The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => The Writing Process => Topic started by: Hooded Singer on July 10, 2016, 07:22:47 PM
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Rhyming every line.
This can potentially makes songs sound cheesy or contrived.
It's a very typical thing to do because when coming up with the next line it's instinctive to pick a rhyme to flow on.
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I kinda like over doing the rhyming. If you do it such that it doesn't seem forced it can sound great. But easy to get wrong as well.
I think the biggest mistake new songwriters make is getting stuck on a particular tune. Thinking it's their best and spending too much time recording and promoting it perhaps.
You need to just keep writing and always believe the next song is gonna be your best ever!
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The most common beginner mistake I see is people filling a whole song with one single idea, essentially repeating themselves but using different words. E.g. I'm all alone // and so lonely // by myself // no-one to hold me
etc
This is particularly hard to stomach when the song can be boiled down to 'poor me' - there's nothing worse than 3-5 minutes of self-indulgent relentless whining.
2nd most common mistake is thinking your song that makes mistake #1 is really great.
HOWEVER, we were all beginner songwriters once, and we all wrote cruddy songs. So I'm not having a go, just saying what I see.
Newbies: write lots of songs. Be prepared for most of them to be a bit rubbish. Keep at it and they'll get better. Have fun kids :)
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"Rhyming every line"
Doesn't happen in a feel flow of thoughts but only when you read back.
"This can potentially makes songs sound cheesy or contrived"
cheesy potentially contrived, did you ever eat a breakfast roll.
"It's a very typical thing to do because when coming up with the next line it's instinctive to pick a rhyme to flow on"
Warm welcome to the journey Hooded Singer 8)
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Trying to be orginal is another one. That only comes after a lot of practice. Keep it simple, write lyrics from the heart and just try to knock them out one after another. Practice makes perfect. Also, give them to others to listen to and not just your family or friends who will say ´um, yeah, that´s alright that is´.
Also use one rule - try to bring in something different in each verse or chorus - some slight melody change, an added 7th chord instead of the normal major/minor or a one-line harmony. It helps to practice variety.
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Also use one rule - try to bring in something different in each verse or chorus
What a cracking little nugget Martyn. Will definitely use in future!
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Settling. Settling for "that'll do" phrases and lines. Believing that one or two pretty good lines will carry a lyric.......not! Every line, every word! is a link in the chain of a quality lyric. Accept no substitutes!
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I vote for that one--"settling". Especially with the lyrics, but also with the melody.
For lyrics, use a rhyming dictionary and a thesaurus and find more interesting and/or more suitable words. If it doesn't feel right, if you get stuck, set it aside and sleep on it. Then try again. Post the lyric in Lyrics (http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/index.php?board=22.0) and point out the spot or spots troubling you and ask for suggestions.
For melodies, try inverting an interval or reversing all the intervals of a phrase, raising or lowering a motif a third, adding melisma, using repetition. Take a phrase from a song you know and turn it upside down and/or change the rhythms. There are so many ways to mess with melody.
Vicki
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Overconfidence.....
I believe it's important to critically analyse your work and put the listener first.
Songwriters sometimes fall into the trap of believing their work is 'perfect' simply because it's there own, they'll reject any criticism on the grounds of 'taste'.
These days, I'm my own worst enemy, my harshest critic. As much as I can, I try and put the listener first.
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These days, I'm my own worst enemy, my harshest critic. As much as I can, I try and put the listener first.
I both agree and heartily disagree! :D
Overconfidence is a curse in any creative endeavour. Being able to see where your song could be improved is crucial to the development of your craft, and spending time exploring how that could happen is a key part of the process.
HOWEVER, I don't always agree that putting the listener first is the way to produce your best work. Maybe it depends on your songwriting goals, but putting the listener first sounds like a recipe for avoiding risk, and taking risks is important if you want to avoid treading the same ground time and time again.
Interesting thread this :)
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put the listener first.
