The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Bar => Topic started by: tina m on May 05, 2017, 10:37:37 PM
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It was pointed out to me today that there are 4199 members of this forum!
but as the huge majority of people whos name you see down the bottom as the latest member never ever post, it doesnt mean much realy,
but nevertheless (is that realy one word?) loads of people join here, are active for a bit, & then disappear off the face of the earth
So it seems songwriting is only any good as a temporary hobby, most grow out of it & move on to pole dancing & gardening & disappearing
which makes me feel a bit silly & childish, maybe I should have grown out of it by now, after all I must be one of the longest registered members here (tho I know Ive left a few times)
Anyway to get to another point: In all the time ive been here since 2011 I dont think this forum has grown...yes the number of registered members has but Im talking about the nucleus of committed people here that keep it going (I dont mean the mods) I mean the ever changing core who are here most days doing the reviewing & posting... it seems to stay at about 14 all the time...isnt that weird??
Now heres the big question: has anyone gone on from here to have major success?
I need to know urgently as Ive bought a pole for my living room ;D
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Well I'm up for packing in songwriting and just spending some time in your living room ;)
I don't have much paper money as I'm a poor, soon to be ex-songwriter but I can throw pennies at you.
I think the answers in your question, where did you go when you left for a while?
I've come and gone and come again. Usually when I'm not here I'm not songwriting, work gets in the way or I need a little break from the addictiveness of the forum actually getting in the way of the writing.
The way I see it, of all, the things you could spend your time doing, songwriting's a pretty worthwhile one.
It is strange that the hardcore is so low though with such a high membership.
Maybe 14 people posting songs is about the limit of what people can cope with and there is a kind of subconscious regulation around thus saturation point.
Who knows.
I'm off to raid my piggy bank anyway.
See you soon.
Yodasdad
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Well tbh every time I left, I left bcos I was angry at someone or some people, so Id do songwriting somewhere else... but I hardly ever came across any people from here....
But if you wait long enough every body here youre angry with disappears ...so you can come back & start enjoying it again :)
Thank you ever so much for your kind offers of giving me money towards my new curtain pole ...Oh you didnt think it was one of those upright ones did you!! ;D
Isnt there something called 'somebodys' number which is the biggest number of people you can have in a community before it all goes totally wrong & breaks apart?
Its like theres one for a songwriter forum & its 14!
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Well tbh every time I left, I left bcos I was angry at someone or some people, so Id do songwriting somewhere else... but I hardly ever came across any people from here....
But if you wait long enough every body here youre angry with disappears ...so you can come back & start enjoying it again :)
Thank you ever so much for your kind offers of giving me money towards my new curtain pole ...Oh you didnt think it was one of those upright ones did you!! ;D
Isnt there something called 'somebodys' number which is the biggest number of people you can have in a community before it all goes totally wrong & breaks apart?
Its like theres one for a songwriter forum & its 14!
When I got here, there was a committed core of "listeners/reviewers." As a newbie, I was so thrilled, that I joined this committed core. Some of the committed core left (not necessarily left the forum, but put their musical energy elsewhere and stopped being such "committed listeners/reviewers."
As some dropped off, some new ones replaced them. I remember Paulski's arrival, and he kind of took over from me as the "excited to review newbie." Then a few others dropped off, and (among others) Caliomoka arrived to take up the "excited to review newbie" role.
I think it is healthy and appropriate for the "committed core" to "cycle" and to ebb and flow. I don't review nearly as much as I used to. I've gotten so much value from this forum, that my needs have changed. I focus differently now. I neither post as much, nor review as much.
Not because I'm disappointed, but because I've grown through this experience to the point that I can find more value in other endeavors. But I will always be a fan of, and a member of this forum. If I disappear for good, you can surmise that I have died. I love this place, but I take value from it in a different way than I used to.
I suspect that a lot of people go through that process. I don't think the forum needs to "grow." Just to "maintain" that "committed core."
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Errrr, no I just appreciate a good curtain pole that's all. :-\
Well actually you did refer to pole dancing and then you said you'd bought a pole, I just thought.... ???
