The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Resources & Marketing => Topic started by: Paulski on November 19, 2014, 08:53:31 PM
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Hi - thought I would share my thoughts on Taxi for anyone interested. First some facts:
- I joined about 8 months ago - cost me about $300 for a year
- I've bid about 8 of my songs on 12 "opportunities" (that cost $5 times 12 = $60)
- every song I bid was "returned" by a Taxi reviewer, so not forwarded on to the person requesting songs
- reasons for rejection varied but mostly said "not what they are looking for"
So, I sent them an email, basically asking "if you don't forward my stuff, what good are you to me?" Their head reviewer responded by basically repeating the line "your songs are not what those clients are looking for".
OK, so I get it. My songs are not what they are looking for. So I took his advice and listened to the reference songs in each of the opportunities. And he was right: My songs sounded nothing like those reference songs. TBH I was going by what I thought matched the genre they were looking for, thinking I knew what a genre sounded like - my bad. The other problem is that I didn't like any of the reference songs - not my cup of tea I guess you could say.
Oh, and one other thing I asked him - did Taxi offer a service where their reviewers would match up my material to opportunities. I said I would be happy to pay for such a service. His answer: no - we don't offer that.
Now I think I know how to "succeed" with Taxi. I can listen to a reference song and write and record an almost identical sounding song (if I can stomach doing it) and probably get it forwarded. If it does get forwarded I read that they have a less than 7% success ratio with their clients - so I would have to write and record about 100 songs in a style I didn't like to get one successful placement. Um, let me think about it, naah - I'd rather you put a bullet in my head - it would end up feeling better in the end.
So I'm not saying Taxi is bad - just saying be prepared to pay the price (not just in dollars) if you are considering joining. And, oh yeah, you probably guessed this already, it's not for me.
Paul
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I agree with you Paul, and that's why I'll never join Taxi or a service like it. If you're going to get your work out there, the only reliable method is to find a publisher. Someone who will act as an advocate for your work, and take a cut every time it gets used.
Either that, or if you're a damn good sales person with loads of contact, cut out the middle man and do it yourself.
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I am surprised you didn't realise this before signing up for TAXI
They are pitching for very "current" opportunities - which basically translates as "formulaic pop"
It is NOT easy to simply churn out this and I would argue that it is as difficult to write as a "heart felt arty ballad"
When I feel I have a body of work that would stand up to commercial standards (ie something I would consider a "guaranteed hit) I may give TAXI a go at some point in the future
I don't think I have written one yet (let alone having a collection of them) and in all my years reviewing songs on the forum I would say that I have heard less than 3 songs that I would say have a chance of getting picked up via a process like TAXI
That is not to say I have not heard fantastic songs - but not so many songs I would say are in the "oh my god - that is going to sell a million" - that is the standard songs need to be at before even considering pitching to "the big boys" to make ££££££
The bottom line is that the labels are looking for the next "guaranteed hit". This means staying true to what is currently selling. If you don't like the music in the current charts (or don't want to write that type of music) then you are wasting your time (and money) with TAXI and pitching to the "big boys"
I completely agree with TONE though, just because the TAXI experience wasn't right for you or your songs, that doesn't mean there isn't a more niche/specialist publisher / artist waiting to snap up your songs
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I was looking at this site the other day, i also have a mini Broadjam membership that i need to upgrade , if i want to pitch songs....Tunecore is another one in connection with publishing..........er , then i googled , 'are they any good' and then you read all the negative experiences...Tunecore for example, if you pay for their publishing....have the right ,and do change their policy that they agree with you, and in their favour,,even what you have on FB!....
The truth is these organizations are there to exploit the many songwriters and artists who are looking for exposure and success,,,,obviously they do deliver for some..but as Boydie says..it better be HOT,well recorded and very contemporary to what's out there..
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Ok got this EM lastnight...i enquired with the producer i've been using to do songs with...i have built up a good working relationship with him over the past year.......obviously he is a business guy as well,so probably going to say the 'right things'..but this was the reply if you want to read.
Black Friday - All Month Long @ AWritersParadise!
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AWritersParadise.com 03:26 Keep this message at the top of your inbox
To: stephen .