Hi Adam - not trying to pile on here, but one of the biggest mistakes is to "put the listener first". I say write songs like no-one is going to listen to them (sort of like the expression "dance like there is no-one looking") That way you free yourself of the fear of your songs not being liked. Or maybe I'm just over-confident :) :)
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Maybe you put the listener first if you want to sell the song (not a bad thing) but maybe not if you want to express yourself (definitely a good thing). It is up to you but I find my best stuff comes when I want to express myself and the songs that have been best received on this forum have been those. If you work hard at doing this and perfecting this (and of course being self-critical), then hopefully the listeners will take care of themselves. If they don´t you´re still getting your art out of your system, which at least stops you going completely bonkers.
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I don't think in terms of songwriters making mistakes.
This only matters if you are presenting your music as a saleable product.
I can't be the only one who enjoys making music for the simple joy of creating.
There are no rules if you don't play the game.
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put the listener first.
Hi Adam - not trying to pile on here, but one of the biggest mistakes is to "put the listener first". I say write songs like no-one is going to listen to them (sort of like the expression "dance like there is no-one looking") That way you free yourself of the fear of your songs not being liked. Or maybe I'm just over-confident :) :)
I'll rephrase it in that case.....
We should always at least "consider" the listener. I'm all for self expression and wouldn't put anything out I wasn't happy with, but without some critical analysis we'd never improve.
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put the listener first.
Hi Adam - not trying to pile on here, but one of the biggest mistakes is to "put the listener first". I say write songs like no-one is going to listen to them (sort of like the expression "dance like there is no-one looking") That way you free yourself of the fear of your songs not being liked. Or maybe I'm just over-confident :) :)
I'll rephrase it in that case.....
We should always at least "consider" the listener. I'm all for self expression and wouldn't put anything out I wasn't happy with, but without some critical analysis we'd never improve.
haha - good point. I probably consider the listener a lot more than I'm willing to admit :) Welcome, BTW!
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put the listener first.
Hi Adam - not trying to pile on here, but one of the biggest mistakes is to "put the listener first". I say write songs like no-one is going to listen to them (sort of like the expression "dance like there is no-one looking") That way you free yourself of the fear of your songs not being liked. Or maybe I'm just over-confident :) :)
I'll rephrase it in that case.....
We should always at least "consider" the listener. I'm all for self expression and wouldn't put anything out I wasn't happy with, but without some critical analysis we'd never improve.
haha - good point. I probably consider the listener a lot more than I'm willing to admit :) Welcome, BTW!
Thanks and nice to meet you :)
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haha - good point. I probably consider the listener a lot more than I'm willing to admit :) Welcome, BTW!
I still think there's a line to be drawn here too - even though you're writing the song, you're also the listener as you do it, almost certainly the only listener. And you're also probably writing the song you'd like to hear, so it goes without saying that you're writing for *a* listener. How much credence you give to that other imaginary audience while you're writing is another thing. Sure, it's probably lurking to some extent in all of us, but like Paulski, I like to think my best songs are the ones I wrote for me.
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Writing a melody that closely follows the chord sequence will usually result in an uninspired tune. A lot of new (and not so new) songwriters fall into this trap. Better to come up with the vocal melody first and then assemble the chord sequence around it, I find.
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I think the biggest mistake new songwriters make is
The internet lyric/songwriter community can be a plus and negative for any new lyric/songwriters confidence, if i was starting of today i think the internet lyric/songwriter community would be a great place to start but then i can see the negative side of it as well, so i think one of the biggest mistake new lyric/songwriters make is not putting their work out there, but then theres that fear that their work is not good enough, that fear that their work their ideas will be stolen, that fear that they really want to learn to better their talent but all they hear is their own negative thoughts telling them, whatever no good reason why.
Also i think the biggest mistake new and old songwriters make is in one word, protection, but in reality all their lyrics/songs are doing is gathering dusts, i could go on, like new lyric/songwriters posting for help and when they get it you never hear from them again (negative thoughts telling them, whatever no good reason why) when in actual fact they really do have talent and finally theres the classic, ill just post my work and the hell with you all.
