The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: cowparsleyman on January 05, 2018, 11:41:50 AM
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Hi,
This is my first finished song in this forum, thanks for taking the time to listen to it, I hope you like it, and I'd be very grateful to anyone who can advise on how they think it can be improved.
https://soundcloud.com/cowparsleyman/these-early-hours
It was written like this. My Father died in 2013, which was a loss but not unexpected, then a year later his brother died too, he was similar to my Father in so many ways.
I just pictured God calmly pouring out 2 cups of tea, sitting at a coffee table with 2 chairs opposite each other, with a couple of sandwiches, finishing his and then saying something like, "OK must get back to work, and then saying to my Uncle in a way that only he could hear... "Oh by the way, it's time and your tea is getting cold", then he died.
It was all very clear to me at the time.
The lyrics are:
V1
I was thinking to myself the other day,
What happens when God decides to say,
It seems like we both know that it's time for us to go,
I just don't know how to carry on
V2
I was talking to myself the other night
didn't seem to help but it might
It's not within my power, to help you in these early hours,
So dry your eyes and try and get some sleep.
Guitar Solo
V3
Not thinking of anything at all
eyes are shut feeling very small
Gods face appeared and smiled
I've been watching you for quite a while
it's time and your tea is getting cold
it's time you know, and your tea is getting cold.
it's time and your tea is getting cold.
I played all instruments, and sang.
and for those who are interested...
The drums are Yamaha dtextremeIII
The guitar solo is a classic vibe Squier Tele through a Palmer fat 50 valve amp, mic'd up.
The acoustic is a Gibson J30
The bass is a Yamaha trb4 through a roland cube 100
The shaker is an old cistern ballcock filled with rice.
Recorded in Samplitude Pro x3, I try not to process the sound too much.
Rode mics
Mastered with Sony Soundforge 11.
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I think this has a lot of potential. The lyrical concept is strong and the story hangs together well. You have a great voice and the guitar playing in particular is excellent. The song reminded me of an English Neil Young!
With regard to suggestions, firstly, I think the drums are a little off: the timing of this song would be challenging even for a human drummer, hence using loops is even more difficult. You could either try without drums, or perhaps try using one of the standard loops in Samplitude (there are many to choose from!) and then adjust the timing accordingly ... although I realise that's a lot of rework).
Secondly, if there was a chorus or even a short refrain, perhaps incorporating the "tea is getting cold" line, I think that would give it a stronger "hook".
Hope this helps,
Kevin
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Hi Kevin
Thanks for your comments, much appreciated. never really considered myself as a singer...(mind you Hendrix didn't either) Blimey to be compared with Neil Young, that's praise indeed.
Your'e right about the drums, the ears don't lie....and maybe the shaker too in parts.
I just didn't really want a drum loop on this, as I wanted it to breathe a bit, it probably better if I try and nudge everything on the rhythm side back in time, maybe Melodyne can help me here.
Great idea about a refrain, I'll work on something using your idea.
Yes it does help Kevin, very much.
CPM
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Hey there
Had a quick listen I think the song could be improved if the melody changed on the 3rd line of every verse, e.g
"It seems like we both know that it's time for us to go,"
If the melody went up (to a max on 'know') somewhat here I think it would add a bit more interest to keep people hooked and resolve some of the tension from the first two lines.
Then on the second part of the line - "time for us to go", it would be cool if the drum and guitar rhythm broke here to just play & accent each beat:
"TIME for US to GO".
This would bring the verse to a nice close and provide the break/respite before going into the next verse/section.
It seems like its in E minor so you could end singing "Know" on top E and then either do "time for us to go" walking down B to G and maybe on the last one or something go for broke and jump up to top G and end on E
Just an idea :P
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Thanks very much for this, I agree, the song does sound like it's lacking ideas on the melody, thanks for pointing that out.
I really appreciate your time and comments.
CPM
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Cool song. Got a neat 60s/slacker vibe. Like a cross between Simon @ Garfunkel and Pavement. Good use of minimalist production. Emphasises the good guitar playing
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Thanks Mickey and all
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.
I've just finished doing another version taking into account the comments from this forum, I recorded this a couple of years ago, so I was lucky that everything still worked.
I melodyned the slack drums, which was a first for me...and put some backing vox before the solo, (not so sure about those....) I didn't do the change in the Lead Vox, that might come later on, maybe other people have some more comments.
But all your comments were exactly what I need to stop thinking a song is finished.