No problem, Stephen... I’m here when you need new productions.
re: pitching
We work with and do proactive pitching to sound libraries, tv/film sources,
artists looking for material..and more. We've had many placements over the
last year alone and we know we can easily placing songs directly in the hands of either major
publishers, tv producers, tv/film licensing people, artists seeking material..
All work is non-exclusive, so you can continue to have
others pitch away for you..with no conflict with other publishers or
pitchers. No reoccurring contract.. Like all of our services, it’s all
built to be super easy for the writer.
We don't just wait around for the perfect opportunity either.. we seek them
out and make it our goal to find leads that are perfectly matched for your
song. Others just put your song on a compilation of 50 other songs and
throw it out there to everyone hoping it'll get heard, but we do selective
and direct pitching which has shown actual results and has worked
wonderfully for us. We even pitch the instrumental versions as well to
double your odds.
Plus, no other company offers this perk:
If it's ever a song we produced, and the feedback is that they need something
tweaked in the mix to be perfect for their use, then provided we still have
your sessions on file, we tweak the song to their liking for free.
Pricing/ You save the longer you do it for ..and the more songs. (because it
naturally makes your odds of a bite that much stronger)
*tip* unless you’re in an extreme hurry, I wouldn't recommend the 25 day pitch,
even though it's absolutely possible to get results in that short amount of time,
but this doesn't give much time for pitch cycle (find opps, submit, them listen, get feedback or
contract, etc.)
The 90 or especially 180 day are the best deal, most potential, and almost always the
best results.
Pitching rates for 1 song:
25 day pitch = $199
90 day pitch = $299
180 day pitch = $499
Pitching rates for 2-4 songs
25 day pitch = $175 per song
90 day pitch = $275 per song
180 day pitch = $475 per song
Pitching rates for 5+ songs
25 day pitch = $150 per song
90 day pitch = $250 per song
180 day pitch = $430 per song
You will be updated in real time when there are successful bites.
Also, at the end of each term, you’ll get a detailed summary of
where the song was pitched as well as the current status
of the pitches.
Anytime you’re ready to begin, just let me know what you’d like,
and we'll start working getting your tunes in the right hands. :)
Thanks, Stephen.
Stacy - AWP
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I think this highlights the difference / USP with TAXI
TAXI "pre-screen" songs before pitching - with the theory being they then only pitch the very best songs, which enhances TAXI's reputation as it prevents them wasting people's time by sending songs that don't stand a chance of getting picked up
As PAULSKI has discovered the downside of this approach is that it is very possible that none of your songs will ever get through the "screening" process and therefore never get pitched
You are then left with 2 choices...
1 - you wonder whether the "screeners" have prevented you landing a pitch as surely the publisher/artist/manager/A&R/label would have loved your fantastic track
2 - you accept that the songs you are writing are not strong enough for the opportunities you are pitching for so you either adapt/improve your writing or stop pitching via TAXI
There are then 3 other main options...
1 - You pay for another company to pitch for you (as in the example STC has kindly shared above)
This is not cheap but you are paying for their “contacts” and links with the “industry”
The downside is that if they are promising to pitch everything (and they should if you are paying hundereds of dollars) they will potentially be pitching some absolute dross
Would this harm their reputation and therefore your chances?
Would they take people’s money and then decide not to pitch terrible songs?
2 – You pay to get access to “lead sheets” / “tip sheets” that give you the opportunity to pitch directly to the artist / manager etc.
