideas but maybe a solo cello or maybe accordian as vous etres en France. It's a brilliant melody and has a sort of 30s or 40s feel to it. Good luck with the French gigs. In my experience, if you throw in one Johnny Haliday cover you will be local heroes :)
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Sorry, phone died. One Johnny Haliday, One original, One of Les Beatles in the early years. Vous etes ou en France ?
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Thanks pompey.
I'm in Roanne, which is not so far from Lyon.
I don't have a cello or accordion and don't (yet) know anyone who plays one so I might have to settle on a different instrument to accompany it...or none at all.
Johnny Haliday ;D
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Hi Ram
that's a great half a song. If that was the full length, I would stay with just piano and vocals. If you take it on longer, then it would be good to add a bit more instrumentation - I hear bass and tin whistles, but I play those so I would!
Could always do a remote collaboration to provide something like that, if you're interested
all the best, and enjoy France!
Dave
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I agree that this is a great half song. Some accordion would be amazing in the French section. Also, call me a whimsical fellow, but I think somebody whistling the piano melody would sound great. To confirm, that’s human whistling, not tin.
The music has a happy care-free feel about it, which is why I like the whistling idea. There’s a nice little change of pace at the end which, although not fully formed, point towards a decent second half/bridge/outro.
I look forward to seeing where this goes!
All the best.
Matt
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Thanks for the feedback!
So I'm gonna try and do a proper demo with the second half as well.
I'll see if I can incorporate your suggestions on extra instrumentation in the second half and see what it sounds like with the first half just vox & piano and a fuller arrangement on the next bit....
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We have started (ish) recording it:
https://soundcloud.com/ramshackles/loin-des-mois-demo-01/s-vtWtD
Still got to do the vocals on the second half but it is roughly the whole piano track (vocal tune for the 2nd half pretty much follows the piano). So I am thinking about leaving the first half - perhaps some bass toward the end as @dasntn suggested, then bringing in more instrumentation for the second half. I'm not sure what.
Perhaps some kind of percussion?
Or perhaps I need to split the piano arrangement for the second half across multiple instruments.
Would love a cello as @pompeyjazz suggested but prefer to keep instrumentation like that real...perhaps there is a cello player lurking in this town somewhere.
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Hi Ramshackles
Great idea, at about 1:30 that rhythm on the keys could be done on a finger picked guitar, there is a guitar in there providing the bass, but maybe that could be done by a double bass (that could be midi) that'll give the piece a break from the piano.
To my ears the blue notes 0:43 for example, don't suit the style of the piece, like bends in jazz guitar.
The re introduction of the theme at about 2:39 could be where it all joins up, maybe BVox
hope this helps...
cpm
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Hi
there's a lovely, wide open space feel to this. I do wonder if the piano around 1:20 is a bit overpowering for the vocal (lots of notes going on!). Looking forward to hearing the finished production!
cheers
Dave
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Thanks guys.
So I'm gonna take your advice and try the following:
- redo the piano without any blue notes
- Try to tone down the piano at 1:20 to a less cluttered part somehow
- Try doing the second part on guitar
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Thanks guys.
So I'm gonna take your advice and try the following:
- redo the piano without any blue notes
- Try to tone down the piano at 1:20 to a less cluttered part somehow
- Try doing the second part on guitar
Hi ramshackles, can’t wait to hear it, cpm
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Hello Rammshackles,
lovely piano. I’d love to hear a fully blown studio version of this with lots of instruments. It’s always a pleasure to hear songs in their early stages. The outro is delightful!
Paul
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I had a quick go at doing the piano outro on guitar, I'm not entirely convinced. Here is a short clip:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10MMeEATYYCTtGYqdkqbqBTJQoKqlgaxO/view?usp=sharing
Feels a bit like too much of a break to me? Perhaps with some other instrumentation, or recording the guitar a bit brighter so its' tonally more similar to the piano. Hmm.
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I had a quick go at doing the piano outro on guitar, I'm not entirely convinced. Here is a short clip:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10MMeEATYYCTtGYqdkqbqBTJQoKqlgaxO/view?usp=sharing
Feels a bit like too much of a break to me? Perhaps with some other instrumentation, or recording the guitar a bit brighter so its' tonally more similar to the piano. Hmm.
Hi The Shackles Meister
Thanks for trying...
Miles better...You are right it sounds to stark a cut off, but to my ears it's a more sonically interesting song, it does add a contrast, keep the piano going pan a bit left, retain the guitar fade it in and pan a bit right, add a double bass, then fade out the piano near the end, bring the guitar back to centre and a slow fade to black.
cpm
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Were you able to try this out? Ramshackles?
Just wondered?
cpm
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nice tune.. great when it kicks in on the shuffle on minute and half!
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Were you able to try this out? Ramshackles?
Just wondered?
cpm
Hey not yet.
