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Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Works in Progress => Topic started by: CaliaMoko on March 24, 2017, 09:43:39 PM
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UPDATE: 31 MAY 2017
The latest version of WALL SEEKER:
Darkness pervades my reality.
Mischief is everywhere I see.
Blindness mistaken for vanishing light.
Winds of despair blowing clouds in my eyes.
Searching for wisdom, I stumble and fall.
I flee from the watchmen, run into a wall.
There's nowhere to go; I've run out of time.
A burst of frustration persuades me to climb.
Wall seeker, wall seeker, that's what I will be.
The wall conceals something that's precious to me.
I need to take action; I know what to do.
Climbing the wall is my only way through.
I'm over the wall now and to my surprise
I find what I'm seeking, laid bare before my eyes
My vision is clear and my purpose is clear
Knowledge has helped me to sublimate my fear.
Wall seeker, wall seeker, that's what I've become.
I've more walls to climb; there is never just one.
Guided by watchmen; each wall that I find
Inspires me to leave my old blindness behind
UPDATE: 20 APRIL 2017
All changes in BLUE
This is definitely a song in progress. So far it only has a double verse and a chorus. I'm uncertain about the melody, so I'm posting for feedback before I continue developing the song.
I think I've gotten the feel I want, but I wonder if I've gone too much all over the place with it. Should it be more consistent? For instance, what I have is basically two verses and a chorus. I call it a double verse, because there is one melody for the first verse and another one for the second, so kinda one big, long double verse. Would it be better if they were both the same melody or is this okay?
Of course, feel free to comment on anything. Except my guitar playing, which I already know is, shall we say, less than professional. But it's okay to tell me I should consider a different chord or chords wherever. Which reminds me--should the second line of the chorus lyric be changed? I could say "The wall's hiding something that's precious to me," which is sort of more accurate. "Covering" kinda sounds like it's right on top of whatever it's hiding, but the line with "hiding" felt more awkward to me. So opinions on that could be helpful.
Remember--be totally honest. I have very thick skin and actually enjoy getting strong criticism (as long as it isn't blatantly nasty).
Listen here: https://soundcloud.com/caliamoko/wall-seeker/s-y56TD
Lyric here:
WALL SEEKER
Verse 1
Darkness pervades my reality.
Mischief is ev'rywhere I see.
Blindness mistaken for vanishing light.
Winds of despair blowing clouds in my eyes.
Verse 2
Searching for wisdom, I stumble and fall.
I flee from the watchmen, run into a wall.
There's nowhere to go; I've run out of time.
A burst of frustration persuades me to climb.
Chorus
Wall seeker, wall seeker, that's what I will be.
The wall covers wall's hiding something that's precious to me.
I need to take action; I know what to do.
To face the wall squarely will serve me truemy purpose in view.
Climbing the wall is my only way through.
SOME IDEAS FOR VERSES 3 & 4
Obviously I can' use all of these ideas. My brain is over-stimulated and I need help narrowing down to the best ideas. I'm trying to get across the idea that I was wrong to run from the watchman. Instead, I should have analyzed the direction he was trying to chase me so I could find my wall (obstacle) quicker in order to find my purpose/beloved/desire faster. And the idea that I have now, thanks to the watchman, found my aforementioned purpose, etc.
Wonders revealed to my eyes
Over the wall, found what's on the other side
O wondrous watchman, you urged me to climb (helped me to find? led me to find? showed me the light?)
Helped me to conquer the [darkness? hindrance?] of my pride
Ecstacy right there in front of me
My heart's desire revealed for all to see
My eyes are open, my purpose now clear
Something has helped me to vanquish all my fear
Watchman, oh, you were so good to me
Guiding me where I need(ed?) to be
No longer hidden, the gift (goal?) of my life or: I have found the treasure of my life
Shining light eliminating the darkness of my night
No longer running away from my life
I've learned to turn and face the obstacles of life (not good, life rhyming with life)
I bless the watchman who guided my way
And I've pay away all my hatred and my ?? ??
Copyright 2017 Vicki Morrison
EDITED 27 MARCH 2017
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Hi Vicki!
You have a good start for a good song here.
When it comes to details my English is a bit rusty
I'll do my best to be as precise as I can.
Your song awakens the musicologist in me.
It has so many strong pictures in it. By that
I mean that it is clear what the lyrics say but
at the same time it refers to ones own imagination.
You have a folk song style an it really fits the theme
of the song. At the same time it is in contrast with
the more personal emotions you give.
The form A B C works well. I'd like to hear a repetition
of it with new lyrics for the verses A and B. The theme
of your song is so rich that I don't think eight more lines
of lyrics will be that hard to write. But I can't point in any
certain direction of where it could go.