Oh man, okay, yeah, you got me. Look, I've got £1.37 in 1's and 2's and there's an 87p price match promise on a Tesco receipt I can throw in too, to sweeten the deal.
I'll even hold the pole if you need me to as well, just to help you out.
What you sayin then?
Yodasdad
P.s curtains are so yesterday anyway, blinds are what you want.
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I often see familiar / older names pop up in the "users online" box but they don't post anything
I do suspect that some have found success in varying degrees (I can think of at lesser 3 or 4 that spring to mind)
I do think that those looking for commercial success "move on" as there is a feeling from some that this isn't "proper" songwriting
This is definitely something I would like to address at some point but I do not particularly want to "segment" the forum in a formal way
It can be frustrating when someone writing "commercially" gets a bad review from a more "purist" songwriter- in exactly the same way a "purist" songwriter writes a song "from the heart" just for the art, to then get a review saying the song doesn't work in a commercial way
Neither is write or wrong but I have witnessed occasions where I can sense the original writer feels the reviews are "unfair" because they have a different objective
We all have different goals, and some write for a variety of goals all at once, so the "value" of the forum varies
IMHO whatever stage/level you are at with your songwriting/production then ANY feedback is useful - the key it identifying the feedback you want to take on board and the feedback you can ignore
The other big question I regularly wrestle with is - do we actually WANT loads of new members?
I could very easily put together a digital marketing campaign and attract loads of new members but I am not sure this would be a good thing at the moment
I do have plans to expand the "remit" of the forum in the future to be able to accommodate an influx of members and develop different "pathways" for different songwriting objectives (whilst always maintaining the core element of the forum) - but I want to do this VERY slowly so as to not upset the existing balance
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I think a lot of people who are into songwriting have a tendency to seek out songwriter forums, sign up for them and, in some cases, forget they did so. I did that right here, in fact. I had totally forgotten I was already a member when I "discovered" this forum in December 2015.
...I remember Paulski's arrival, and he kind of took over from me as the "excited to review newbie." Then a few others dropped off, and (among others) Caliamoko arrived to take up the "excited to review newbie" role.
I really enjoy reviewing and probably get too carried away with my remarks sometimes. I wish I could do more; I've had to scale way back because of my shortage of bandwidth. :( Right now, in fact, should be about noon May 10th, according to how much bandwidth we've used so far this month. When we run out of bandwidth, we get throttled. While throttled, most email (if no attachments) will come in and usually go out, but browsing is nearly impossible. Web pages, these days, have a tendency to be very bandwidth heavy.
Anyway, what I started out to say is, even if I had unlimited bandwidth, I would be overwhelmed by the number of posts available for reviewing. I have the urge to tackle them all, which, of course, would leave me no time to eat, sleep, or write. So I look for posts that have few reviews so far. I also try to remember to choose songs from the WIP board, since I've heard several times they don't get as many reviews. I also stay away from anything on YouTube, since videos use more bandwidth than sound files. And, if I'm somewhere with free wifi, I'll download as many songs as I can (not all are downloadable, of course). Basically, I feel like my number of reviews has dropped off sharply; I'm not doing as many as I'd like.
I think the number of our members is truly impressive, but I think we can only handle so much activity. I've spent some time in a forum that had more than 10,000 members (can't remember how many more and can't remember the forum). I think it was divided up into areas of interest. I'm not sure I want to limit myself to just one genre family, though. Maybe if the divisions were broad enough.
Enough rambling....
Vicki
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Aside from the diehard few,I think any forum membership has a shelf life usually defined by flagging interest and the need for pastures new. You'll always see folk coming and going as life events dictate and otherwise make demands on an individual's time. If you get a couple of years of a member consistently posting,I reckon that's the tail off point for many.
There is also the unfortunate reality that some members just run out of material,sometimes it's a dry spell,sometimes it's over. When I see someone posting a back catalogue from years ago,I tend to think there has been nothing new since then. How often can a member do that without wearing out their welcome?
