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Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Finished songs => Topic started by: montydog on August 02, 2017, 03:27:52 PM

Title: Silver & Gold
Post by: montydog on August 02, 2017, 03:27:52 PM
Hi Guys and Gals,

I've been off the forum for a while; needed a break but I couldn't stay away! I have a new post on Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/alan-walker-4/silver-gold

Thanks to Boydie for mastering my finished mix - you're a star:-)

It's a song about how chasing wealth can lead to an empty, bitter life.
As ever, all comments and critiques gratefully received.

Sun is on the whiskered wheat
Roll your windows down
Breathe in the August heat
Turn your head around

The one that you loved
Has blown away
Dark ashes on the wind
Only you know what remains

You have your silver and gold
But you can't bring a life back
Running on the wrong track
With nothing to hold

There's a devil chasing you
Dry and hard like a whip crack
Bleached bones in a tin shack
Freight train howling through

When you were a child
Caught in the chromium shine
You looked at me and smiled
"One day all this will be mine"
And now you say
You've seen behind the mask
Sat in the dark all day
While the light slipped from your grasp

High on the hill
Grey markers mock & lean
Tilting to the pull
Of somewhere we've never been

One day you will see
A shining black parade
Seven horses and an old man
Seeking shelter from the shade
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: giitlesriddles on August 02, 2017, 05:14:26 PM
I always write these as I listen
I'm digging the intro on acoustic guitar. And the bass is giving me John Paul Jones Vibes. The singings got that 70s vibe and I'm digging it. The layering is very very good. I'm just seein this as a 6 minute song and we already have harmonica, drums electric, acoustic guitar, and organ and bass a minute and a half in . Maybe slow with the layering. Let it build.
Your singing is giving me Johnny Cash vibes and I'm digging it. However the harmonica solo seems a bit out of key at times. Is that on purpose?
I like the lyrics and the lines like "Finding shelter from the shade really stick out." And when you sing and the instruments drop out, it's very powerful, would you consider having your voice get a bit more gruff there. Sing a bit louder.
The guitar solo is very minimalist and I dig it. It fits the song. Is that done on a dobro? I feel like you should have kept acoustic guitar through the fade out.

Good song man
It has all the right vibes, just some minor things in composition could be improved on a bit for the next song you write but thats always the case.
Good work
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: PaulyX on August 02, 2017, 07:21:50 PM
Really evocative stuff.  Love the lyrics... they felt just the right side of cryptic - loved 'chromium shine' and 'seeking shelter from the shade' in particular.  I'm guessing the last 2 verses are about a funeral but not sure - it is terrific imagery you use, zero cliches.  Musically I liked it a lot too, especially the harmonica and the reedy organ, they lent it all a sense of space.  I imagine myself trundling through some lonely wide open plain when listening to this... you've transported me.  Big thumbs up.
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Mikey on August 02, 2017, 07:33:54 PM
Nice tone on the acoustic, and the bass sounds good too, some interesting lines in the lyrics, I thought it was a bit too long though, it may have worked better if it was shorter, good track though

Mikey
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: CaliaMoko on August 02, 2017, 09:10:34 PM
I like the message in this a lot! I'm taken by several of the phrases..."Sun is on the whiskered wheat", Dark ashes on the wind", "Running on the wrong track", "Caught in the chromium shine"...there's more. On different journeys through the song, different parts stand out.

There are a few bits I might do differently, but I'm not sure it would make them better...one is "There's a devil chasing you", where I might make do with "A devil's chasing you". A couple things like that. And I would probably use "cleaner" diction (eg, a clear "that you" instead of "thatchew").

This is great as poetry, in my opinion. Setting it to music adds to the ambiance. I enjoyed the production, also.

Vicki

Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: pompeyjazz on August 02, 2017, 10:12:23 PM
Hi Alan and welcome back. I always read the lyrics before listening to the music and can empathise with you. Lovely acoustic sound and vocals sounding very good. Of course a song of over six minutes  is going to get some crit. I enjoyed it but maybe the vocal breakdown section could have been shorter / enhanced by solo instrument. Overall a very good song
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Skub on August 02, 2017, 10:39:57 PM
Yo Alan,mighty good to see you back.  :)

Captivating and powerful lyrics on this one.