One last thing, I think the biggest mistake new and old lyric/songwriters make is, none at all, if you don't enjoy it then find something else to do.
I try and put the listener first.
After i record a song i become the listener, all 80.000 of them, no fecking kidding man 8)
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The biggest mistakes must be
Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month. Because.
For the older songwriters who want to sound like their favorite artists, well that's OK if you only want to write for fun.
But if you don't listen to the current music in the charts how will you ever write a current song.
The way they are produced.
I think the biggest mistake lyric writers make is they try to make every line rhyme. And there's to much love and sorrow in each verse.
If I'm looking for a love song lyric I'm looking for one that doesn't say I love or you or you broke my heart etc.
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Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month. For the older songwriters who want to sound like their favorite artists, well that's OK if you only want to write for fun.........But if you don't listen to the current music in the charts how will you ever write a current song.
That may be true if you want to write a top 20 song, but I'd bet that most of the "older" songwriters don't have a favorite artist in the top 20 to listen to.......nor do they want to sound like a favorite artist or write a "current" song. Songwriters are, in my experience, striking individualists that certainly want to write well but don't necessarily want to emulate anyone else. I know I fit that description. I want to convey what rattles around in my mind in my own way, hopefully uniquely, and such that a listener will be engaged to at least consider what's being said.
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Apart from the obvious of not using the fab resources and talents of this forum for me its Not Finishing song.
Starting is hard, but finishing harder. Complete it and move on the the next. Like Arnold Parlmer's thing the more you do the better you'll get, so dont get stick.
:)
Neil
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The biggest mistakes must be
Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month. Because.
For the older songwriters who want to sound like their favorite artists, well that's OK if you only want to write for fun.
But if you don't listen to the current music in the charts how will you ever write a current song.
The way they are produced.
I'm dying laughing here....
You fail to differentiate between music and the music business. The music business is all about sincerity,once you can fake that,you are made.
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I'm going to go a little left of field and say the biggest mistake is taking the opinion of others as absolute gospel. Music is so subjective and what floats one persons boat doesn't do it for someone else. I think the key is to give consideration to a plurality of voices in feedback but not to automatically assume that just because X says the drums in your track are lousy doesn't actually mean they are. It's the fine line between rejecting all critique in a 'know-it-all' way and accepting everything negative anyone else says as fact rather than opinion. This forum is a great place for a breadth of feedback from differing perspectives so I guess the task is to weigh it all up and tweak accordingly.
Granted for those aiming for commercialism there are, for sure, certain people you should definitely listen to and give increased reception to but even then it isn't always gospel (ie A Team, Blurred Lines, All About the Bass have all confounded the industry folk who wrote them off).
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Before the Internet, to get your music out there (or in some cases even produced), at least one other person had to like what you were doing (a promoter, producer, agent or someone in the industry)
This in effect meant most of the music people heard on the radio etc had already been 'vetted' for want of a better word, which resulted in better quality music.
Then along came the internet and now anyone can release anything, regardless of the quality. They don't need it pass some sort of test. For me this is a BIG problem as this means the artists that get ahead aren't necessarily the most talented, and we get swamped with mediocrity.
Going back to the OP. Music as a whole (IMHO) needs that lost stage of Quality Control, of tough love, otherwise we'd get carried away on a wave of deluded self-appreciation.
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Apart from the obvious of not using the fab resources and talents of this forum for me its Not Finishing song.
Starting is hard, but finishing harder. Complete it and move on the the next. Like Arnold Parlmer's thing the more you do the better you'll get, so dont get stick.
:)
Neil
I must agree with Neil C here, not finishing songs is a bad habit to start. I went through a stage around 10 years ago where I had a drawer next to my bed full of half or three quarters finished songs.
Once I had done it a few times I began to rarely finish songs, I felt that a song had to be written in one or two sittings, while the emotions or idea was fresh.