Thanks very much.
Here's the link to the revised version. I guess this doesn't break the forum rules as it's the same song.
https://soundcloud.com/cowparsleyman/intheseearlyhours
I won't delete the old one from Soundcloud becasue people might be directed to it from the earlier posts.
Thanks again
CPM
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Oh boy, go back to version 1! Version 1 had heart and soul to it! Version 2 sounds exactly like what happened - ie you tinkered with certain things trying to achieve something better and ended up only with something different!
Whilst I agree version 1 was a little out here and there on the timings it was miniscule in reality, and more to do with the way the guitar part was dovetailing (or not) with certain parts of the drum lines. A really good bass player would sort that in a jiffy working with the drummer. I would stick with what you had first - which was Aimee Mann all over - and only ever re-do it if you come across a good, solid live rhythm section of human bass player and drummer who have worked together before. That is the only fix needed IMHO.
It's bloody brilliant.
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Dear Purple Cherry, I'm glad you took the time to listen to it.
It's very much like painting in oils, it's all to easy to keep going, when one should stop.
My late grandfather used to say stop when you think you'd like to eat some more, wise words indeed.
The drumming issues on v1 did kind of prick up my ears a bit, and I don't know if you've recorded a lot, but you'll always remember those bits that should have been ironed out in the tracking stage.
I'd sacrifice accuracy for feel anyday. Just lsiten to most of my songs, you liked it didn't you, warts and all.
But I think I agree with you, I prefer the original.
Thanks again.
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Great song and well performed, I agree with the Neil Young comparison on the backing track, the vocal is not like him but is still great, I also prefer the first verson, even though there are a couple of places where the timing slipped a bit.
Nice job, Mikey (another Devon boy!)
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Nice song! I prefer the first version. I think it leaves more to the imagination sound wise. But I'm a minimalist sometimes. I like the lead guitar sound, it works well with the acoustic guitar.
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Thanks for the feedback, well, it seems that v1 is the way forward, despite the timing issues, I never considered myself to be a drummer, but at least I tried...
I'm really grateful for the comments from everyone, it seems the song is quite well received.
Regards
CPM
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Hi Cowparsleyman, big welcome to the forum.
So listening to the first version, first impressions were:
- You've got a great voice. You don't over-sing / over-emote.
- Nice acoustic guitar sound.
- I dig the "tea's getting cold" lines. (I like it a lot when very un-rock-and-roll lines get used like this!)
- Very nice guitars solos.
- The ending seemed to peter out a bit, I'd make that a bit more defined I think.
Then listening to the second version:
- Thought the extra reverb on your voice worked well.
- I liked the pre-chorus vocal additions.
On balance I'll buck the trend and say I prefer version 2 - a richer sound and because of those BVs.
Still need to fix that ending though!
Super song to show up with. Looking forward to hearing more of your stuff.
Pauly
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You've gotten some good responses to your production, which I know nothing about, anyway, so I'll just say...I really like the words and your voice, and how you sing it. I only listened to the first version. I know there's nothing helpful here, but I wanted to let you know I like it a lot.
Vicki
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Hi Cowparsleyman, big welcome to the forum.
So listening to the first version, first impressions were:
- You've got a great voice. You don't over-sing / over-emote.
- Nice acoustic guitar sound.
- I dig the "tea's getting cold" lines. (I like it a lot when very un-rock-and-roll lines get used like this!)
- Very nice guitars solos.
- The ending seemed to peter out a bit, I'd make that a bit more defined I think.
Then listening to the second version:
- Thought the extra reverb on your voice worked well.
- I liked the pre-chorus vocal additions.
On balance I'll buck the trend and say I prefer version 2 - a richer sound and because of those BVs.
Still need to fix that ending though!
Super song to show up with. Looking forward to hearing more of your stuff.
Pauly
Hi PaulyX
Thanks very much for your comments, glad you like the song.
I like to use lyrics that are a bit unusual, as you say, away from the phone/home/love/breakup thing...
I've got plenty of ideas and previous pieces that don't conform to the mould, so if you keep an eye out, my next song I might put up is called 'special' it's everything that's special to me...
Hmm what does a poor man do, flip flop, between 1 and 2...yeah the ending, that's a thing with my songs, you've uncovered my sloppiness...endings should be tight as the begining I know, so I have to work on that.