It has a desolate,melancholy feel which compliments the dark prose perfectly.

I'm seeing some of the desert scenes in Breaking Bad with Walt and Jessie brewing meth in their camper van. That's the kind of places the song takes me. I found it wears it's long black,dusty coat of 6 minutes very well.

Love the guitar in the closing stages. Mood music For sure.  8)
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: shadowfax on August 03, 2017, 08:13:52 AM
A standard Monty excellent song....paints an evocative picture, very well done, great lyrics, I think the arrangement is wrong for a track this long...everything comes in way too early and makes the song start to drag towards the end.....the first minute and a half should have been only voice and guitar I reckon..then slowly build towards the end...

nice to have you back my friend :) :) :)
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: delb0y on August 03, 2017, 08:27:01 AM
Great to have you back, Monty.

I love the lyrics and the theme, there's some lovely poetic imagery. The melody and chords are nicely done, a few nice little choices of chord and melody in there. A fine song.

I didn't really enjoy the arrangement, if I'm honest. The guitar sounded a little harsh to me and there was way too much going on for me a lot of the time. The lyrics suggest a much more melancholy and stripped down feel to me. But that's all arrangement stuff, not song stuff. There's a cracking song here.

Cheers
Derek
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: PaulAds on August 03, 2017, 11:34:53 AM
This was a game of two halves for me...

I read the lyrics yesterday and thought they were really great...but I didn't think the music took them anywhere. It just seemed to be meandering really, without any direction.

Very nicely done, though...and everything sounds great, it just kind of washed over me, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Neil C on August 03, 2017, 12:05:30 PM
Alan,
Great to have you back. Heard this quiet a few times from your LP so heard to be too objective.
I too heard a juxtaposition of sharp lyrical imagery set against a wistful musical background but thats fine by me. It ebbs and flows between the verses which feel more observational and the choruses where the vocals sound more personal.
Nice one.
 :)
Neil
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Cazrolina on August 04, 2017, 12:33:27 AM
I loved this. Excellent and interesting arrangement and lyrics. And the vocal only section was indeed powerful. Could be a bit more gruff or extra reverb or harmonies or something there to make it stand out even more. And more contrast in the drums throughout maybe, but that's just me.
 A really fabulous listen. Going for another... :)
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Paulski on August 04, 2017, 01:16:36 AM
Hi Alan

Nice to hear sth from you - it's been too long man!
Evocative lyrics - good job there.
Cool chord progressions - unexpected melodic twists esp on the harp work.
Of course you can predict I'm going to mention length, so I won't  ;D

Think you could delay the bass until the drums come in and really get epic at the end with strings et al, oh and you need a greek chorus too while you're at it  ;D

Good song!
Paul
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Yodasdad on August 04, 2017, 11:17:22 AM
Nice work monty.

I was nearly scared of by seeing 6:24 but although it did feel long it didn't feel that long.

I love the overall feel of this and there were lots of little twists and chromatiscisms to keep things interesting.

The blend of instruments was well thought out,,particularly liked the harmonica and organ.

One thing I have to mention that didn't quite work for me was the quite staccato nature of some of the instruments, particularly the bass and at times the organ. It felt like it was being played by someone who was learning to play this instrument and needed to cut notes short in order to get to the next one in time. if this is the case I apologise for mentioning it but I had to as I think a more legato feel would fit the song better.

Just my thoughts but overall a very nice track.

Yodasdad
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra on August 07, 2017, 11:38:49 AM
Hi Monty

I like the song. Great lyric.
It isn't too long. I let my songs dictate their own length and feel that you've done the same here. I like the structure; each part has its place and plays its role. How could it be different?

The E to Em gives character to the chorus - I like the whole chorus progression in fact.

