The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Recording => Topic started by: pompeyjazz on May 07, 2016, 10:40:46 PM
-
Ok. I'm sure quite a few of you will know how I feel here. I've just finished mixing my latest tune and I think it sounds pretty good mix wise, so I save the wav and go and play it on my system downstairs and it sounds totally different. So I play it on a smaller Bluetooth speaker and it sounds totally different again. I remember reading in the sixties and seventies producers played the output through a transistor radio when mixing as that is what the listener would hear. I've tried some mastering vsts but they made things a whole lot worse. Set me back months. Any little tips and tricks that you guys have out there would be most enlightening.
Cheers John
-
Hey JOHN
There is soooooooooo much to say
I think it would be easiest to "show" you
If you want to PM me with a download link for your mix (without any of your mastering) I would happily have a crack at mastering the song for you and giving you some specific feedback on the mix and what I have done with the mastering (assuming you like it)
This would be completely free of charge by the way ;)
The art of mixing is to not just get a good balance of instrument volumes and frequencies (and a gazillion other things) but to get a mix that "translates" well to other systems - eg ear buds, hi-fi systems, mobile phones, car stereos, club systems etc.
All of the "tips and tricks" to achieve this are the same general "rules" for mixing
The most important part is probably your mixing environment/equipment
Eg - if your speakers emphasise the bass frequencies (like domestic hi-fi systems tend to do) and your room that you mix in also emphasise lower frequencies you will naturally mix the bass quite low as you will subconsciously compensate for your environment
If you now play on another system, in another room, without these bass anomalies your mix will sound very light on bass
This is why it is worth spending time "getting to know" your speakers and environment by playing some commercial mixes you are familiar with and notice the differences between systems
Sticking to bass for another example...
If you know people are going to listen on earbuds and smaller speakers (eg iPhones or iPad speakers) you know that these system will not reproduce a heavy bass sound
It might, therefore, be a good idea to copy your kick drum and add a frequency boost in the lower mids (or if you are using midi drums play it with a low Tom sound) so that you will still clearly hear the "kick" pattern on smaller speakers
-
That's brilliant Boydie . Ok I think the mix is ok but people listen to stuff in totally different ways these days. Will send you the links tomorrow.
Cheers John
-
"It might, therefore, be a good idea to copy your kick drum and add a frequency boost in the lower mids (or if you are using midi drums play it with a low Tom sound) so that you will still clearly hear the "kick" pattern on smaller speakers"
That is a fantastic tip you've given there Boydie! I've never mastered anything myself but that makes a lot of sense to me 😀
-
That is really a "mixing" tip rather than a mastering tip
You can do a similar thing with bass guitar - by getting a synth or piano to replicate the bass line
You can also to some neat things by cloning the audio track and process one of them for a big system, with a nice low end, and then on the other one you can cut the lower frequencies and give a boost to the low mids and mids to get a really "plucky" bass line that will be audible on smaller speakers/earbuds
-
Another point to add is think of your intended audience. I understand radio compressed the hell out of things. Soundcloud does it own compression, so it thats your intended medium learnt to work with it.
I'll often mix and then master and then listen to it via soundcloud and sometime slightly edit the mix or the master as required.
Other tips I've heard is give you ears a break before you do, and use your ears not your eyes ( guilty of that )
Have fun
:)
Neil
-
Mastering seems a tricky thing I am only just getting me head round.
Try listening to these guys as a start
http://themasteringshow.com
And good luck!
Tom
-
and here's some free tools http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2013/06/26/free-mastering-software/ (http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2013/06/26/free-mastering-software/)
I used this plug-in but there's some good advice and guidance on their site too https://www.izotope.com/en/learning/music-production/ (https://www.izotope.com/en/learning/music-production/)
:)
Neil
-
and here's some free tools http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2013/06/26/free-mastering-software/ (http://bedroomproducersblog.com/2013/06/26/free-mastering-software/)
I used this plug-in but there's some good advice and guidance on their site too https://www.izotope.com/en/learning/music-production/ (https://www.izotope.com/en/learning/music-production/)
:)
Neil
Mastering is an art form all by itself...thanks for the links Neil!
-
Also more mixing than mastering, but one technique I have found useful is to playback at about -25 db on the master track so the track is just audible and see what you can hear. Some things may stand out (which may be an indication that they need attention) but you should be able to distinguish everything and if not then some relevelling may be in order.
-
I know the link is not strictly mastering but check it out. Can't wait to try some of these tips:
http://theproaudiofiles.com/mixing-tips/
-
There are some great little tips n tricks there
-
Yup, fantastic.
-
Well, I´ve gone for a proper go at mastering today, on a new song that I hope to post soon. It´s got some quite in-your-face drums in it, but I´m noticing that they´re squashed when there are vocals over them (the arrangement works in a question and answer sense). Not sure why this is happening yet, but I look forward to getting it sorted because I think it sounds superb (and properly loud) apart from that minor detail.
-
I would try some parallel compression on your drum bus before the mastering
This way you can "dial in" your compression to the desired "squashiness" - and even automate the amount during different sections of the song
-
Hi Martyn - can't quite believe I'm thinking I can contribute here but I have had this before, and it all started when I started to make my mixes louder by using more compression / limiting on the master. (Makes sense actually - if you compress hard then in the louder parts where there are more tracks they all get more squashed).
There are various things you can do but getting the compression right on each track and/or bus before going to the master bus seems key. (Again I can't quite believe I am saying this) I like using parallel compression for upfront tracks with lots of "character" so if the drums are an important element then Boydie's suggestion seems perfect. On the master, compressing in stages seems to work better (e.g. one compressor shaving just the peaks and then another going a bit harder to level things out and then maybe a bit of limiting if you want).