Using myself as an example,I did no writing at all for the guts of 20 years and channeled my energy into,in no particular order,drinking like a fish,motorcycles,playing live in a band and frenetically energetic sex sessions,albeit often solo,but I had to slow down,it was making me walk funny. :)
If the forum has maintained a changing nucleus of active members,even if the number seems relatively small,then surely that's a sign of good health? As Boydie mentioned,it would be a very different place if we had hundreds of posts every day and whether that would be beneficial to what we regard as a community,is in question.
I don't know which members have achieved any level of success,I suppose it depends on how you define 'success'. I know a few,who seldom post now, have their projects running,which must be described as successful? Speaking personally,I don't put any work into chasing publishers or hawking my wares,but I'm always glad for those who take a step toward their own dream by gaining some recognition for their work. It would be a bit mean spirited not to be delighted for them.
The sun has been shining here all week and I haven't even turned on my Mac to do any music stuff,I've been biking,cutting trees and generally doing outside stuff. I'm loving waking up every morning to a blue sky,because I know it won't last.
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f399/phastasfuk/IMG_16552.jpg) (http://s51.photobucket.com/user/phastasfuk/media/IMG_16552.jpg.html)
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To contribute, particularly to this forum in a worthwhile way takes up a huge amount of time. New songs are posted by the dozen, the quality is high in most cases and they deserved to be heard more than once, and reviewed. I started on this path a few months ago, tried to keep up with it all, but it became overwhelming and I have given up.
I honestly think I would need to spend two hours a day on here to keep up and that's just not possible, or what I want to do with my life to be honest!
I have benefited hugely from feedback on my own songs and I believe it has helped me become a better songwriter, mixer, and producer. I'm very grateful for that because this is my passion! I have also, genuinely enjoyed some great songs by a goodly number of members...sometimes this has left me slightly depressed that I'll never be that good 😊, but hey! great songs and performances, freely given for our listening pleasure.
So, like many others it seems, I will dip in and out from time to time, listen, review and post songs in spurts now and again. Best I can manage.
Also, FWIW, I agree that the last thing the forum needs is countless more members, as it will be even more impossible to keep up!
Finally, I am hugely grateful for all the advice, not just on songwriting which many give here feeely. It is a wonderful, positive place.
All the best.
Bill
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Great point Tina. The other 4190 members are currently building me a a huge stage set for my next world tour. Honestly, It's all such a load of bollocks seriously. Tallented songwriters like you and many guys on here should be dominating the publics listening habits but Alas its 2017 and you don't need to think anymore, the media just tells you . I have given up listening to any radio bollocks apart from Marc Riley on r6. Keep going mannnn :)
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Hi Everybody,
And great topic Tina...
I can identify with a lot of what's been said already and with some of Bill and John's points in particular.
in addition I can honestly say that being a member of this forum has been a hugely positive experience for me and whilst life does get in the way, I hope to stick around here for as long I feel I am contributing with submissions and reviews. That said however maybe its not ALL about quantity I could post more songs but they would probably be rubbish and I could review everything but the reviews would lose validity because I wouldn't be listening as carefully as I do if I'm going to commit to posting (sometimes I have to listen three times or more before writing a review)
Anyway in answer to part of the original question I haven't personally had (or expect) any commercial success but I remain hopeful (however unlikely) hopeful in fact, in just the same way that I will stick around here (a lot more likely) and whilst I am on the subject of sticking around I hope all the other regulars do too...well at least those contributing to this thread! ;)
Peace all
Phil
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I can only speak from my own perspective. I wrote my first song around 1976 and my most recent one this year. So it's by no means a temporary hobby - irrespective of whether I'm posting here or not. I don't understand why taking absence from the site equates to giving up song-writing?
As for success - yep, I've had loads. Nothing financial, or contractual, and fame will never beckon. But I've played many of these songs at gigs and open mics and have plenty of positive comments - and even the occasional request for a song people have heard before. That's success to me.