Then there's the arrangement or more specifically the sounds. It's quite ambitious.
I think the guitars are ok. The harmonica is the perfect sound for the song but the key not being quite right jars for me a bit. More reverb on that would be good too.
Not keen on the drums.
The organ is OK but, as YD says, the part could be better - I understand it isn't your instrument. It's also not sitting in there nicely i don't think.

The verse before the dropout - the last verse in fact, the poignant death one - is where you could begin to come down I think in preparation for the dropout. This is where a better drum track might have helped to create some dynamic changes.

As PJ says I wouldn't drop everything out but the vocal. The contrast is too harsh I think...maybe keep your acoustic going there.

Atmosphere is at its best during the final section with the reverby dobro/guitar whatever it is and the mournful harp coming in.

Somehow I was getting the Doors....maybe some of the feel and those changes to minor. Has the feel of some of their stuff - no, not just because of the organ - and other 60s bands of the era...don't know who.

Anyway I like the song. I'd love to be able to arrange something for this as I hear it. If that covers competition ever comes off I'd have a crack at this...with your permission of course!

Please don't forget to vote in the July song of the month competition.

http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13576.0 (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13576.0)

That goes for anybody who might be reading this. Your votes are needed!
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Buc McMaster on August 08, 2017, 02:07:34 PM
Spooky.  Quite vague lyrically.....can't get a handle on what it is you're trying to convey here.....but I suspect that might be your intent.
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Jamie on August 08, 2017, 02:34:07 PM
Hi, enjoyed your usual evocative lyrics! Some nice sounds along the way with imaginative arrangements. I did feel that because of the length of the song the build could have been more delicate and maybe held back some of the instruments and lines till later, it all came in too quick. I liked the idea of the harmonica that always works well with your stuff, but some of the notes were, to put it delicately ,out of the key.
Nicely sung as ever!
Cheers
Jamie
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: TheButcher on August 10, 2017, 07:02:08 AM
Hi Alan;

To be honest; I don't think it s your best song. It s still pretty good; but you ve set the standards high :)

The phrasing of the lyrics are very repetitive; i m waiting for the development.

Same with instrumentation; once the drums kick in, it pretty much stays that way; plus, the drums sound really weak here.

I somehow like the parts best, when it s just guitar and vocal;

as i said; you always make great music; but many of your other songs are stronger; to me :)

hope it s ok to say that. I know how we love our songs, so....

all the best

B.
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: montydog on August 11, 2017, 02:45:35 PM

Thank you to everyone who provided me with feedback on this. Some very useful advice with respect to arrangement, instrumentation and song length. I recorded this quite a while ago and there are several things I would change if I recorded it now - the wisdom of perspective.

Nice tone on the acoustic, and the bass sounds good too, some interesting lines in the lyrics, I thought it was a bit too long though, it may have worked better if it was shorter, good track though

Mikey

Thanks - I think you're right about the length. Pleased that you liked the bass - I find it difficult to mix that properly and I'm very much a novice player.

I like the message in this a lot! I'm taken by several of the phrases..."Sun is on the whiskered wheat", Dark ashes on the wind", "Running on the wrong track", "Caught in the chromium shine"...there's more. On different journeys through the song, different parts stand out.

There are a few bits I might do differently, but I'm not sure it would make them better...one is "There's a devil chasing you", where I might make do with "A devil's chasing you". A couple things like that. And I would probably use "cleaner" diction (eg, a clear "that you" instead of "thatchew").

This is great as poetry, in my opinion. Setting it to music adds to the ambiance. I enjoyed the production, also.

Vicki


Thanks Vicki. I'm pleased that you liked the lyrics; it's what I work hardest at the whole process of writing and recording.

Hi Alan and welcome back. I always read the lyrics before listening to the music and can empathise with you. Lovely acoustic sound and vocals sounding very good. Of course a song of over six minutes  is going to get some crit. I enjoyed it but maybe the vocal breakdown section could have been shorter / enhanced by solo instrument. Overall a very good song


Thanks for the positive comments. It's good to be back!
Yo Alan,mighty good to see you back.  :)

Captivating and powerful lyrics on this one.

It has a desolate,melancholy feel which compliments the dark prose perfectly.