This just led to frustration in the long run and I began practicing a new method of not starting a new song until I had finished the previous.
I believe it's okay to write pages of seperate ideas, rhymes, chord sequences or melodies but having a whole bunch of half finished songs and waiting for two to fit together is counter productive.
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I think the "biggest mistake new songwriters make" is exactly the same as the "biggest mistake old songwriters make."
And I think that "biggest mistake" is thinking that I/we/they KNOW what the "biggest mistake you can make" is.
Each of us tends to see the mistakes OTHERS make as "big/bigger/biggest" and the mistakes we make ourselves as "insignificant."
I suggest that each of us "JUST WRITE." Try to find our own mistakes by listening to others. The whole concept of a "biggest mistake" is really without meaning.
I've written bad songs by following Bob Dylan's example. Dylan could pull it off, and I could not. The only mistake was not being good enough to pull it off. Try things without worrying whether it's a mistake or not.
Not sure any of what I said here is comprehensible. It's more of a feeling than a thought.
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Sounds sensible to me Tom. The more you broaden your horizons and think outside the box, the better you'll get by not worrying about mistakes along the way.
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Not listening enough to great songwriters and absorbing what they can teach you. If you listen to someone such as Joni Mitchell you will realise just how much possibility there is for self expression in songwriting.
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Cool thread. A quick check and balance reveals I'm not making too many mistakes but could do better:
Mistakes I Make From Those Listed So Far
The most common beginner mistake I see is people filling a whole song with one single idea, essentially repeating themselves but using different words Yep. Almost every song I write has a single theme or idea, be it a story or a character or even an emotion (leaving, stealing melodies, being happy, remembering better times). I don't see this as an issue - but assuming it is, I'm guilty.
I believe it's important to critically analyse your work and put the listener first. I play what I like. I write what I like. I guess this could be my biggest mistake.
Writing a melody that closely follows the chord sequence will usually result in an uninspired tune. Yep, guilty. My singing is pretty limited and thus I rarely - no, never - write something where the melody note would not follow the chord sequence.
The biggest mistakes must be Not listening to the top 20 at least once a month. Guilty. I've never ever in my life listened to pop music. Just doesn't connect with me. Even when I was a teenager (which is the demographic that the top twenty is aimed at - although pre-teens these days, too) I never connected with pop music. Always preferred The Allman Bros. to Bros.
Not Finishing song. Kind of guilty. For me a song isn't finished until I've played it live a few times (enough times for me to know whether it's going to work or not). There are plenty I've written that I've never played live.
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Mistake I Don't Make From Those Listed So Far
Rhyming every line - nope, not guilty. I like a good rhyme but I'm happy to write songs that don't rhyme. I actually think what's worse is obvious rhymes/over-used rhymes (same thing can be said about subject matter) but this doesn't seem to bother anyone but me, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning as a mistake.
Getting stuck on a particular tune. Thinking it's their best and spending too much time recording and promoting it. Definitely not guilty. Not written anything that I think is worthy of spending more than one take on yet, and definitely nothing that warrants promoting.
2nd most common mistake is thinking your song that makes mistake #1 is really great. Not guilty - still don't think I've written a great song, let alone a really great one.
Trying to be original is another one. Not me. Originality is as rare as hen's teeth IMHO and I certainly don't go searching for it as comments here will testify!
Settling. Settling for "that'll do" phrases and lines. Believing that one or two pretty good lines will carry a lyric.......not! Every line, every word! is a link in the chain of a quality lyric. Accept no substitutes! Not guilty. Many of my songs have taken years before I find the right rhyme or just the right story.
Overconfidence..... Ha! No. Not me.
Taking the opinion of others as absolute gospel Nope, not guilty. I listen to what others say. I consider their ideas. I might agree, I might not. A lot depends on who they are, what they listen to and like, the quality of what they produce etc etc.