As regards the active membership. Again, it's a personal view, but to me it's a very time-consuming forum thing to participate in properly and we all go through periods in life when spare time is plentiful and others when it is scarce. Depending on priorities we may, or may not, wish to allocate time to the forum. This morning I had two hours free. I spent it practicing the guitar as that is where my priority is at the moment. I'm sure when I get good enough on the guitar not to need to practice any more I'll be back properly ;)
The other thing, I do (still) find this place intimidating if one isn't in to production. I maintain that song-writing, arranging, and production are separate skills. I don't think I'll ever learn enough about the first to move onto the second, which leaves me feeling like the red-headed stepson, as a famous motorcycle racer once said.
Derek
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I can totally see where you're coming from regarding the production stuff Del and after all this is a songwriters forum. I like to think that there are guys on here that are coming from all sorts of different angles. I have loved many a song on here with relatively no production and then again detested songs with fab production, though sometimes the mix is just right and hits the spot. Personally I've embraced the product stuff as I find it fascinating although I'm crap at it :)
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There are a number of reasons why people disappear from the forum.
The first is fairly obvious but needs saying. Songwriting is a craft and a fairly difficult one at that. It is why there are so few successful songwriters. Writing one song is an achievement but 10 or 20 is difficult, especially if you have other things in your life. This forum encourages people to learn their trade in "public". Lennon and McCartney learnt it in Paul's living room in "private". We never heard the songs they thought were poor.
The second is down to the nature of our community and the need to review other people's work. Some people disappear because its all about them and very quickly discover nobody reviews their work. Other people feel that they don't have the skills to review other people's work, especially if it sounds so much better then their song.
The third is the difficulty of reviewing other people's songs. Reviewing is a craft. We have all heard songs which are poor but reviewing that song in a way that encourages the person to try again and to improve takes skill. Maybe we should be a little more pro-active in teaching people how to review. We do offer advice on all aspects of songwriting and production but very little on reviewing.
The fourth is disappointment and how you cope with it. You work really hard, think you have a good song and you get no or very little feedback. Some people just give up songwriting whilst others try and try again. Which comes back to point 1.
Finally it comes down to time. Today I've had a morning free. I've reviewed some lyrics, wrote a few things on Facebook and other forums and put down in words my answer to Tina's question. Tomorrow might be different, in fact it will be, its shopping day.
Keith
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I think most people seem drop in when they are actively writing and have a song to post, often coupled with doing a round of reviews at the same time. That's why "finished songs" is the daddy, I guess.
Far fewer seem to cover the whole site, unsurprisingly, as it's quite an undertaking.
By and large, if people aren't writing, they probably aren't visiting...there may be loads of dormant accounts, where folks haven't logged in for weeks, months or even years.
Probably just stating the obvious...
I have no idea if any member has had major success.
Mr Blobby had major success.
Maybe we can all learn something from that :P
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I joined this forum back in the very early days. I used to spend so much time here but have left and returned after several breaks for a number of reasons.
I once disappeared because the forum had some very ugly arguments. I wasn't involved in those arguments but also, I didn't want to spend my free time hanging around people who could argue for the most ridiculous reasons. I attempted to settle back into the community a few years ago. I was attracted back because essentially it is frequented mostly by some very decent people who are here because they share the common goal of songwriting. Unfortunately life presents challenges that's are far more urgent than contributing to any forum: children, work, career change, divorce , long distance relationship, engagement. So many life events that are of greater importance that demand attention. However, I must say that this forum is overall, very welcoming to those who return.
I have an enormous back catalogue of songs, both recorded and unrecorded. Every time I pick my guitar up or sit at my keyboard, new ideas, come to me almost instantly. There simply isn't enough hours in the day to write and produce (especially produce). Inevitably, I'm going to disappear so that I can write - that's my main hobby. I desperately want to write at the moment but I split myself between, work, looking after my children, visiting my fiancée who lives at the opposite side of the country to myself, study, applying for new jobs. Hopefully life will settle down when I eventually move to live with my fiancée. Increasingly, I find myself writing but not paying enough time producing. I have a half baked song in the WIP section because I haven't got the time to really go for it. I've reviewed one or two in that section and will continue to add reviews here and there but I'm back on the treadmill again, spreading my time thily amongst several commitments.