I'm seeing some of the desert scenes in Breaking Bad with Walt and Jessie brewing meth in their camper van. That's the kind of places the song takes me. I found it wears it's long black,dusty coat of 6 minutes very well.

Love the guitar in the closing stages. Mood music For sure.  8)


Thanks Skub. It's gratifying that you tapped into the intended feel of the song and that it brought up those images for you. That's what it's all about.
I always write these as I listen
I'm digging the intro on acoustic guitar. And the bass is giving me John Paul Jones Vibes. The singings got that 70s vibe and I'm digging it. The layering is very very good. I'm just seein this as a 6 minute song and we already have harmonica, drums electric, acoustic guitar, and organ and bass a minute and a half in . Maybe slow with the layering. Let it build.
Your singing is giving me Johnny Cash vibes and I'm digging it. However the harmonica solo seems a bit out of key at times. Is that on purpose?
I like the lyrics and the lines like "Finding shelter from the shade really stick out." And when you sing and the instruments drop out, it's very powerful, would you consider having your voice get a bit more gruff there. Sing a bit louder.
The guitar solo is very minimalist and I dig it. It fits the song. Is that done on a dobro? I feel like you should have kept acoustic guitar through the fade out.

Good song man
It has all the right vibes, just some minor things in composition could be improved on a bit for the next song you write but thats always the case.
Good work

Thanks for that detailed and useful review - some very good points particularly about the length and arrangement. The harmonica is deliberately out - I kept the note into the next chord as it just sounded right for the mood of the song. The guitar solo at the end is actually played on a lap steel with plenty of delay.

Great to have you back, Monty.

I love the lyrics and the theme, there's some lovely poetic imagery. The melody and chords are nicely done, a few nice little choices of chord and melody in there. A fine song.

I didn't really enjoy the arrangement, if I'm honest. The guitar sounded a little harsh to me and there was way too much going on for me a lot of the time. The lyrics suggest a much more melancholy and stripped down feel to me. But that's all arrangement stuff, not song stuff. There's a cracking song here.

Cheers
Derek


Thanks Derek - I'm pleased you liked the song and you definately have a point about the arrangement.

This was a game of two halves for me...

I read the lyrics yesterday and thought they were really great...but I didn't think the music took them anywhere. It just seemed to be meandering really, without any direction.

Very nicely done, though...and everything sounds great, it just kind of washed over me, I'm afraid.

No problem.Paul. Some songs just don't sit well with the listener. Can't win them all.

Alan,
Great to have you back. Heard this quiet a few times from your LP so heard to be too objective.
I too heard a juxtaposition of sharp lyrical imagery set against a wistful musical background but thats fine by me. It ebbs and flows between the verses which feel more observational and the choruses where the vocals sound more personal.
Nice one.
 :)
Neil


Hi Neil, I'm pleased you liked the song and the blend of the lyrics with the music. This is one of your greatest strengths.

I loved this. Excellent and interesting arrangement and lyrics. And the vocal only section was indeed powerful. Could be a bit more gruff or extra reverb or harmonies or something there to make it stand out even more. And more contrast in the drums throughout maybe, but that's just me.
 A really fabulous listen. Going for another... :)

Thanks for the review - and you liked the arrangement which means it worked for someone!

Hi Alan

Nice to hear sth from you - it's been too long man!
Evocative lyrics - good job there.
Cool chord progressions - unexpected melodic twists esp on the harp work.
Of course you can predict I'm going to mention length, so I won't  ;D

Think you could delay the bass until the drums come in and really get epic at the end with strings et al, oh and you need a greek chorus too while you're at it  ;D

Good song!
Paul


Hi Paul and thanks for the kind words. You are right about the arrangement and length as others have mentioned.
Nice work monty.

I was nearly scared of by seeing 6:24 but although it did feel long it didn't feel that long.

I love the overall feel of this and there were lots of little twists and chromatiscisms to keep things interesting.

The blend of instruments was well thought out,,particularly liked the harmonica and organ.