The downside is you will be pitching “unsolicited” so there is a very strong chance your song will not get listened to at all
3 – You go the traditional route of pitching to publishers first
This is a longer term strategy, and means doing some homework to find a suitable publisher, but in the long run I think it could be the most productive
A reputable publisher will NEVER ask for money “up front” – they will do their work for a share of future royalties. This means they believe in you - and your songs - and will work to push them to the right people – using their industry contacts
There are variations of the above but I would see these as the main routes into the larger (£$£$) pitching opportunities
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I am surprised you didn't realise this before signing up for TAXI
They are pitching for very "current" opportunities - which basically translates as "formulaic pop"
It is NOT easy to simply churn out this and I would argue that it is as difficult to write as a "heart felt arty ballad"
When I feel I have a body of work that would stand up to commercial standards (ie something I would consider a "guaranteed hit) I may give TAXI a go at some point in the future
I don't think I have written one yet (let alone having a collection of them) and in all my years reviewing songs on the forum I would say that I have heard less than 3 songs that I would say have a chance of getting picked up via a process like TAXI
That is not to say I have not heard fantastic songs - but not so many songs I would say are in the "oh my god - that is going to sell a million" - that is the standard songs need to be at before even considering pitching to "the big boys" to make ££££££
The bottom line is that the labels are looking for the next "guaranteed hit". This means staying true to what is currently selling. If you don't like the music in the current charts (or don't want to write that type of music) then you are wasting your time (and money) with TAXI and pitching to the "big boys"
I completely agree with TONE though, just because the TAXI experience wasn't right for you or your songs, that doesn't mean there isn't a more niche/specialist publisher / artist waiting to snap up your songs
Hi Boydie
You raise some good points here, but you have a few misconceptions on Taxi as well:
They are pitching for very "current" opportunities - which basically translates as "formulaic pop"
Yes. there is a pop category, but there are just as many opps for country, adult contemp, rock, you name it genre. And I agree after listening to the samples they are ALL formulaic in their respective genres. As far as "current" I have noticed some very generic opps keep resurfacing - to me it says the buyer just says "keep a look-out for me", or maybe just "yeah - send me this type of song and I might listen to it". As the subscriber gets no feedback on Taxi's success (whether they bid your song or not) there is no real way of telling how "solid" these opps are.
When I feel I have a body of work that would stand up to commercial standards (ie something I would consider a "guaranteed hit")
Trouble is, you might consider it a "guaranteed hit" but the Taxi reviewer might not - and either one of you could be right/wrong. Also, if you look at the testimonials for Taxi, they can take credit for placing very few "hit" songs. I think they do better at TV/movie sync placements but that's just a guess based on what I've read.
Anyway, thanks for the comments - all good discussions.
Paul
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Ok got this EM lastnight...i enquired with the producer i've been using to do songs with...i have built up a good working relationship with him over the past year.......obviously he is a business guy as well,so probably going to say the 'right things'..but this was the reply if you want to read.
Black Friday - All Month Long @ AWritersParadise!
Actions
AWritersParadise.com 03:26 Keep this message at the top of your inbox
To: stephen .
No problem, Stephen... I’m here when you need new productions.
re: pitching
We work with and do proactive pitching to sound libraries, tv/film sources,
artists looking for material..and more. We've had many placements over the
last year alone and we know we can easily placing songs directly in the hands of either major
publishers, tv producers, tv/film licensing people, artists seeking material..
All work is non-exclusive, so you can continue to have
others pitch away for you..with no conflict with other publishers or
pitchers. No reoccurring contract.. Like all of our services, it’s all
built to be super easy for the writer.
We don't just wait around for the perfect opportunity either.. we seek them
out and make it our goal to find leads that are perfectly matched for your
song. Others just put your song on a compilation of 50 other songs and
throw it out there to everyone hoping it'll get heard, but we do selective
and direct pitching which has shown actual results and has worked
wonderfully for us. We even pitch the instrumental versions as well to
double your odds.
Plus, no other company offers this perk:
If it's ever a song we produced, and the feedback is that they need something
tweaked in the mix to be perfect for their use, then provided we still have
your sessions on file, we tweak the song to their liking for free.
Pricing/ You save the longer you do it for ..and the more songs. (because it
naturally makes your odds of a bite that much stronger)
*tip* unless you’re in an extreme hurry, I wouldn't recommend the 25 day pitch,
even though it's absolutely possible to get results in that short amount of time,
but this doesn't give much time for pitch cycle (find opps, submit, them listen, get feedback or
contract, etc.)
The 90 or especially 180 day are the best deal, most potential, and almost always the
best results.
Pitching rates for 1 song:
25 day pitch = $199
90 day pitch = $299
180 day pitch = $499
Pitching rates for 2-4 songs
25 day pitch = $175 per song
90 day pitch = $275 per song
180 day pitch = $475 per song
Pitching rates for 5+ songs
25 day pitch = $150 per song
90 day pitch = $250 per song
180 day pitch = $430 per song
You will be updated in real time when there are successful bites.
Also, at the end of each term, you’ll get a detailed summary of
where the song was pitched as well as the current status
of the pitches.