Not overdoing it and being tempted to compress everything until you get a perfect black sausage when rendering is usually better! ;)
-
Great advice from ADAMFARR there
Another option for you is to have a play with "multi-band compression"
You do need to proceed with caution as it can easily wreck a mix but it might be a good option if you want to compress things "around" your vocals - eg firming and smoothing the bass and taming any spikes in the higher frequencies whilst leaving the key vocal frequencies untouched
This is not ideal and you should fix these things "in the mix" rather than at the mastering stage but would be another potential tool in your arsenal
-
The last two suggestions are really good ones...I do have a multi band compressor on the mix at the moment, which I think is the problem. My experience (or lack of) means I cannot fix it properly so maybe I will have a go at what our man in Granada said...
-
Hi guys, just a quick suggestion re mastering.
As you all said - mastering is pretty hard to get right without having in depth audio knowledge..
Mastering is even harder to get right if your room in not acoustically treated for mastering purposes( recording room, mixing room, mastering room - all have different specifications and treatments)..
To actually hear what you processing you need far field monitors for the full range spectrum not near field ones..
To get the best sounding audio, rich in transients, with great dynamic range, mastering should be done by mastering engineer who does it on the daily basis, who can correct whats needed, enhance whats good. It is very very difficult to get good sounding master by someone who compose, record and mix the track simply because at this stage our brain won't perform much of active listening, the decision making is affected by this person 'feelings' towards the song. I know and understand that not everyone can afford to pay for mastering service and thats fair enough, but its worth to remember - mastering is a form of investing in yourself, your career, hobby, passion...
As a full time mastering engineer I would give 1 strong advice - instead of focusing on 'own mastering' get your mix at the top level and use Mix Buss Compressor on your master channel to get everything 'glued' together. Forget about limiters, eq's, other compressors. Use only designated mix buss compressor. It's less possible you going to squash your music that way, less possible something goes wrong along the lines.
I would recommend 3 different mix buss compressors :
Slate Digital FG X
SSL Mix Buss
PSP Vintage Warmer.
Each of them works differently so you have to find your way to achieve desired sound.
I'm more than happy to answer your questions guys if any problems.
Thanks
Tom
-
Two simple pieces of advice for you.
1) Bring down all the levels on your individual tracks so that he master fader is just below 0dB on the loudest passages. This is important otherwise you'll get too much compression when you apply mastering. Doing this will give you room breath as it were.
2) Get a mastering plug-in (I'm presuming you use a DAW). I've used Ozone for years. Drag it onto the master track and flick through a few presets.
Job done.
Of course you could also spend years getting into the intricacies of mastering, but for me I'd rather focus on songwriting :)
-
Just had a rubbish Saturday shock...I put my latest up on a Logic Pro forum for production feedback and I was told about correlation issues...Result, I listened to the song in Mono and it sounds terrible. Is there any way of converting/bouncing to mono from stereo in Logic Pro X?
-
I most DAWs there is a single button you can press on a track/buss to hear it in mono
It looks like in Logic you are best off doing this:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6494868?start=0&tstart=0
This is really a MIXING thing (panning of instruments) rather than a MASTERING thing - although mastering can achieve multi-band widening/narrowing you are MUCH better considering how your mix will translate to a mono source when mixing
As people list to music on phones (often with single speakers) it is still important to consider MONO when mixing - this is especially important with "phase" issues as it can cause all sorts of issues
-
I have one rule: if it sounds good in my car, it sound good everywhere :) And believe it or not, this is how the professional producers also do it (I know a couple personally).
Mostly you can "fix" the sound by playing with compression, but it's one of the more difficult things to master in a studio.
-
I'd be happy to master your track with in my studio. I have been mastering tracks for over 3 years and have nice gear that will probably blow your mind. need to hear the Mix though since a master can't fix a bad mix.
-
Hi,
When mixing i used to use the most expensive speaker setup and just like you when i played my mixes on a normal set of speakers it always sounded different. I now no longer mix just on my high end speakers. I have a pair of crappy £30 speakers that i also mix on. If you can get it to sound great on a pair of shitty little speakers then i promise you it will sound wonderful when you turn on your expensive speakers.
Johnny :)
-
Hi guys, just a quick suggestion re mastering.
As you all said - mastering is pretty hard to get right without having in depth audio knowledge..
Mastering is even harder to get right if your room in not acoustically treated for mastering purposes( recording room, mixing room, mastering room - all have different specifications and treatments)..
To actually hear what you processing you need far field monitors for the full range spectrum not near field ones..
To get the best sounding audio, rich in transients, with great dynamic range, mastering should be done by mastering engineer who does it on the daily basis, who can correct whats needed, enhance whats good. It is very very difficult to get good sounding master by someone who compose, record and mix the track simply because at this stage our brain won't perform much of active listening, the decision making is affected by this person 'feelings' towards the song. I know and understand that not everyone can afford to pay for mastering service and thats fair enough, but its worth to remember - mastering is a form of investing in yourself, your career, hobby, passion...
As a full time mastering engineer I would give 1 strong advice - instead of focusing on 'own mastering' get your mix at the top level and use Mix Buss Compressor on your master channel to get everything 'glued' together. Forget about limiters, eq's, other compressors. Use only designated mix buss compressor. It's less possible you going to squash your music that way, less possible something goes wrong along the lines.
I would recommend 3 different mix buss compressors :
Slate Digital FG X
SSL Mix Buss
PSP Vintage Warmer.
Each of them works differently so you have to find your way to achieve desired sound.
I'm more than happy to answer your questions guys if any problems.
Thanks
Tom
Thanks for your advice Tom, that's why I'm here to get better. consistantly and to know why I'm doing what I'm doing
cpm