One thing I have to mention that didn't quite work for me was the quite staccato nature of some of the instruments, particularly the bass and at times the organ. It felt like it was being played by someone who was learning to play this instrument and needed to cut notes short in order to get to the next one in time. if this is the case I apologise for mentioning it but I had to as I think a more legato feel would fit the song better.

Just my thoughts but overall a very nice track.

Yodasdad

Thanks for the kind words - pleased that you liked the song. I'm a novice on the bass and keyboards so that explains the staccato issue you mentioned - busted!

Hi Monty

I like the song. Great lyric.
It isn't too long. I let my songs dictate their own length and feel that you've done the same here. I like the structure; each part has its place and plays its role. How could it be different?

The E to Em gives character to the chorus - I like the whole chorus progression in fact.

Then there's the arrangement or more specifically the sounds. It's quite ambitious.
I think the guitars are ok. The harmonica is the perfect sound for the song but the key not being quite right jars for me a bit. More reverb on that would be good too.
Not keen on the drums.
The organ is OK but, as YD says, the part could be better - I understand it isn't your instrument. It's also not sitting in there nicely i don't think.

The verse before the dropout - the last verse in fact, the poignant death one - is where you could begin to come down I think in preparation for the dropout. This is where a better drum track might have helped to create some dynamic changes.

As PJ says I wouldn't drop everything out but the vocal. The contrast is too harsh I think...maybe keep your acoustic going there.

Atmosphere is at its best during the final section with the reverby dobro/guitar whatever it is and the mournful harp coming in.

Somehow I was getting the Doors....maybe some of the feel and those changes to minor. Has the feel of some of their stuff - no, not just because of the organ - and other 60s bands of the era...don't know who.

Anyway I like the song. I'd love to be able to arrange something for this as I hear it. If that covers competition ever comes off I'd have a crack at this...with your permission of course!

Please don't forget to vote in the July song of the month competition.

http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13576.0 (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13576.0)

That goes for anybody who might be reading this. Your votes are needed!


I'd be very happy for you to cover the song - I'm flattered. Thank you so much for the detailed review. This is incredibly helpful to me and you make some very valid comments.

Spooky.  Quite vague lyrically.....can't get a handle on what it is you're trying to convey here.....but I suspect that might be your intent.

The song starts with someone who is financially self made and ambitious returning home after the death of a loved one and reflecting on what is important at the end of the day - people or money.

Hi, enjoyed your usual evocative lyrics! Some nice sounds along the way with imaginative arrangements. I did feel that because of the length of the song the build could have been more delicate and maybe held back some of the instruments and lines till later, it all came in too quick. I liked the idea of the harmonica that always works well with your stuff, but some of the notes were, to put it delicately ,out of the key.
Nicely sung as ever!
Cheers
Jamie

Thanks Jamie - you reinforce what others have said about the arrangement. The harmonica was deliberately left like that as I thought it lent something to the song.

Hi Alan;

To be honest; I don't think it s your best song. It s still pretty good; but you ve set the standards high :)

The phrasing of the lyrics are very repetitive; i m waiting for the development.

Same with instrumentation; once the drums kick in, it pretty much stays that way; plus, the drums sound really weak here.

I somehow like the parts best, when it s just guitar and vocal;

as i said; you always make great music; but many of your other songs are stronger; to me :)

hope it s ok to say that. I know how we love our songs, so....

all the best

B.

Hi Butcher. It's absolutely fine to not think the song is my best and to tell me. I'd much rather that that someone not commenting for fear of causing offence. You make some fair points - the drums could be a lot better but they are way down my list of priorities when arranging a song. I'm generally sick to death of the song by the time I get round to sorting them out!

Thanks once again to everyone who commented. it is very much appreciated.