I figured it would help to finish the lyrics for the second half. I've had a total block on this one and its taken me ages to write the lyrics. In the end I just forced myself to write down anything.
Still not finished, but this is what there is so far for the second half of the song:
[V1]
Cold stranger, you walk in to call in
You called me lover so many years ago
Old ranger, pass forest, through river
I called you mountain, so many years ago
[Break]
Through raking snowfall, breaking tracks ... (?)
...
Time moves slowly when your waiting on your lonely (?) mountain to call
[V2]
Cursed ocean, puts waves between us
... (?)
Torn cotton, puts sails between oceans
...
Not nearly finished! And a bit all over the place but I just needed to put something down. I'm going to force myself to finish them and get a rough vocal guide down to build the rest around.
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Were you able to try this out? Ramshackles?
Just wondered?
cpm
Hey not yet.
I figured it would help to finish the lyrics for the second half. I've had a total block on this one and its taken me ages to write the lyrics. In the end I just forced myself to write down anything.
Still not finished, but this is what there is so far for the second half of the song:
[V1]
Cold stranger, you walk in to call in
You called me lover so many years ago
Old ranger, pass forest, through river
I called you mountain, so many years ago
[Break]
Through raking snowfall, breaking tracks ... (?)
...
Time moves slowly when your waiting on your lonely (?) mountain to call
[V2]
Cursed ocean, puts waves between us
... (?)
Torn cotton, puts sails between oceans
...
Not nearly finished! And a bit all over the place but I just needed to put something down. I'm going to force myself to finish them and get a rough vocal guide down to build the rest around.
Sounds really good Shackles, really good indeed.
cpm
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Hi The shackmeister
Do let me know when you've got something together with it.
cpm
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Finished the lyrics to this and started recording some stuff for the outro part with guitars & piano. So here is the start of the outro, just instrumental:
https://soundcloud.com/ramshackles/loin-des-mois-outro/s-5cYPd
Nothing mixed or edited so pretty rough and levels low. Its really a PITA to play everything in time especially with the changing tempo...a lot of careful editing of the tempo track to get a good click.
There is a ukelele left and guitar right. I'm wondering about whether the piano should be recorded in mono to give some more space...No bass (yet). It won't be a double bass since I dont have one/cant play one, but it will be an acoustic bass....
Anyway, I think next I will record a few more takes of the guitar & uke then we will start to get some vocals down...maybe I'll be able post a rough demo of the whole thing soonish....
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Finished the lyrics to this and started recording some stuff for the outro part with guitars & piano. So here is the start of the outro, just instrumental:
https://soundcloud.com/ramshackles/loin-des-mois-outro/s-5cYPd
Nothing mixed or edited so pretty rough and levels low. Its really a PITA to play everything in time especially with the changing tempo...a lot of careful editing of the tempo track to get a good click.
There is a ukelele left and guitar right. I'm wondering about whether the piano should be recorded in mono to give some more space...No bass (yet). It won't be a double bass since I dont have one/cant play one, but it will be an acoustic bass....
Anyway, I think next I will record a few more takes of the guitar & uke then we will start to get some vocals down...maybe I'll be able post a rough demo of the whole thing soonish....
Hi Ramshackles
It sounds really great, I really dig the balance twixt the piano and guitar, Tempo changes are a pain, I don't know what DAW you use use, but isn't it possible just to change the tempo for audio and MIDI instruments? Magix Samplitude Pro X3 can do this.
Check this out, it can also xcgnage Time Sig. too
@0:25 Why not just let the piano continue alone, that'll wind it up nicely.
Might be a song to M/S the instruments and stick the Vox in the middle, if the acoustic bass starts trampling over the Vox, you might need a gentle S/C on it from the Vox.
Sounds really good Shackles...What is the Loin of a Mouse? :)
cpm
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Hey Rems will listen to this again listen from your first post man, sounds good 8)
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It sounds really great, I really dig the balance twixt the piano and guitar, Tempo changes are a pain, I don't know what DAW you use use, but isn't it possible just to change the tempo for audio and MIDI instruments? Magix Samplitude Pro X3 can do this.
Check this out, it can also xcgnage Time Sig.
cpm
Hey. I'm using Reaper to record (will probably switch to Cubase for mixing)
It's not really a problem to setup the tempo track, just takes time
I'm not using any MIDI so that's not a problem either 😀.
Should get some vocals done this week for a rough take of the whole track
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It sounds really great, I really dig the balance twixt the piano and guitar, Tempo changes are a pain, I don't know what DAW you use use, but isn't it possible just to change the tempo for audio and MIDI instruments? Magix Samplitude Pro X3 can do this.
Check this out, it can also xcgnage Time Sig.
cpm
Hey. I'm using Reaper to record (will probably switch to Cubase for mixing)
It's not really a problem to setup the tempo track, just takes time
I'm not using any MIDI so that's not a problem either 😀.