Anytime you’re ready to begin, just let me know what you’d like,
and we'll start working getting your tunes in the right hands. :)
Thanks, Stephen.
Stacy - AWP
Hi STC - yeah that is a very interesting eMail - and is basically the service I asked if Taxi provided. I guess if one had tons of money lying around that would be worth a try. I wonder if they can provide success stories to back their claims?
Thanks for sharing this.
Paul
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I don't think I have any misconceptions about TAXI - and I neither pro or anti
It does serve a purpose for those unwilling to take the "whole hog" leap and move to Nashville, LA etc. to tout their own songs (and obviously pay for the service)
Trouble is, you might consider it a "guaranteed hit" but the Taxi reviewer might not - and either one of you could be right/wrong. Also, if you look at the testimonials for Taxi, they can take credit for placing very few "hit" songs. I think they do better at TV/movie sync placements but that's just a guess based on what I've read.
And that is the crux of it really
First of all there are VERY few "guaranteed hit songs" around, which is why there is so much dross released - this can work in favour of the unknown songwriter as the industry is actually crying out for hits so if someone does write one it can "get through" but it has to be beyond good (and that is "good" in a commercial writing sense - not necessarily what many people would class as a good/classic song!)
It is also a VERY closed shop to place "hit" songs as the top writers already have first dibs (and obviously some artists write themselves!)
Whilst I agree that there could be a difference of opinion of what could be a "hit song" (and tastes differ) I do believe they are obvious when you hear one, regardless of whether you like it or not
If I was an A&R person listening to Gangnam Style, Call Me Maybe, All About The Bass, Pompeii etc. I would have known these were going to be huge from a first listen
It is tracks like this (both writing and production) that need to be submitted to step through the gates and get a toe in the door
QuoteThey are pitching for very "current" opportunities - which basically translates as "formulaic pop"
Yes. there is a pop category, but there are just as many opps for country, adult contemp, rock, you name it genre. And I agree after listening to the samples they are ALL formulaic in their respective genres. As far as "current" I have noticed some very generic opps keep resurfacing - to me it says the buyer just says "keep a look-out for me", or maybe just "yeah - send me this type of song and I might listen to it". As the subscriber gets no feedback on Taxi's success (whether they bid your song or not) there is no real way of telling how "solid" these opps are.
IMHO the genres don't really matter - I still firmly believe that they are looking for "formulaic pop" - whether it be rock, a/c, country etc. you need to be writing to tight structures, well trodden (cliche?) themes, stock phrases, nonsence word hooks (na nas and oohs)
Anything "too different"/creative is likely to simply be ignored as the decision makers are "business men" and only care about making $$$ and don't care about "creativity"
They think what will sell tomorrow is what sold well yesterday so the classic mantra is: "be different, but not too different"
I do agree that this does not really benefit "music" or reward creative songwriters but that is the world of commercial pitching
There are other opportunities though so don't be put off pitching - it is just about finding the right opportunities
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All i can say is thank god for places like the Forum then. If "they" just want to keep pumping out the same old rubbish, song after song, then i'd rather keep my money in my pocket and listen to interesting songs by everyday folk. Okay, they might not have the life polished out of them, be autotuned to plasticity, or follow the latest Youtube overnight trend, but at least there is still an element of honesty in them.
One thing is for sure, there's always someone out there selling dreams for crazy prices. In fact, if anyone wants me to send their song to Richard Branson, send me £100. If you want me to try twice send me £180. No guarantees. But keep sending me your songs and money.
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''The downside is that if they are promising to pitch everything (and they should if you are paying hundreds of dollars) they will potentially be pitching some absolute dross
Would this harm their reputation and therefore your chances?
Would they take people’s money and then decide not to pitch terrible songs?''
Boydie i doubt they would pitch anything to anyone of any value that they knew would reflect badly on themselves and potentially ruin a good contact....whether they would take some ones money and then do nothing with it is another question.......as to my situ,if i did choose to use them at some stage at least they are the ones who produced the songs they would be pitching ...so their rep is on the line.