I may disappear again. That's not because I have anything against the forum or individuals. It's just life. Mostly, what I treasure about the forum, are the friendships that's I have made with a handful of people who I really connected with and who I feel share a similar outlook. These are people that I have produced songs for or collaborated with at various times when, I have been here.
That's my take on forum life and life in general.
Wicked Deeds
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I think it's all cool really, at least I've liked nearly everything that's happened to me here and the unsavoury bits I've just avoided.
It's not like a football club forum where everyone likes the reds and hates the blues (or viceversa) and never leaves. There's a lot of different tastes, experiences, emotions, demands and opportunities. I think the forum does a pretty good job of accommodating all that. We each can use it in whatever way suits us and it's totally fine. The views count far outnumbers the comments count - not sure whether that translates into listens but that's fine too. I've been away too, because I felt myself getting "glass half empty" with reviews and barren creatively. Was good to do something else and good to come back.
I signed up for another forum once but it was too big and felt hard to approach. I'd like to think things are different round here but would they stay that way with more growth? Not sure.
Before anyone else says it, of course if our delb0y liked the reds then he'd still love the blues as well...
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Interestingly of late The Bar has been my favourite section and where I've gained new insights and perspectives on a whole range of things relating to music, songwriting etc. I also find some of the threads about theory and production incredibly helpful and useful and have had the good fortune of getting some great articles on other sites kindly brought to my attention by others posting them on here.
I don't post for review as much as a) I'm primarily a lyricist and b) while I do value the feedback and opinion of others it's clear from general discussions that what I'm shooting for and what others see as a 'good' song are two completely different things. I've a few others that I bounce ideas and songs off for feedback, collabs etc outside the forum as they're more on the same 'wave length'. There's also the matter of keeping the powder 'dry' in terms of not plastering certain lyrics and co-writes over the net while irons are in the fire elsewhere I guess too. That's not to denigrate the quality of feedback on here nor for that matter the quality of songs; both are great.
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Mmmm interesting thread ;D
Where do they all go ? Who knows, but a 'core'
always seems to emerge..
I think what really makes this place work, and what
lifts it apart from other forums is that it is run by
the membership. The mods take a back seat, all
threads/competitions/collabs etc. are instigated by
the members. Every now and then a 'rogue element'
appears and the mods come out.
It's Organic man ;D ;D Seasons change, people come and go.
I know people who haven't been here for years, yet I'm
still in contact with them, and we chat about 'forum things',
although they aren't active here, they are still 'involved', and
will probably return one day.......I do remember posting
something about 'Forum Fatigue' many years ago, and I still
think that it holds true.....for me anyway ;D ;D
There's no doubt that the forum is many things to many people,
But the 'core'...the people that keep it going, are usually not
primarily focused on commercial success, but on the joy of
writing songs and making music. However we are all on the
same journey, whatever the motivation, and this is the best
place online to meet fellow travelers.....IMO ;D ;D
So, for me the answer to 'where have they all gone'...is that
they haven't gone, they're just resting.......or they're dead ;D
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That last line gave me proper lol.
Ta for that Bin. :D
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Hi
It is interesting to see how the coming and going of members is viewed by different members. I like the understanding ones, keeping an open mind and not judging too harshly.
When I joined, it was because of encouragement by someone else. I didn't look for a forum to join but songwriting has always been important to me and so started to contribute, mainly because I thought I had experiences to share which other like-minded people may have been interested in. I was once proud of what I felt I had achieved, including some small success and feeling I had learned quite a lot about the music-business. Then, life can suddenly throw more personal challenges our way, and that has happened to me recently. Priorities have to be our loved-ones and responsibilities have to be faced and taken on regardless of what we have previously been involved in. I have spent the last few months sitting in hospitals going through high levels of distress wondering what the next minute was going to throw at me and how i was going to cope. Through all this, I have been aware that I was involved with a music project which was impossible to carry on with but that didn't mean it was forgotten, nor the songwriters I feel are there, some who have been friendly with me and the knowledge they were there has probably helped me to get through.
Life is unpredictable, and so I hope everyone can understand that commitments like being a reviewer or contributor on a forum have to go on the back-burner at times. It doesn't mean people just go away for no reason. Some might, but dedicated songwriters don't and miss their craft but it can't be helped. To have a welcome back is the best.
