The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Writing Process => Topic started by: 2tuoo on October 18, 2017, 09:42:36 PM
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Hi Songwriters. (my first post here, like what you did with the place)
I'm not native English speaker but I write in other 2 languages.
My current writing technique/tool is Google Doc with one of Thesaurus plugins for rhymes.
In my 2 other languages, I find it easy to rhyme specific word types (verbs in one, adjectives in another)
When I'm writing in English I tend to get to the end of the lines with random word types/functions and finding a rhyme becomes difficult or even impossible which slows down the process and confuses me.
My question is:
1. What word types are best for Rhyming in English
2. What is the tolerance limit? (Example in my 2 other languages the rhymes need to be perfect - so Storm and Prom would not be tolerated a rhyme in any situation)
Thanks!
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Hi and welcome to the forum
1
I would say any words can be rhymes in English
The biggest "trap" you may fall in to is writing in "Yoda speak" to make a rhyme fit
E.g.
As the man walked in to the flat
It was on the floor he sat
The word order in the second line doesn't feel right - younwould naturally say "he sat on the floor"
2
I think this is more dependent on genre than anything else
Some genres work better with "perfect" rhymes - e.g. Musical theatre
If you are writing in a more contemporary/modern style "perfect rhymes" can sound a little "twee" or cliche
An "imperfect" rhyme at the end of lines often sounds more natural / conversational
Internal rhymes (i.e. rhymes within lines at times) often work really well to add some interesting "spice" and flow to your lyrics - this can be alliteration, assonance, or rhymes
Hope this helps
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Thanks!
I reviewed some of my songs, yoda speak found :)
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Ah - Yoda speak found you did
It is very common and probably the biggest trap for those starting out with lyric writing
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Hi,
Whilst a consistent rhyming scheme is helpful it need not be slavishly followed. Try writing a song without rhymes that is hard in any native tongue...
:)
Neil
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What's a song without rhymes?
Is that prose?
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What's a song without rhymes?
Is that prose?
No. A song isn't defined as a song merely because of the rhymes. It's the rhythm and structure too. Prose is more un-structured text, just sentences and paragraphs. You could, however, make it rhyme, but it still wouldn't be a song.
Welcome to the forum by the way :)
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Hi Songwriters. (my first post here, like what you did with the place)
I'm not native English speaker but I write in other 2 languages.
My current writing technique/tool is Google Doc with one of Thesaurus plugins for rhymes.
In my 2 other languages, I find it easy to rhyme specific word types (verbs in one, adjectives in another)
When I'm writing in English I tend to get to the end of the lines with random word types/functions and finding a rhyme becomes difficult or even impossible which slows down the process and confuses me.
My question is:
1. What word types are best for Rhyming in English
2. What is the tolerance limit? (Example in my 2 other languages the rhymes need to be perfect - so Storm and Prom would not be tolerated a rhyme in any situation)
Thanks!
Post your songs/lyrics the written words keep changing you know what i mean.
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Thanks, everybody!
From what I read so far - there is no clear consensus on word types. For me, that means that everything is legitimate in English rhymes so I'll feel less awkward when writing from now on :)
I'll look into song with no rhymes, maybe this is a challenge worth taking on regular basis
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Yes, it's not really about types of words. For me, the most important thing is always "does this sound weird if I read I say it?"
The Yoda speak thing is a good example of it not sounding right when you read it out, but there are other ways things can end up being weird, like if you have to emphasise the wrong syllable to make it rhyme. For example:
I like apples, that's just me
I think apples are tasty
The last syllable of "tasty" rhymes with me, but it sounds all wrong when you sing it, because when speaking the word "tasty", the emphasis is always on the first syllable, not the last.
Another thing I'd suggest avoiding are the clichés that pop up everywhere. Rhyming "to" with "do" or "you". Rhyming "girl" with "world". But maybe that's a matter of taste :)
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Hi,
When i write a song i don't look to rhyme in order to get the lyrics that i need for whatever song it is. The driving force for my lyrics is always the songs message. I try to stay true to that at all times. With each lyric line that i write i try to point at my songs title. Sometimes you can't always do that with each line so a few lines down is still ok. The more you remind the listener of the title of your song ( without actually saying the title until the chorus kicks in) the stronger the song IMO.
I hope this helps.
Johnny :)
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Rhyming in such a powerful tool for songwriters. When it's done well, it is so admirable and effective.
When I write, I think about what Jimmy Webb once said "songwriters are the Swiss watch makers of literacy". We can all try to live up to Webb's description. I guess he means that we are communicating strong emotions, painting pictures with words. The skill is doing so within a short space of time, often 2:30 minutes to 3:30 minutes. The songs that I admire, deliver their message and emotion with the use of rhymes but the rhymes are carefully pondered and used only when they enhance the story -telling. Songwriting is for me, about adhering to structures crafting the lyrics meticulously, observing a strict number of syllables to deliver a message that is never compromised. If you don't feel that you've achieved your goal within that framework, then go back again to make sure that's you do. Throw your initial idea out and craft a new message that is as effective as the first that you struggled to communicate within the framework that you have available. That's how I interpret the words of Jimmy Webb. A beautifully crafted song can't be thrown together. It is like a Swiss watch!
Paul
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Very interesting topic, I always learn so much from here, with rhymes I like to rhyme the ending word with one in another place, by extending or contracting the line with the next rhyme, maybe like this...
I would love this line to rhyme
but it neither the time, nor the place
I'd give anything to see your face again
but then really, I'll be fine
I don't know what this technique is called but to my ear, it makes things more interesting, yet glued together with rhymes, and having a powerful,underlying message.
hope this helps
cpm