I was reading a blog the other day ,and the guy said,you get an A&R man, he has two great songs, one from a known songwriter with hits and the other is an unknown from Minnesota.....
he wants to pitch to an artist he knows...does he offer the song from the know songwriter,that they know or the unknown and raise some eyebrows.....risking, his rep,maybe this guys losing his edge! so the unknowns gets passed on....the obvious point being, good industry people will not forward 'dross' :) , or take big risks with their contacts.
@Paulski ....i'm sure they can.. http://www.awritersparadise.com/clients.html .....
Yes if we all had a lot of money,it would be great,but we don't..i had a war chest which is nearly gone now......i've taken the plunge and the risk!....but it's difficult to get anywhere with out cost.
Like i said i read up-on Taxi..and the others,and decided against them....with Stacy, yes per song it's not cheap.....but he does have a studio in Nashville,as been in bands of well known artists..worked for Sony,been producing for years......he's got to be fairly well known.....so probably a better bet...with Nashville type music?
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I am not knocking Stacy at all, and the quality/cost of the stuff you have had done is top notch
I am sure they wouldn't pitch a badly produced/recorded song - and would offer to re-work it ;)
But I would be interested to know if they would pitch a "badly written" song? - ie would they "screen them" like TAXI
I agree about the industry being hard to break through against the established writers - who also have studios, session singers, collaborators, session musicians "on tap"; not to mention the contacts!
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I am not knocking Stacy at all, and the quality/cost of the stuff you have had done is top notch
I am sure they wouldn't pitch a badly produced/recorded song - and would offer to re-work it ;)
But I would be interested to know if they would pitch a "badly written" song? - ie would they "screen them" like TAXI
I agree about the industry being hard to break through against the established writers - who also have studios, session singers, collaborators, session musicians "on tap"; not to mention the contacts!
Simple answer is i don't know , except to reiterate what i've said,,,which is basically i think it's suicide for any professional to pitch stuff that's below par....it reflects badly on them,wastes the valuable time of publishers,supervisors and labels.....BUT if they would happily take your money is another thing..maybe, their in a business.........i will say also.that when i correspond with him on my productions...he seems honest and upfront, and advices me on what might need a tweak or two .......he is also a musician and fellow songwriter....i think he cares ;)
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I had about 20 songs with 'A Song Paradise' (the dedicated company they were setting up to just handle licensing to artists) but the web provider lost the entire web design and had no backup so the whole site went down the pan.
That's why it's only a small one page effort on 'A Writers Paradise'.
It looked really good too. I got one license from it.
They never bothered resetting it up though so I left.
Whether it was money or another reason, I don't know but it makes me think 'how serious are they?'
Nice people. They should set the new site up again. It was a pro job.
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I have nothing of real value to add to this conversation at the moment but it does make very interesting reading. So I would like to say thanks to Paul for taking the plunge and letting us all know of his experience and it doesn't come across as a good advert for TAXI.
But after watching a BBC programme of Bob Harris in Nashville last week (uk only probably) I don't know why we all don't move there, just turn up, play a couple of songs to someone (not sure who but if they drive a 50's Cadillac that's a good start), decide if you want to be authentic or mainstream (east side of town to be authentic), walk into a famous persons house, play a couple of songs, jam along with them and all your dreams will be answered....sorted!!!
Now back to reality!!! ;D ;D
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Hey,
I'm a plain, white, overweight singer/songwriter who can't play an instrument. My best song is just me and a piano player. No arrangement, no band, no polish, no auto-tune............and my name is Adele.
M
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Hey,
I'm a plain, white, overweight singer/songwriter who can't play an instrument. My best song is just me and a piano player. No arrangement, no band, no polish, no auto-tune............and my name is Adele.
M
Well , when you have Adele's or one or two other's sheer quality,,in her case ,her voice.....all these wonderful people the rest of us would be happy with, if just knew we existed....will beat a path to your door ;D
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I'm in Montydogs corner on this one and you forgot to add that her best song is a cover.
I still believe Adele wouldn't have got as much recognition as she has if Dermot thingy on XFactor hadn't introduced Rebecca Ferguson singing an Adele song. Of course it was a cover of Zimmy but most of the public wouldn't have known that. Rebecca done a great version but of course the audience wanted the so called original so Adele got the big boost and recognition and the rest is history.
Just my thoughts, I'm sure otherwise will think differently ;D
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Well i think she would still be mega-famous..but hype is what the industry seems to thrive on......this is a bit off topic really?