Chords and such are imo as good as perfect. There are some
minor chords that give that little extra that keeps the listeners
attention. Good, good, good.
I look forward to hear the song in it's final form.
- Martin
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I like the the words and the melody, and the chord progression is right. This could be a really great folk song and I can hear the harmonies in my head. This is is going to be good; I can feel it in my bones. My only advice would be to keep it simple and acoustic.
Mike
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Thank you both, Martin & Mike. I agree about that last line...I already considered it my weakest, but at the time I couldn't think of anything else. However, this morning, I had another thought and have edited the lyric. See what you think?? I replaced "will serve me true" with "my purpose in view". I know I can't see what's on the other side of the wall yet, but my purpose at this point is to climb over the wall, and I can see that is my purpose when I face the wall.
I'll be riding today, so I'll take this song with me and see if I can come up with the other half.
Thanks again!
Vicki
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Hi Vicki,
I had to google "pervades" - what an awesome word though, will try and remember that one!
Aha I know you want harsh truths rather than praise, but damn these deserve no less than a shout-out!
"Blindness mistaken for vanishing light" is awfully good - and I enjoy the theme of diminished perception throughout and love how how you build into the chorus lyrically, providing clarity of the direction to the reader/listener.
There's nowhere to go; I've run out of time.
A burst of frustration persuades me to climb.
I do think looking from a purely lyrical standpoint "hides" is better than "covers" - as though "covers" is clear enough in meaning, a stronger adjective could be more powerful and suit the "displair"ing "frustration" a little better. ("Hides", "Conceals", "Blocks", "Thwarts", ect)
I'm not completely sold on the new or old last line if I'm being honest.
I've typed and deleted and retyped loads so I'm just going to ramble now see if I can articulate in some way or another... Given the first 3 lines of the chorus, it seems like they would have been created to support an original 4th line. Like the 4th line is the kick, and the 3 are a build-up to it (Like the setup for a joke). In reality it feels like you created the three lines first - then struggled to create a "punchline" at the end. I'd say your final line isn't a bad line, but considering the above needs to be one of your strongest and hard-hitting.
Here are some suggestions - I like the use of "purpose" by meaning (So "mission", "quest", "duty" could all work)but maybe re-word a little to add another verb in to create some more action as opposed to description?
"Take on this wall and see my purpose through"
"To face the wall squarely, Keeping my purpose true"
Just some thoughts.
Musically I can't really add as my ear's not great (chord progressions, notes ect) but it sounds good to me.
Hope this helps - I enjoyed diving in.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Hey Scott...very helpful! Combining your comments with the others produced some new ideas. For now I'm going with "The wall's hiding something". And I'm changing "my purpose..." to "climbing the wall is my only way through." Thanks!
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Hey
That's a really lovely song with some wonderful lyrics...the chords work well and the simplicity suits the lyrics.
In regard to the line "The wall covers.." I think covers works well but hides would work too...just a suggestions but maybe you could drop the 'that's' to make it 'Thr wall cover/hides something precious to me' as this give you more time to sit on the 'something' melodically (if that makes sense :))
Other words you could use (as already suggested) are conceals, obscures...and a little different you could use something like 'denies' or 'divides' (as in the wall divides something precious from me')
Suggestions only as what you have works and is lovely!
Good work. Darren :)
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My first thought (upon reading the lyric, but not yet having listened) was that the third verse should be a chorus that repeats.
I've changed my mind on that. But I do think it needs a chorus or a refrain that kind of "changes the flow" a little bit.
I have no real ideas for how, although I'm getting a bit of a sense that a refrain that precedes the verses instead of following them might work well with this song. There is a sense of "uniqueness" to your lyric that doing something unusual would accentuate.
Sorry to not be more help. If I think of something, I'll come back.
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@Darren and Verlon: Thanks for your feedback!
I have spent some time with all the feedback I've gotten so far and thinking about what I'm trying to say with the lyric and have edited the original post with a new update. I'm struggling with what words to use and have far too many at this point. I've overloaded my brain and hope I can get some reactions to the possible verses I've added (in blue) to the original post at the top (or bottom, if you organize your feed like I do).
I have NOT updated the recording in any way at this point. I don't plan to do that until I've [probably] settled on the rest of the words.
BTW, I know I haven't been doing as much feedback lately. I have good excuses: I keep over-using the bandwidth (seems to go faster every day), and I'm preparing for a two-hour performance on the 29th.
If you have anything in particular you'd like me to review, though, just let me know and I will do it.
Thanks!
Vicki
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Hi Vicki,
I do so love a challenge. In keeping with the almost fairytale like nature of the lyric, here's an idea for a 3rd verse that would progress the story. Might give you some ideas and a steer.