These are my thoughts put together quickly. It is still good to be able to look in when possible.
Marrianna
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Yes, The Bar.
Some names show all the time. That is true.
I think some members are more generous than others
when it comes to reviewing. Like replying a lot.
I'm not one of them.
My hypothesis is that by the nature of this phenomena called
a forum a certain kind of people are more common to be members.
In this case there are many elements regarding music in general
involved. With this some unspoken consensus about desired content.
This might be a disturbing thought but I base it on empirical studies
of the Finished Songs posts. There is undoubtedly a whole lot of
singer/songwriter pop there.
The great thing is that since the forum is imo big there are lots of people
with lots of different opinions. I believe there are some members having an
on/off relationship with this forum only writing when they really like something. (Or post songs)
And then there are new ones who have kind of a crush but then the feelings fade.
I check the forum twice a day. Reply every two days or so. When I check the Finished
Songs I tend to prioritize a song with 5 reviews over one with 23.
I'm a part sweet and loving man and part an introverted cynic who thinks the only good
thing in life is whisky and neither of those qualities are a good basis for writing reviews
but I still hang around. :)
Martin
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Its not necessarily that songwriting is temporary hobby...perhaps even the reverse. Maybe doing music gets in the way of writing about it :D
Also like everyone else says, life can get in the way. I went on tour for a bit (as an engineer).
Also, if you do licence songs out, then you generally end up signing agreements on how you can use said song or recording (you cant, essentially). So that can always prohibit you from posting much...
Of course it doesnt explain all ~4K members. I imagine there is a lot of passing traffic. Same in all forums.
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Tinaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Hi blessedly wondrous n lovli guitar playin , song makin' Tina Hope yer still doin it ! ;D the songs,guitar,videos.... :)
Songwriting is being creative. Someones song is their baby Its their creation, their form of art.
Overall this is a fantastic forum & theres a wealth of info,tips & interactive guidence towards getting a project developed to its best potential. Sometimes someones song or lyrics will get hacked at & this kind of came from a few that were not credible in negatively criticising that particular song. these few would rarely listen to the song & start harping on about this & that....I think genuine critiscism is valid & helpful but the out of context comments unworthy & kind of off putting. C'est La vie.... Anyway thats probably why I disappeared along with feeling that the 'fun' element was lacking & it got a bit dull & kind of too formal. Sometimes just a 'few lines put wrongly can be discouraging. I think even if the song lacks, or is poor encourage & guide not every song is supadupa, not every film is a hit......... I usually say it like it is....but pause to think dont want to hurt anyones feelings & write accordingly. Anyway this is my personal 2 rupees worth.......... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Hug'zzzz Stylus :)
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I think that is a really good point STYLUS (welcome back by the way!)
There is a definite learning curve to joining this forum and becoming part of the forum
Learning how to give a constructive critique is a skill that develops over time and gets easier the more you review
However, a much harder skill to learn is knowing which critiques on your own songs to take on board or completely ignore
It can be difficult to appreciate that everyone has different tastes/opinions and you will rarely please everyone all of the time with your song - even though you probably start off wanting to
Once you come to peace with this it is much easier to take any criticism on the chin and decide whether to ignore it or not
I find the best thing to do is only post a finished song when you are already a good way through your next song so you always look forward and not backward - make your NEXT song your best one
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Totally agree! ' Constructive criticism' .
Its when its not within context i.e Oh the songs not bad.....Its ok but drummer needs to
eat less porridge mixed with beer...... I never used a drummer on my recordings.... ;D it was all me
most people do everything solo in their home recording environment (as I did) so looking at the
overall picture to see where one is going with the track is positive. i mean its not a bladdee full
on release or 20,000 grand backed up budget..? its a small production a demo thatz all :)
Most people who gave critique had experience,had done wonderful songs of merit..some the few were novices & not so good at what they had done...It was Unconstructive criticism from those that & their attempt to be Simon Cowell or whatever....