What's the best way to get your work noticed,published........firstly> it has to be above average ..Secondly > someone with some power as to believe in it.....that gets you to first base..
I've really come to believe that the step up that leads to a money deal of some sort is hard, very hard to achieve ....getting a deal like Ellie Goulding got for eg,involved a lot of elements coming together at the right time,,Looks-songwriting skills-musicianship-being relevant-right type of music etc.......but shes an artist,and thats something different to what some of us are trying to achieve .
If you step off the relative safety of the Forum and put yourself out there, it's going to cost !....pro-demo's ,pitching,paying for this and that,,,Membership to collection agencies etc........but at least social media is free....and in the end maybe your best asset.
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had to come in on this
its the ADELE thing that got me, songsthatcry is so right just to have a vocal like hers is a gift
let alone what she writes she is incredible in my eyes
but i do think that these artists do get where they get through the special school / academy
they all seem to be put through ADELE / LILLY ALLAN / AMY WINEHOUSE
i think they all went to the same place so success could be the taught thing
i also think that the winners of these big song writing comps also come from academies too
WHAT CHANCE THE UNKNOWN ARTISTS
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Benjo, you forgot to include Leona Lewis on your list :)
I have no beef with Adele and if you enjoy her music then great but with a quick search and a Wikipedia result (which is frightening I know :-[) she is only listed with a writing credit on 10 songs and if she can't play an instrument as said well incredible is not a word I would use but we are all different.
And I agree songsthatcry, unless you are very skilled (not me) then home studio recording will not be up to the standard of a pro demo but what it does do, along with posting on forums, is give people the chance to knock their songs into shape before maybe splashing the cash. And as shown on this thread people are prepared to invest and I appreciate them sharing their experiences good or bad so we can all make informed choices.
Are we sort of back on track with this thread now? :)
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The fact still remains that the industry is still actively looking for HIT songs
Not good songs, not even "great" songs, but HIT songs that are going to sell and get radio play
You still need to get through the other barriers but if you are not getting good feedback/interest in your songs in the area you want to write in then you simply need to write better songs until you do
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Umm.. Adele's voice is like an instrument, she can do something with lyrics few others can..and yes we are back on topic. ;)
@Boydie your correct, that's what their really looking for all the time...that's what can make a writer rich, but for the most part a writer will be happy just to get published with the hope of a synch deal on a fairly minor tv show or something. :P
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A few additional things worth mentioning about Adele. Having been to Brit School she had some pretty good contacts within the major labels. Those labels (and therefore publishers) started taking a very strong interest in her in 2005 because of both her voice and songwriting abilities. The music business was in a much stronger position then and there was still something called 'artist development' - an initiative now dead and replaced by something called 'X Factor' and 'The Voice'.
The point above about her success following Rebecca Ferguson was not correct, she'd already received considerable chart success (inc gold albums) prior to this.
Could this happen again? Sure but it's a mix of connections, package (songs, voice, brand). However, My concern looking at the charts is just how many songs are written by a very small number of hugely influential songwriter teams (ie the teams under Max Martin, Dr Luke, Benny Blanco, etc.)
But (really) back on topic, yes your demo's have got to sound pretty freaking amazing and in a releasable condition to have any chance of attracting the ears of publishers now IMO.
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This is the publisher that took mine and Flossies song....have a listen to their library . it's not like every song is amazing! but i imagine getting a deal out of them for all your songs as a published songwriter is pretty hard.
http://www.lyrichouseco.com/
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Did the song end up in a tv show/advert? I seem to recall Alan having one on Hollyoaks (i think it was that.)
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Did the song end up in a tv show/advert? I seem to recall Alan having one on Hollyoaks (i think it was that.)
Not yet ;) i think it's all about timing.
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Well, you never know. It's good to hear some folks are at least getting some attention - gives the rest of us hope - though i fear i will be waiting forever and a day. But nevermind - i take comfort from merely annoying the neighbours.
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I think i read about 2/3% of songs pitched to pubs get a deal,and about 5% of them gets some sort of paying cut, so it's not easy and more than likely they will get dropped at some stage!....but it's milestone so to speak that's worth reaching....like i said listen to what these companies pick up on and take a look at your music ,see if there some changes that can be made.