Mike
Over the wall and to my surprise
The watchman stands waiting
his arms open wide
In one hand a trowel and a single black seed
In the other a future of fortune and greed
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UPDATE: 20 APRIL 2017
SOME IDEAS FOR VERSES 3 & 4
Obviously I can' use all of these ideas. My brain is over-stimulated and I need help narrowing down to the best ideas. I'm trying to get across the idea that I was wrong to run from the watchman. Instead, I should have analyzed the direction he was trying to chase me so I could find my wall (obstacle) quicker in order to find my purpose/beloved/desire faster. And the idea that I have now, thanks to the watchman, found my aforementioned purpose, etc.
Wonders revealed to my eyes
Over the wall, found what's on the other side
O wondrous watchman, you urged me to climb (helped me to find? led me to find? showed me the light?)
Helped me to conquer the [darkness? hindrance?] of my pride
Ecstacy right there in front of me
My heart's desire revealed for all to see
My eyes are open, my purpose now clear
Something has helped me to vanquish all my fear
Watchman, oh, you were so good to me
Guiding me where I need(ed?) to be
No longer hidden, the gift (goal?) of my life or: I have found the treasure of my life
Shining light eliminating the darkness of my night
No longer running away from my life
I've learned to turn and face the obstacles of life (not good, life rhyming with life)
I bless the watchman who guided my way
And I've pay away all my hatred and my ?? ??
Copyright 2017 Vicki Morrison
EDITED 27 MARCH 2017
Hey Vicki!!
Thanks for the update!! (BTW You need not worry about any lack of feedback - already in my short time here you have reviewed two of my postings and in a lot of details so I am extremely grateful for that and wish you all the best in your upcoming performance :))
I'm trying to get across the idea that I was wrong to run from the watchman
From reading back through the lyrics I would say that you were right to flee from the watchmen but wrong to question their motives? You thought they were hostile but turns out they were helping you.
With that in mind I think these two work well together...
Ecstacy right there in front of me
My heart's desire revealed for all to see
My eyes are open, my purpose now clear
Something has helped me to vanquish all my fear
Watchman, oh, you were so good to me
Guiding me where I need(ed?) to be
No longer hidden, the gift (goal?) of my life or: I have found the treasure of my life
Shining light eliminating the darkness of my night
I'd maybe drop the all in the last line of the first verse and I think needed fits better on the second line of the second verse. I like gift over goal and I wander if you could use 'Piercing' in stead of eliminating? ...that would give
Ecstacy right there in front of me
My heart's desire revealed for all to see
My eyes are open, my purpose now clear
Something has helped me to vanquish my fear
Watchman, oh, you were so good to me
Guiding me where I needed to be
No longer hidden, the gift of my life
Shining light piercing the darkness of my night
Just a few thoughts. I love the direction you are going with this and I do like how you put your words together, some great imagery in this song. I look forward to the finished piece. BTW excellent post by Mike67 above! great suggestions. I hope you find something that you are happy with.
All the best
Darren
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@Mike67 and Darren1664: Thanks so much for the input. You've both given me some good direction which I think I can use.
And it looks like a bit of clarification on my part may be helpful to reviewers...this song is a kind of companion to a book, the theme of which is kind of "everything happens for a reason". It's based on an old parable type of story about a man who is in search of his beloved, Layli. He has no idea where she is, but he is searching everywhere. Watchmen keep showing up and chasing him, which diverts him from his search. When he finally runs in the direction they chase him (instead of avoiding them), he ends up at the wall and is forced over it to escape them. And finds himself in a beautiful garden where Layli is looking for a ring she lost.
We don't know the motives of the watchmen (though I get the impression it is not friendly), and one point of the book is that their motives don't matter. It only matters if we resist the direction they chase us or not. The more we resist, the longer it takes to find our "beloved" (our goal). Basically, they're a tool the universe or God or whatever uses to guide us to our goal or delightful destiny or whatever....
If that makes any sense. The authors of the book have heard and approved of the early draft I did and are waiting to hear the completed version. Which needs to support the theme of the book, of course.
Vicki
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Armed with that steer, I'll revisit tomorrow.
Mike
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Ahh Vicki, yes that makes perfect sense!! That's a very clever and thought provoking story. It really does put the lyrics into further context and you have done a wonderful job of portraying the story through music.
Good luck with the final verses! Exciting stuff
All the best
Darren
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So the final 2 verses need to show what was behind the wall, explain that this is what you were looking for all along, and the role of the watchmen as a kind of shepherd. So one verse could go something like this, and the other dedicated to the role of the watchmen and the happy ever after.
Over the wall and to my surprise
The thing I was seeking laid bare to my eyes
No beautiful maiden in search of a ring
But the answers to questions that were hidden within
Oh watchmen, oh watchmen...
Mike
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Thanks, Mike! I'm sure I can do something with that. It's great!