Should get some vocals done this week for a rough take of the whole track
That's OK, time, huh, never get enough of that for music...
look forward to hearing it
cpm
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I'm still working on this...
(https://preview.ibb.co/dtGVEx/IMG_20180405_213100974.jpg) (https://ibb.co/jfVqEx)
'Completed' the lyrics, although there is plenty I'm not sure about, but here they are, parts 1 and 2:
Far away, my lover does roam
How many years have I been on my own?
There comes a time when you're out of hope
You'll find your love has followed you back to your home
Loin de moi, mon amour de trouve
Le temps rallonge quand on est sèparè
Vient un moment où l'espoir s'envole
Quand toujours mon amour s'en revient près de moi
Près de moi...
Cold stranger, you walk in to call in
You called me lover, so many years ago
Old ranger, through forest to river
I called you mountain, so many years ago
Through raking snowfall, breaking tracks, throughout evenfall
Still the time moves slowly
When you're waiting on your lonely mountain to call
Cursed ocean, puts waves between us
Fight through the tempest and schemes of Prospero
Torn cotton, puts sails between oceans
And brings back mountain from so many years ago
Through raking snowfall, breaking tracks, throughout evenfall
Still the time moves slowly
When you're waiting on your lonely mountain to call
I am particularly not sure about the reference to the Tempest, might be a bit 'out there'....
We put down a guide vocal this week and then I got struck down by a cold :(. Had planned to re-do the piano track (the music above is me working out a better part for the end to the first half - someone had mentioned that the piano sounded to busy at that point - @dasntn (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=21309) I think?).
So I'll do that this weekend and hopefully get a full formed demo up...finally!
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I think it works great as it is but think it could work better with little bass. Pompey mentions the Cello, that would work......Er would help if I listened to the latest version...
Ahh the guitar adds a nice new element to it and mixes up the rhythm! I like it. (I did try playing some travis picking over the top and my guitar is horrendously out of tune so I won't share but it's really fun to play along with). Wow and you've written it out like proper music! Fair play to you.
Just reading the lyrics and I think they really suit this style. I don't know what the bit in French means so can't comment but the rest works for me!
Interested to hear this develop.
Oh and good luck with the gigging!
All the best
Darren
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Looking forward to hearing the latest version!
cheers
Dave
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Another update...the full track, unmixed, unfinished etc...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZLqQbS2clM9ZWzERzIzca35P7ByAgJuy/view?usp=sharing
I'm not crazy about the oohs at the end, can't think of a better way to finish at the moment though. Perhaps if I re-recorded the guitars at the end to be in time it would click a bit better!
Thinking about a little bit of bass maybe?
Also wondering about dropping the piano from the second half at strategic points...e.g. for the first 8 bars maybe, and then the piano comes back in? Not sure.
After that it will be time to start thinking about mixing...
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Lol I just realised I forgot to chop out the chatter at the start!
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Lol I just realised I forgot to chop out the chatter at the start!
Haha I did wonder....
I really like the ending myself. The harmonies on the vocal sound very nice. I did feel around the 3.15 mark some bass was needed but that's my only comment for this. It is very well played and sung and an enjoyable listen. Be great to hear this once mixed etc.
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Hi
sounding really good. It has a wonderfully different feel to so much of what you here these days. There's something of a "period" feel to it (not sure what period, maybe 1920's France) which is lovely.
I think the oohs coming in as they do at the end is a bit of an abrupt change of feel for the ending. But maybe, bringing them in earlier on behind a verse (perhaps if you go with the dropping the piano for a bit idea, then at that point), would make them integrate more with the overall feel. I also think an accordion coming in somewhere round the middle (perhaps where the tempo changes) would be interesting (probably reflecting my France 1920's view, so might not be what you are after!)
The piano playing is lovely!
cheers
Dave
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Hi Ramshackles
It's really taken shape...
Love the voices at the beginning, Dave is right maybe some vinyl fx over it to give it a period vibe.
Superb transition to the guitar bit, when the vox climbs up to about 2:25, there could possibly benefit from a stop (for breath as it were).
Nice shaker too.
Would a stand up bass and/or accordion bring anything to it?
All in all a super Song,
Look forward to hearing it after you've mixed and prodded it.
Thanks very much say my ears.
cpm
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It's been ages but I'm coming back to this. Couldn't get the 'big' ending right at all, so I'm going for a 'small' ending instead.
Taken all your comments on board and going to address/add a few things (like a bit of bass) and then just go for a 'finished version'....
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It's been ages but I'm coming back to this. Couldn't get the 'big' ending right at all, so I'm going for a 'small' ending instead.
Taken all your comments on board and going to address/add a few things (like a bit of bass) and then just go for a 'finished version'....
It's definitely worth finishing it, some songs just linger longer, that's how it goes, but these tend to come out really well, becasue if you didn't like 'em they would have been into the trash before now, I bet it'll be a keeper.
Really interested to hear it.
cpm