Thanks again
CPM
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You've gotten some good responses to your production, which I know nothing about, anyway, so I'll just say...I really like the words and your voice, and how you sing it. I only listened to the first version. I know there's nothing helpful here, but I wanted to let you know I like it a lot.
Vicki
Thanks Vicki, I've noticed, you respond a lot in this forum, so I take your comments as a real compliment.
It's more than enough to know you like my voice, that's always been something I didn't have much confidence about. As for the words, they just come from the soul, and I think it's how they are carried by the melody that's the important bit..Bowie could make you sing along with the most peculiar lyrics, and no one would care because the melody is so hooky.
as for the knack of production, it's just down to concerntration, really listening, and being really picky even a nudge of a slider here, and a hair less of rvb there. The best analogy is when a musician says they have a piece ready, it's very often that they just know how to play it, getting it ready to perform can take just as long.
I'm fired up by the comments I've received from this forum, so I'm off to have a go at the un finished co noshussness that I've put up for comment....
Bye for now.
Rich
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Nice song! I prefer the first version. I think it leaves more to the imagination sound wise. But I'm a minimalist sometimes. I like the lead guitar sound, it works well with the acoustic guitar.
Thanks Martinswede
I spend quite a while making sure the instrument sounds right, mic type, mic placement, stomp box etc. at the tracking stage.
This makes mixing and mastering so much easier, along with a very clear idea of how I want it to sound.
CPM
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You didn't disappoint me with the picture of cow parsley on your SC page!
The gently jaunty guitar strumming is nice and adds a lot of character to the track....
The vocal is good too...very natural sounding and a nice timbre to it.
I wasn't so fond of the lead guitar part, played nicely enough but it doesn't seem in keeping somehow whether that's a mix thing or a not fitting thing or just me being a difficult sod....maybe a bit loud?
Is the snare panned a bit too much off centre?
NOW....I've just listened to the remix and the lead guitar seems to fit in better...must have been a mix thing....but I still prefer the first version in general.
Anyway it's a really good introduction to your stuff. Enjoyed it!
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Pretty good song - full of atmosphere and some nice guitar work.
Enjoyable vocal delivery.
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That was really moving. I loved the guitar rhythm, which reminded me a bit of Aimee Mann. The lyrics really won me over at the end, with your tea is getting cold. I think that says something so complex, but with an elegant simplicity.
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You didn't disappoint me with the picture of cow parsley on your SC page!
The gently jaunty guitar strumming is nice and adds a lot of character to the track....
The vocal is good too...very natural sounding and a nice timbre to it.
I wasn't so fond of the lead guitar part, played nicely enough but it doesn't seem in keeping somehow whether that's a mix thing or a not fitting thing or just me being a difficult sod....maybe a bit loud?
Is the snare panned a bit too much off centre?
NOW....I've just listened to the remix and the lead guitar seems to fit in better...must have been a mix thing....but I still prefer the first version in general.
Anyway it's a really good introduction to your stuff. Enjoyed it!
Hi Viscount, Thanks for your comments, the cowparsley picture was taken on my walk to work, in good weather I was 7km along a river to work, it's a great way to ease myself into work, and I get to see all sorts of wildlife.
In these early hours picture too was taken a bit further upstream.
I find lead guitar very difficult to get the levels right, as in the cans they sound OK, but in the car it might sound a tad loud, as for the snare, I like to be able to give vox and lead instruments centre stage sometimes, you certainly have a point, If I remix it, then I'll look at that.
Thanks again for your very constructive comments.
CPM
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Pretty good song - full of atmosphere and some nice guitar work.
Enjoyable vocal delivery.
Thanks Moorefrog
I appreciate that you took time to listen to it.
CPM
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That was really moving. I loved the guitar rhythm, which reminded me a bit of Aimee Mann. The lyrics really won me over at the end, with your tea is getting cold. I think that says something so complex, but with an elegant simplicity.
Goodness redhodie, glad you were moved by it.I've not heard of Aimee Mann, but I'll check her out. you know, sometimes one gets the right lyric with ease, sometimes it could not be more difficult - check out my American-esque high school pop song that needs lyrics in the unfinished forum, you'll hear the current nonsense that I've rather clumsily stapled together...
Great to know you.
CPM
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Hi Cowparsleyman, big welcome to the forum.
So listening to the first version, first impressions were:
- You've got a great voice. You don't over-sing / over-emote.
- Nice acoustic guitar sound.