Not listening enough to great songwriters and absorbing what they can teach you. Not guilty. I listen to great songwriters all the time. But, of course, what I consider great mightn't be what others consider great. There are hit singles I think are appalling.
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On a personal note, the biggest mistake I make is never practicing writing for others. All my songs are written for me, and because of my limitations in singing and playing and music knowledge it follows my songs are pretty limited. The best songs I've written are where I've been the lyricist and I've given the melody and chords and arrangement over to others. Which is why this may happen more in the future.
Cheers
Derek
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To copy delb0y:
My songs are mostly one idea but they develop the point. I don't think I repeat myself too much. Unless I'm repeating exactly. I think the bigger point here is to provide development, not have more than one subject.
I do think somewhat about the listener. There are songs I've made that I can sit there and sing to myself but they're just boring. I generally want my songs to be pretty lively even if they're depressing (a great fault of mine is being unable to write anything happy haha). But I am really writing for myself.
I cannot get my hand out of my mouth. When I write a chord progression for a song I just can't seem to get myself to do something that doesn't follow the vocal line in all ways. And I don't want that! As I said, I want my songs to actually sound interesting and lively and layered.
I listen to EVERYTHING. Generally I will listen to BBC Radio 1 mindlessly in the morning. I listen to older stuff... I must confess I rarely go back further than 1970s. With punk and early post punk and the begginings of electronica (Kraftwerk woopwoop!) it's just more interesting. I do skip all the way back to classical though. The modern current stuff I listen to is a bit confined though, it's mostly dance stuff because I like to dance to it aaaand, some (not all) of it is quite interesting, more so than I dunno, Ed Sheeran and his undersized guitar. I also listen to a lot of more alternative modern stuff, but I was talking about proper popular music there. With modern popular music, I listen to dance stuff.
I am very very guilty of not finishing songs, because as I said earlier I cannot get my hand out of my mouth so I am never happy with anything. Like I finish my lyrics, but that's it.
I also ryhme a lot but I try not to make it chliche. And I don't force it either, I just see where it goes.
I never promote anything.
I can get a bit enamoured with my songs I must say.
I mean... I do try and be orignal... I'm not too bothered but I really do try. I reject most songs that I try to escape the predictable storytelling singer songwriter vibe... usually by being a bit more dancey or dramatic. I generlaly try to add depth but seem sort of superficially catchy in a slightly unnerving way, which stops my songs from being too predictable I think. I really cannot see how trying to implement some originality would be a msitake.
I have definitely settled in the past. I think it's important for begginners to settle somewhat. They need to get stuff down and build up a flow. I try not to settle these days - I've gotten much more picky.
Overconfidence. I can be a bit on some levels, not on others.
No I don't take others opinion as gospel. I know a lot of people won't like my vibe. On here I think people get it, but some people have made some suggestions of me changing some things that on reflection I just don't want to change.
I mean, what do you mean by great songwriters? I don't listen to Bob Dylan, Johnny Cash, Simon and Garfunkel I dunno, those sort of guys that people say are great songwriters. I just don't care for the vibe. Maybe I'll try again. But I dunno, that is so removed from me. I am not an American man from the 60s - and I don't mean that literally I just mean I have nothing in common with that, and I should not write like that. I am British, prone to bouts of depression and not at all wealthy or glamourous - Ian Curtis, I feel ya. I am British, queer, very much able to laugh at sadness and just the stupidity of life, and caring about people being able to dance to my songs (as in The Smiths... not his later stuff I can't dance to that) - Morrisey, I love ya. I am a girl of the modern age, not really taking much meaning in being a girl, fed up of the shallow pleasures of current life, yearning for love - Jehnny Beth, you understand. I am just a bit of an anarchist - punks unite! I could go on. But yeah, I find it difficult to listen to old "great songwriters". I do listen to music of lyrical value, but not them. I am always trying to expand though so maybe at some point I'll get there.
Now what would I say is a big beginner mistake?