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I'm finally getting caught up (maybe?) with everything I'm working on and I now have what may become the final version of the lyric for this one. I've updated the original post, which now includes the latest version of the lyric, plus it still has the older versions below the update.
If you have time for another look, do you have any recommendations for final tweaks? I have also posted the most recent version in this post, below. I know the second chorus has the word "wall" several times, but I haven't been able to come up with anything better, so far.
Thanks,
Vicki
https://soundcloud.com/caliamoko/wall-seeker-demo/s-iGons
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WALL SEEKER
VERSE 1
Darkness pervades my reality.
Mischief is everywhere I see.
Blindness mistaken for vanishing light.
Winds of despair blowing clouds in my eyes.
VERSE 2
Searching for wisdom, I stumble and fall.
I flee from the watchmen, run into a wall.
There's nowhere to go; I have run out of time.
A burst of frustration persuades me to climb.
CHORUS 1
Wall seeker, wall seeker, that's what I will be.
The wall conceals something that's precious to me.
I need to take action; I know what to do.
Climbing the wall is my only way through.
VERSE 3
I'm over the wall now and to my surprise
I find what I'm seeking, laid bare before my eyes
My vision is sharp and my purpose is clear
Knowledge has helped me to sublimate my fear.
CHORUS 2
Wall seeker, wall seeker, that's what I've become.
I've more walls to climb; there is never just one.
Guided by watchmen; each wall that I find
Inspires me to leave my old blindness behind
Copyright 2017 Vicki Morrison
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Wow..I had to check I was listening to the right track! You've really ramped it up from the original recording. The lyrics, to me, are spot on! I will read over them again (just popping the kettle on ;)) but I won't find fault. They are superbly written and (and I'm struggling to think of the word that means that they stick to the story? Tell the same message from start to finish...like cohesive??...damn my brain...but whatever the word is they are that).
I really do think this is a great write. I really like what you have done musically but a part of me would love to hear this again stripped back with just you and your acoustic as you originally recorded it. I found the simple backdrop of just the guitar really made your voice stand out and you have a lovely voice. However, that's just me and what you have done is really good. Thanks for updating us Vicki.
All the best
Darren
Oh BTW - I like that the word Wall is used a lot in the final chorus. It's a main feature of the story and I think the reiteration is good.
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Thanks, Darren! You say such nice things! And I want to make sure the record is accurate. The instrumental backing is all PaulAds, not me. He very kindly helped me clarify my melody by designing and recording a backing track for me. So a big thank you to PaulAds! :)
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Thanks, Darren! You say such nice things! And I want to make sure the record is accurate. The instrumental backing is all PaulAds, not me. He very kindly helped me clarify my melody by designing and recording a backing track for me. So a big thank you to PaulAds! :)
Hehe that's alright. I have re read them again and still no faults found :P (One tiny, minuscule note was that the word sublimate was a bit tongue twistery for me but you sing in well in the track).
And kudos to Paul for putting that together...he is very kind to do so and like I said I do really like the music.
Darren
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I admit I was a bit hesitant to use "sublimate", but it means exactly what I want to say there AND in exactly the right number of syllables. ;D
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I'm moving this to Finished Songs...
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13295.0
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I’ve listened to this several times, trying to appraise your song fairly. I’m struggling to connect with both the lyrics and music. For that to happen, I’ve got to to relate to the subject matter and to recognise thoughts and feelings that may be applicable to my own circumstances. I think, that’s the main goal of a songwriter - to connect with others so that they can recognise events that may be true of their own circumstances in the past or the present and also to evoke emotion. I’m not able to relate to the title “Wall Seeker.” This may be inspired by a work of literature but I still need to feel a connection. At the moment, you have a fairly bleak set of lyrics set to a jovial melody that doesn’t evoke emotion for me and therefore I’m struggling to connect.
I think this would suit multiple voices, it has a hymn like quality. If I was producing this, I would leave plenty of space, long bass notes and loose drums, making the choir/communal voices the focal point.
Paul
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Thanks, Paul, for your insight. I really like the choral idea you mentioned and is something I may work on in the future for this.
I have updated the demo (although that won't help it connect with listeners emotionally) and have moved the song to "Finished Songs" (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13295.0).
The literature this song accompanies will be used for educational sessions and the song will be useful in that context. Someone with more skill than I (or maybe even me with enough thought and struggle) could probably write an appropriate song that would work for that purpose, as well as connect with the general public emotionally. I do have a tendency to give up too easily. I think I'm improving, though. ;D
Thanks again for offering your evaluation. I appreciate it a lot.
Vicki
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This song has been moved to "Finished Songs"
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13295.0
If you feel moved to provide feedback, I hope you'll check it out there first.
Thanks,
Vicki