- I dig the "tea's getting cold" lines. (I like it a lot when very un-rock-and-roll lines get used like this!)
- Very nice guitars solos.
- The ending seemed to peter out a bit, I'd make that a bit more defined I think.
Then listening to the second version:
- Thought the extra reverb on your voice worked well.
- I liked the pre-chorus vocal additions.
On balance I'll buck the trend and say I prefer version 2 - a richer sound and because of those BVs.
Still need to fix that ending though!
Super song to show up with. Looking forward to hearing more of your stuff.
Pauly
Hi PaulyX
I put some lyrics on the American pop song I put up on the unfinished forum, and you are in them....
CPM
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Yo CPM and welcome to the forum.
I too hear the Neil Young influences,kinda like a lighter Hey,hey,my my.
You've a good voice and the song is solid. The off kilter drum are an unwanted distraction,that part needs sorted or leave them out.
Cool song. 8)
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Yo CPM and welcome to the forum.
I too hear the Neil Young influences,kinda like a lighter Hey,hey,my my.
You've a good voice and the song is solid. The off kilter drum are an unwanted distraction,that part needs sorted or leave them out.
Cool song. 8)
Good morning Skub.
Glad you like the song, I like your directness. I think I can't rest until I re record the drum track, so I will do it again, I just liked the fils, quite open, I've forgotten which kit I used, so I can't just punch in the corrections....
Do you know, I've never really heard any Neil Young, so I'm at a loss to know what he sounds like, I think he did horse with no name, was that him?
A few years ago I gave up trying to do other peoples stuff, i think I'll post something on a different part of the forum about that because I'd like to hear what people think...but essentially I'm recording just my own stuff now.
Skub, where do you get your inspiration?
Regards
cpm
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Skub, where do you get your inspiration?
Regards
cpm
:D
I have a head full of slamming doors! :D
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Very impressive song. I thought the sound was thick and natural. The lyrics are strong and moving when you understand what's behind them. There's a lot of potential for this song. I'm impressed.
If there's one thing that could be improved, I couldn't hear much bass at all. so perhaps you could increase the bass volume next time.
wish you the best,good luck.
dom
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Hi CPM. I'm really impressed with your first complete submission. You've obviously got a lot to get out and you've done it so well. Great feel and excellent production. Only little nits were that the guitar solo was maybe a bit too loud and I don't know if the trailing solo really worked. Anyway, personal preference etc etc.....
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Very impressive song. I thought the sound was thick and natural. The lyrics are strong and moving when you understand what's behind them. There's a lot of potential for this song. I'm impressed.
If there's one thing that could be improved, I couldn't hear much bass at all. so perhaps you could increase the bass volume next time.
wish you the best,good luck.
dom
Dear Dom
Thanks very much for your feedback, I remember now, I wanted the bass to be way in the back, becasue I felt the drums sort of did what the bass was going to do. I heard an interview with Tony Levin once about how he go the bass sound for 'Don't give up' with Peter Gabriel and Kate Bush, and he said that he put a baby's nappy under the strings to deaden it, so it didn't ring, so I tried it with a sock and I liked how it sounded, more understated, more of a soft thud than a ring.
Glad you like it.
CPM
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Hi CPM. I'm really impressed with your first complete submission. You've obviously got a lot to get out and you've done it so well. Great feel and excellent production. Only little nits were that the guitar solo was maybe a bit too loud and I don't know if the trailing solo really worked. Anyway, personal preference etc etc.....
Hi PompeyJazz (love that name)
Yeah I do have a lot to get out, thats true, I'm thinking about putting up some of my older songs that I thought were awful, I guess these are the best ones to get ideas for and maybe turn them into something worthwhile.
I agree the guitar solo is a bit loud, I have experimented with guitar solos volume in the past and it's really tricky to get the level right, I think you've listened to mu unfinished song (C0-noshusnnes (Texas Twisterv2), now that solo is definately too loud, and there is one or two notes that are out of time, which really bugs me....
Some of the comments I'm getting in this forum is about volume/levels, but I have to take into account each person's hearing spectrum, what they are playing the song back on, so that can be a slippery old slope. It's good to hear your comments PompeyJazz.
Thanks
CPM
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Enjoyed your song. Really interesting idea and lyric. Strong vocal and guitar playing. Possibly a few rhythmic issues with the percussion. Maybe a middle eight woul lend a bit of contrast?