1. Not writing enough. As I said, I don't care if you settle a bit in the begginning, just keep churning them out and keep trying.
2. Not tapping into your emotions and/or using your experiences fully. I dunno, I used to just come up with lines and run with them. The song may have ended up catchy but it wouldn't be about anything all that personal. And yeah, even if your writing some fantastic story song I think it should tie into yourself. Otherwise how ar eyou supposed to perform it? And how do you expect anyone to connect if you don't? I was always holding back if and when I tried to do this, you have to pour yourself out on the paper, otherwise you'd be better off writing that song that's entirely removed from your emotions, because this ones just gonna be cliche and shallow.
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... not understanding enough about technique/theory, or if they do, not understanding its importance in songwriting.
Many of the great/est songs weren't so much written, they were constructed, often very deliberately.
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... not understanding enough about technique/theory, or if they do, not understanding its importance in songwriting.
Many of the great/est songs weren't so much written, they were constructed, often very deliberately.
This is an interesting point of view. It strikes me that you're talking about the Cole Porter/ Irving Berlin era of songwriting? In which case I'd be inclined to agree with you, but also, great is something of a subjective judgement. I mean Yesterday by Paul McCartney is arguably a great song, but was it 'constructed'? I think he composed the music in a dream, and only really had to sweat to write the words...
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... not understanding enough about technique/theory, or if they do, not understanding its importance in songwriting.
Many of the great/est songs weren't so much written, they were constructed, often very deliberately.
This is an interesting point of view. It strikes me that you're talking about the Cole Porter/ Irving Berlin era of songwriting? In which case I'd be inclined to agree with you, but also, great is something of a subjective judgement. I mean Yesterday by Paul McCartney is arguably a great song, but was it 'constructed'? I think he composed the music in a dream, and only really had to sweat to write the words...
I think there is relevance to this point. I definitely feel like my lack of understanding of music theory and limited technique in everything holds me back. It ought to haha, otherwise ever learning that stuff would be useless.
In terms of songs being constructed... I think it is absolutely definitely worth putting your ideas through a wringer and trying to create a higher version. I've had lyric ideas that I could sing nicely along to a chord progression that I like, but if I think about them... I feel like the emotion deserves a more dramatic stand out depiction than regular old strummy guitar. So I've reworked the whole thing - lyric and music to construct a full picture. And I've had things that I liked singing along to chord progressions but I felt the atmosphere of the guitar part needed to be better served by my vocal melody and lyrics so I've painstakingly contructed more weaving lines that hug the progression. These things are all worth doing. I must say though none of this involved using music theory much more than knowing what notes certain things are and wondering how I should match/contrast the vocal/guitar/whatever with that. I just imagine it could be easier if I did know what I was doing haha.
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I think another mistake new songwriters make is adopting a superiority complex or, conversely, an inferiority complex. Basically reading/listening to lyrics and songs and thinking 'I'm better than them' or 'they are better than me'. Music is hugely subjective so the issue of being 'better' is perhaps the wrong approach to take - it's amatter of being 'different'. I read a lot of the lyrics on here and listen to a lot of the songs. I don't think I'm better than of the the other forumites but I don't think any of them are necessarily better than me.Granted a lot have more developed skill sets and write in different styles and there's some peoples songs/music/style I connect with more than others but that's probably a personal taste thing. Likewise, there's songs I hear and I really like but don't see as commercial while there's songs I hear and see as commercial but don't necessarily like them. I think failing to keep this perspective in the mindset is a mistake new songwriters make.
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I think another mistake new songwriters make is adopting a superiority complex or, conversely, an inferiority complex. Basically reading/listening to lyrics and songs and thinking 'I'm better than them' or 'they are better than me'. Music is hugely subjective so the issue of being 'better' is perhaps the wrong approach to take - it's amatter of being 'different'. I read a lot of the lyrics on here and listen to a lot of the songs. I don't think I'm better than of the the other forumites but I don't think any of them are necessarily better than me.Granted a lot have more developed skill sets and write in different styles and there's some peoples songs/music/style I connect with more than others but that's probably a personal taste thing. Likewise, there's songs I hear and I really like but don't see as commercial while there's songs I hear and see as commercial but don't necessarily like them. I think failing to keep this perspective in the mindset is a mistake new songwriters make.