All the best

Alan
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Oldbutyet on August 12, 2017, 10:26:14 PM
Hi Alan

Hope you don't mine my honesty here but for your wonderful vocal style you need lyrics that flows easily to get the attention of audience not songwriters, remember one thing all singer songwriters starts of in a bar but this for me just doesn't flow well together, i could say more but if i may suggest check out Charlie Landsborough what colour is the wind and forget about the cheesy and cliche, next song go with the vocal flow of lyrics.   8)

Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: montydog on August 12, 2017, 11:29:21 PM
Hi Alan

Hope you don't mine my honesty here but for your wonderful vocal style you need lyrics that flows easily to get the attention of audience not songwriters, remember one thing all singer songwriters starts of in a bar but this for me just doesn't flow well together, i could say more but if i may suggest check out Charlie Landsborough what colour is the wind and forget about the cheesy and cliche, next song go with the vocal flow of lyrics.   8)



OK, I've listened to Mr Lansborough.......

To be frank, this is so far off what I'm aiming at that it's not true. If this is what you're comparing me to I am very disappointed Cliche city Arizona. Daniel O'Donnell anyone?

M
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Oldbutyet on August 13, 2017, 12:06:00 AM
Hi Alan

Hope you don't mine my honesty here but for your wonderful vocal style you need lyrics that flows easily to get the attention of audience not songwriters, remember one thing all singer songwriters starts of in a bar but this for me just doesn't flow well together, i could say more but if i may suggest check out Charlie Landsborough what colour is the wind and forget about the cheesy and cliche, next song go with the vocal flow of lyrics.   8)



OK, I've listened to Mr Lansborough.......

To be frank, this is so far off what I'm aiming at that it's not true. If this is what you're comparing me to I am very disappointed Cliche city Arizona. Daniel O'Donnell anyone?

M

Interesting M

Mr Lansborough and Daniel O'Donnell came up through the grass roots as for the Cliche city Arizona, all your words.

As I said "Hope you don't mine my honesty here" but give it a few days maybe a few weeks   8)

Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: montydog on August 13, 2017, 01:46:38 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you. You are entitled to your opinion, obviously but maybe you should read what others on here have said about the lyrics of this song. I don't think your opinion chimes with the majority. That doesn't make you wrong but maybe you should listen a little more carefully. I've been on this forum for 5 years and I've posted over 50 songs. Nobody has ever described my lyrics as cliched.

I take a great deal of time and trouble to write good lyrics and if you look back over the comments on my songwriting over the years you will see that one of the over riding features is praise for the quality of my lyrics.

I'm passionate about this as you may have gathered.

All the best to you.

M
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Oldbutyet on August 13, 2017, 02:18:11 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you. You are entitled to your opinion, obviously but maybe you should read what others on here have said about the lyrics of this song. I don't think your opinion chimes with the majority. That doesn't make you wrong but maybe you should listen a little more carefully.

All the best to you.

M

What kind of honesty are you looking for  ???
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: montydog on August 13, 2017, 02:20:40 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you. You are entitled to your opinion, obviously but maybe you should read what others on here have said about the lyrics of this song. I don't think your opinion chimes with the majority. That doesn't make you wrong but maybe you should listen a little more carefully.

All the best to you.

M

What kind of honesty are you looking for  ???

See above.
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Oldbutyet on August 13, 2017, 02:29:27 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with you. You are entitled to your opinion, obviously but maybe you should read what others on here have said about the lyrics of this song. I don't think your opinion chimes with the majority. That doesn't make you wrong but maybe you should listen a little more carefully.

All the best to you.

M

What kind of honesty are you looking for  ???

See above.

Hey you old friend you still looking above   ;D   ;D
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: montydog on August 13, 2017, 03:11:48 AM
Well argued.  :-)
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Oldbutyet on August 13, 2017, 03:30:56 AM
Well argued.  :-)

Hopefully with honesty   8)
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Oldbutyet on August 13, 2017, 09:10:47 AM
Hi Alan

Hope you don't mine my honesty here but for your wonderful vocal style you need lyrics that flows easily to get the attention of audience not songwriters, remember one thing all singer songwriters starts of in a bar but this for me just doesn't flow well together, i could say more but if i may suggest check out Charlie Landsborough what colour is the wind and forget about the cheesy and cliche, next song go with the vocal flow of lyrics.   8)