Think before you write.........! maybe some wrote just to poke? maybe some wrote to stir? who knows ? but yes... sensitivity - defence mode can overtake one at that moment. I began as a Guitarist 15 years gigging worldwide....Then became a DJ 10 years & Now last two years back on Live. I wear my heart on my sleeve & support by way of encouragment plus contructive criticism is good. optimism is benificial pessimism is non gaining.
R'gardzzz Stylus. :)
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I havnt posted in a long time.
Its not because I dont call in from time to time to see how things are going but creatively I am just burned out. I wrote an awful lot of songs ( or should that be a lot of awful songs? ) over a ten year period and I got to the point where I was asking myself what is the point of pouring all this energy into producing songs that no one ever listens to? That coupled with a band commitment which filled my musical thirst has had me step away completely from the writing gig.
Now, I am no longer with a band, just jamming with a few mates ( i hated gigging, too much like hard work) and finding it more enjoyable. Am thinking about music again but photography has filled my creative void so I am never likely to be as productive again as I once was.
On the forum side, i like many others have commented, tried too hard to review everything and take a full role and while this can work for a small time it inevitably leads to burnout or a sheer inability to keep up. I also got a disillusioned with posting as many seem to feel that a critique must contain critism or they havnt done their job. To me a critique always need to be handled in a careful maner. Often there are things in songs that I review that i dont personnaly like or would have done differently but I accept that the writer is looking for something else so I ignore that facit of the song. Its all about encouragement. If a song is an attempt from someone less proficient as I (not many fall into this category) I usually pick one thing that i can suggest to help them move forward and something good in the song that I can praise to keep it balanced and positive. We all have feelpings.
In answer to your post starter Tina, i am not back but I am not gone either. I am just somewhere inbetween.
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Allan, great post and sums up mainly what I think but then again I sometimes wake up in the moring and think eff it, If a song develops you guys are the first to hear it and I value forum critique highly. I was listening to Radio 6 this evening and my wife said "This band is shit " I had to agree but they were young and current. Overall I would say just do your own thang man cos nobody else has that
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I sometimes wonder whether, in a hundred and fifty years time, folks will look back on the 20th century and the first few decades of this one and ponder on how interesting it was that folks actually wrote songs. Then they'll open up their organic PC and click "Love Song" and "Bitter Sweet" and "Medium Tempo" and "Acoustic" and their machine will instantly create something for them. Over a period of time their personal machine will learn what works for them, what moves them, what triggers their heart to beat faster and the instant songs will get ever closer and closer to that person's perfection. They will be able to choose "In The Style Of" if they wish - but soon that function will slip into disuse as no-one will remember, or need to remember, actual songwriters. They will be able to choose "From the perspective of..." which will be akin to having a song written by another person - be it a poet, a soldier, a story-teller, a lover, a mother, a Peruvian monk...
It sounds horrible to us, and it will probably take a few generations to become the norm - but if your computer could create the perfect song/music for your mood and your personality at any given time why would you want or need anything else?
Folks will be able to share their favourites - but no-one will be interested, because their own songs will be so in tune with their own physical, mental, psychological needs at that precise moment that no-one else's auto-generated songs will deliver what their own songs can.
Come back to me in three hundred years and tell me I'm wrong!
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Sound like a song idea,right there Derek. :D
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Derek, I love your thought provoking post and guess that it may be very true. I immediately thought about the song written by Sting "Straight to My Heart" which, analyses the role that science might play, making a sugar-coated pill available that will make humans feel all of the emotions that we associate with love:
"In a hundred years from now,
they will attempt to tell us how,
a scientific means to bliss,
will supercede the human kiss.
A sub atomic chain,
will maybe galvanise the brain.
A biochemic trance
will eliminate romance
but why ever should I care
when there are arrows everywhere,
formed by lovers ancient art
that go 'straight to my heart"
Whilst it may be possible to perhaps have music written for moods and occasion by computers, perhaps a real songwriter who deals in the business of real emotion might be someone to truly admire. His/her songs, may not appeal to everyone but they may be like valuable antiques - the real deal, perhaps. I think that some people will always wish to express their deepest thoughts and emotions through art and hopefully music that they have written
Great post my friend!