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Enjoyed your song. Really interesting idea and lyric. Strong vocal and guitar playing. Possibly a few rhythmic issues with the percussion. Maybe a middle eight woul lend a bit of contrast?
Thanks very much for the feedback, Do you know, I was thinking the same thing about a middle 8, just this morning, got any ideas?
Regards
CPM
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You didn't disappoint me with the picture of cow parsley on your SC page!
The gently jaunty guitar strumming is nice and adds a lot of character to the track....
The vocal is good too...very natural sounding and a nice timbre to it.
I wasn't so fond of the lead guitar part, played nicely enough but it doesn't seem in keeping somehow whether that's a mix thing or a not fitting thing or just me being a difficult sod....maybe a bit loud?
Is the snare panned a bit too much off centre?
NOW....I've just listened to the remix and the lead guitar seems to fit in better...must have been a mix thing....but I still prefer the first version in general.
Anyway it's a really good introduction to your stuff. Enjoyed it!
Hi again 'The Count'
Youre right the snare is way too left...
Regards
CPM
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Hi,
Good intro like the tune. Good snare and really like your vocals, and its obviously a heartfelt lyrically.
Thoughts around production, your vocals should be louder on the key last lines on the 2nd and 3rd - dry your eyes when and try to get some sleep, its time now your tea is getting cold etc.
I agree you could tighten up the the drums and rhythm. Not sure what you're recording set up is, are you able to follow a click track? I also cant hear any bass? if you need some on a track just pm me and I'll see if I can help.
:)
neil
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Hi,
Good intro like the tune. Good snare and really like your vocals, and its obviously a heartfelt lyrically.
Thoughts around production, your vocals should be louder on the key last lines on the 2nd and 3rd - dry your eyes when and try to get some sleep, its time now your tea is getting cold etc.
I agree you could tighten up the the drums and rhythm. Not sure what you're recording set up is, are you able to follow a click track? I also cant hear any bass? if you need some on a track just pm me and I'll see if I can help.
:)
neil
Hi Neil
Thanks very much for your comments, much appreciated. The drums are more than a bit ragged, following the suggestions from this forum I sat down and tried to do them again, and they were kind of better, although the first take feel had gone, so I think I'll try and knife and fork it to fit - always a dodgy approach, like removing an organ....
The lead vox, your'e right about that it needs emphasising, well I wonder whether a tracking Vox would work here, quite low in the mix? just on the lyrics that you mention, may be a Female vocalist to add colour? Do you know any that might be willing to assist?
I nearly always drum to a click track, you wouldn't think it would you?
As for the bass I wanted it quite low and dead in the mix, almost to imply a bass note rather than to really hear it.
Thanks again
CPM
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Hi, enjoyed this, it made me think of Neil Young but not in a copycat way. Production sounded good apart from the off centre snare which was irritating :o. Singing was very good reminded me a bit of someone, Steve Forbert maybe?
Good stuff!
Cheers
Jamie
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Hi, enjoyed this, it made me think of Neil Young but not in a copycat way. Production sounded good apart from the off centre snare which was irritating :o. Singing was very good reminded me a bit of someone, Steve Forbert maybe?
Good stuff!
Cheers
Jamie
Hi Jamie
Really appreciate your comments, thanks for taking the time to listen. A couple of people have commented on the off centre snare, I now remember how that came about, I wanted the kit to sound as the drums were placed in front of me, so I moved them about, the snare got moved to far... also I wanted to experiment with giving more space to the lead Vox and the guitar solo.
I was more peturbed by the off timing of the drums, I will get round to fixing that.
Thanks again
CPM
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This a nice groove to it
sometimes there're abrupt stops to this groove, I don't know if that was intentional
Mostly I like it
The voice and lyrics are lovely
The does break at times though
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Thanks Rightly for your observations
cpm
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I like the counter-melodies provided by the guitar accompaniment. The final solo is a bit more old school than the rest though, not sure if it was a good fit stylistically. All the rest of the guitar - great!
Very good lyrics, a song that obviously means a lot to you and you can tell that in the performance. well done.
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I like the counter-melodies provided by the guitar accompaniment. The final solo is a bit more old school than the rest though, not sure if it was a good fit stylistically. All the rest of the guitar - great!
Very good lyrics, a song that obviously means a lot to you and you can tell that in the performance. well done.
Hi MiachaelA, thanks for listening, it's funny I got the harmony for the Vox from the solo...and yes it does mean a lot to me.
Regards
cpm