Haha  ;D  i can see now why the cheesy and cliche part rattle your cage as they say, i wasn't on about your lyrics in fact its the other way round just like audience and songwriters, theres nothing wrong with singing cheesy and cliche lyrics once the vocals are right and as i said in this song from what im hearing (i know im alone) nothing flows right together, ill leave the rest for you and your vocals to figure out for yourselves, few days maybe a few weeks or never  ;D   ;D
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: TheButcher on August 13, 2017, 09:37:47 AM
Quote
the drums could be a lot better but they are way down my list of priorities when arranging a song. I'm generally sick to death of the song by the time I get round to sorting them out!


i had and have the same problems :)

But the audience hears the song and all it s elements.
People encouraged me to improve on my weaknesses, cause they re part of the song too, and we should try to make the best song possible.

Your music NEEDS a live feel. it needs a real drummer; you make great music; maybe you find some folks online or in real life who can do that for you.

It s what i do with my latest song (which you reviewed so nicely :)).

I handed the mix over to another guy, and he knew a guy who plays drums, and he knew a guy who plays bass and so; one thing came to another...and i hope it serves the song (i can now concentrate on vocals) Blabla....don t wanna bother with my stories.

Your songwriting is great and it deserves better production :)

B
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Boydie on August 13, 2017, 10:53:28 AM
Quote
Your music NEEDS a live feel. it needs a real drummer; you make great music; maybe you find some folks online or in real life who can do that for you.

I just wanted to say that I completely agree about going for a "live feel" but I disagree that the only way to achieve this is with a real drummer

I recently programmed some drums for a track that required a live feel for an LA based a&r company and got complimented on the "live drums"

If resources were no object I would consider a live drummer but I do think the technology is now there to produce convincing "live drums" with VSTs and loops (which are live drums in many cases anyway)

Quote
the drums could be a lot better but they are way down my list of priorities when arranging a song. I'm generally sick to death of the song by the time I get round to sorting them out!

I guess that is the value of having someone else "produce" and mix your songs - I think there is a lot of value in separating the songwriting (and perhaps the recording process) from the production/mixing process - a producer gives a set of fresh ears and can concentrate on the minute details to support the song as the overall song vibe has been taken care of by the writer
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: TheButcher on August 13, 2017, 06:40:44 PM
Absolutely agree.
I m just getting into midi drums, bought the extra drummer2.
Can you send me a link to that song of yours?@boydie

Txt

B
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: IronKnee on August 15, 2017, 07:49:08 AM
Hi Monty.....well, I certainly like this. Has that ELP sound. Very well done and the singing is really good. Love the sound to your voice....nice tone!
Great lyrics and a wonderful soundtrack.
Kudos!!
                 -Tom
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Boydie on August 16, 2017, 06:30:39 PM
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Can you send me a link to that song of yours?@boydie

Done  ;D
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: montydog on August 17, 2017, 01:19:22 AM
My thread has been hijacked :(

If it's going to happen, at least it's by people who are real musicians. Perhaps the magic might rub off.

M
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: Boydie on August 17, 2017, 08:26:23 AM
Lol - sorry ALAN  :-*

I do think the whole MIDI drums thing is relevant to your song though as I truly believe that we have now reached the technological point where a "real drummer" is not longer required to provide "real drums"

Whether this is a good thing or not I am not saying (but it is good for me  ;D)
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: adamfarr on August 22, 2017, 07:29:23 PM
Hi Alan - loved the lyrics here, just my cup of well crafted tea, with just enough mystery but plenty of rewards for listening.

There's a wistfulness to the first part and I'd agree with some of the comments that a different build could help bring home the message  - but at heart this is really a folk style song and maybe shouldn't  try to be too epic. Good to see you round here anyhow.
Title: Re: Silver & Gold
Post by: digger72 on August 24, 2017, 07:26:54 PM
Hi Monty,

An epic way to return. Not sure who has been absent longer - me or you.

I like the ebbs and flows within the music - seems natural rather than forced - just for the sake of a build, etc.
The overall feel has a slightly dark tinge which appeals to me.
Vocals strong as ever.


Digger