Now an interesting aspect of what you just said is that the pyschology of "comparing" (yourself to others) means that the person comparing ALWAYS compares from a point of weakness/inferiority.
The obviously accomplished person does NOT compare himself to unaccomplished other people. There is no need to. His genuine (earned) confidence in his own level of accomplishment means he need not compare himself to others who obviously cannot compete with him/her.
It is not until the person being viewed is frighteningly close to being good enough to challenge us that we play the "I'm better than him/her/it" card. And we always do it out of the fear that it isn't true. If we aren't afraid someone IS better than we are, we need not make the comparison.
But when we (or he/she/they) DO make the comparison, the fact that the comparison is driven by fear means that (in his/her own mind) the comparer WILL lose the comparison and feel even more inferior.
It's an interesting psychological human quirk. And you pointed it out perfectly in your post.
AND. . . btw. . . we "old songwriters" make all the same mistakes attributed to "new songwriters" in this post too.
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I don't know really, as I am only one songwriter amongst many and I only have my own perspective. Maybe the biggest mistake could be not allowing themselves to make any mistakes ?
Re Adam Harkus's point of putting the listener first, after a lifetime of putting everyone else first (no, not poor me, fact) I've decided to put myself on an equal footing, so I agree that the listener is important, but the singer/songwriter is equally important.
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And maybe trying too hard ?
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They steal too much or else they don't steal enough.
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Hi!
It took some time to read through this thread. I guess cause it was interesting.
It's nice to see such devotion to the subject.
We all make mistakes. But some are easier to avoid if you have some experience.
The road is full of obstacles. Each time you walk it. But with experience you are
better prepared and the obstacles are easier to avoid or overcome.
Everyone has their own difficulties when it comes to songwriting. Beginner or not.
If this is true (in short), not knowing about ways of overcoming what gives you trouble is
the biggest mistake. So what can these obstacles be?
Well the first you should not be scared to writing songs and then
discarding them if they don't meet your standards. Re-writing is always an option but as a beginner
discarding and starting something new is also a psychological exercise. You should learn not to 'kill your darlings' but to understand that writing a good, yes good not amazing, song is not a once in a lifetime experience. How many of your favorite artists are one-hit-wonders? Well surely not Joni Mitchell.
No one should be stuck in the past if they want to go forward. So the second mistake must be, as a beginner, not to think you can write a better song then the one about well anything. For every say five songs you write you will become a better songwriter. And guess what? Unless you live in a bubble you will every day be bombarded by impressions. Stuff to write about.
I see writing as a way of keeping sane. Some gossip, I write. I can't stop, just like I cant stop eating.
I've got a notebook full of five or six lines of music and nothing more. Discarded. You can write about what ever you want but if it can not turn it into something unless a miracle happens. )Well some still got the hope). I just turn the page and start anew. If you want to do something. Do it. If you want to do it good. Do it again.
Thanks for a great thread,
- Martin
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Everyone has their own difficulties when it comes to songwriting. Beginner or not.
If this is true (in short), not knowing about ways of overcoming what gives you trouble is
the biggest mistake.
Amen to that - you stripped it down to the wire. Excellent reply - the whole thing, not just the part I quoted.
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Don't know why I didn't think of this before, but I think my biggest mistake has been in assuming I've run out of ideas. Or will have, once I finish the song I'm on.
A few years ago, I had written several songs, but only one or two I actually liked. The rest just embarrassed me. Then I wrote another one I liked. Then I took a songwriting course and wrote two or three more I liked. And now I've joined this forum and written a few more I like.
Each time I write one I like, I'm thinking I will never be able to come up with another one as good. I've reached a point where I know the more I write, the better I will be, but I still have that negative mindset buried in my subconscious somewhere, always trying to sabotage me.
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Not finishing the songs...
I have loads i have to go back too...
& finish!!!.
But hey the prob i have, is when doing a song wham!!!
Another pops in to my scull :/
So then i record the Melody then write the lyrics
My problem is when i start getting melodys in my head
i have to hum them to my phone so that i dont lose the melody
I seen myself many a night wake up with music going through my head..,
Hum it to the phone then back to sleep, then if i get time go back to the melody
& get it on guitar etc.. then start writing... but as i say its finishing what is started..
Is my plight... its just getting time to work on each one :/
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Apart from the obvious of not using the fab resources and talents of this forum for me its Not Finishing song.
Starting is hard, but finishing harder. Complete it and move on the the next. Like Arnold Parlmer's thing the more you do the better you'll get, so dont get stick.
:)
Neil
this is mine as well. i was going to post it up but read on and found someone else with my same bad habit. i have a number of potentially good songs that i have put on the back burner expecting to have the lyrics fall from the heavens some day.
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something else occurs to me. i don't recall reading it so apologies if i overlooked.
I notice quite frequently that new lyricists gravitate toward trite, overused metaphors and phrases. we are probably all guilty of it from time to time, but a song riddled with recycled words and phrases really turns me off... as a consumer of lyrical content, little bothers me more.
great songwriters are rarely or never trite. i'm inspired by those whom i consider to be superb lyricists; Jeff Tweedy, Elvis Costello, Lucinda Williams. I strive for their greatness, and though i'm certain that i fall short, i feel that measuring my work against theirs is the surest way to eventually find quality.
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Mikek - have to agree with that - it may depend on the genre but I just can't settle for saying lyrics don't matter. At the risk of contradicting myself though, for the first song or two you really need to get them done and complete and get the felling of creating something, so too much perfectionism and complexity at that stage can be a hindrance. After that, though, keep rewriting until it's the best it can be!
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After that, though, keep rewriting until it's the best it can be!
I completely agree and it really is the best of both worlds where you can be "creative and write from the heart" to get the song written/finished
I think one of the biggest mistakes new songwriters make is stopping there - in the thought that any tweaking will "undo" the creativity
I strongly believe that if at this point you concentrate on "re-writing" and refining the song using tried and tested "songcraft" techniques you will get a creative/emotional song from the heart that has been refined to be the best it can be
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"I think the biggest mistake new songwriters make is" as you can see we all have many thoughts on this here's another one of mine, great question btw
We all have different reasons why we write lyrics/songs we all have different reasons why we put or not put our work out there "mistake that we make" can be our greatest teachers and friends in what happens next but only when we remember and understand for whatever reason that may be.
"I think the biggest mistake new songwriters make is" post and we'll do our best to tell you, in our own way, memories and understanding hopefully included.
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not believing in themselves.
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Wicked, wise words.
Ps I believe in you :-)
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Hey Neil, good to hear from you buddy. I've heard one or two new writers say that they can't write or that's they are 'no good'. when I first started to write 36 years ago, I could barely play a musical instrument but I had a strong belief that's I was going to write something extraordinary. I think that as a young person, that's kind of self-belief can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Equally, a negative outcome can be achieved through a lack of self belief. Essentially, new writers might do well to think they are a unique individual who will therefore bring a different perspective to the table. John Lennon once said that he believed he was in the best band in Liverpool, then England, then the world. He went on to say that believing that is what made The Beatles the band that they became. Don't get tangled up with arrogance, simply believe in yourself, learn your trade and hopefully write something extraordinary.
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I am quite new to this site and to recording my music.
The biggest mistake I made was to not share my music with others. Criticism is so important. Playing for myself and myself only for many years has definitely skewed my perception of my songs and stifled the process of writing.
Having feedback really helps with developing an idea into something more and it helps in finding a direction to go in.