The Songwriter Forum - songwriting reviews, tips and chat
Songwriter Forum => Feedback on Works in Progress => Topic started by: Dave Bradley on July 03, 2013, 08:21:16 AM
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The lyrical ideas are fairly straightforward - life, death, ageing, human rights, freedom...usual stuff...heheheh.
https://soundcloud.com/sciencebase/too-old-to-die-young
Too Old to Die Young
I don't want to leave
Don't want to pass it by
I think about it every single night
Too old to die young,
Too free to belong to anyone
Too right to be wrong
I know that I can face it
When I think about your rights
I know that I can take it
All the way up to the fight
Too far have I gone
Stepping miles without a smile for anyone
Stand beyond the sun
Too young for not trying
Too old to cry over dying
Staring back at me is that old setting sun
We'd live forever in the spring
The summer's moving on, And, everything
leads back to a fall
Too old to die young,
Too free to belong to anyone
Too right to be wrong
I don't want to leave
Don't want to pass it by
I think about it every single night
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Nice one, good solo and the bass underpinning it. I'd like to hear more rhythm guitar, not just higher in the mix, but more sustain, more bite or something! What's there is good, I just want more!
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The pre-demo mix was way over the top with overdrive and distortion, but I think you're right it probably needs to match the solo sound more...what do others think?
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Okay...given the guitar a facelift and remixed the vocals a bit.
https://soundcloud.com/sciencebase/too-old-to-die-young
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I like the song and the vocals are great but I do feel you have mix problems here not just with levels but some eq tweaking is necessary as I cant really distinguish the separate instruments very well, and that's a crying shame and this is a really great song.
Still, its nothing that cant be remedied.
If you want to, you can zip up the individual wav files and send em to me and I will remix it for you and see if we cant get a good clear sound for you.
Allan.
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I'll have another play myself, this was the heavy mix. Maybe overdid it with the guitar overdrive/distortion and muddied everything. But, thanks for your offer! ;-)
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Okies, FYI main points I noticed were:
1. Your forum avatar has hair, your soundcloud avatar does not. ;D
2. Vocal buried in the mix
3. Drums all but disappeared at the 3 sec mark
4 Bass hard to hear
5 Rhythym Guitar overpowering
Hope that helps, verb sounded good and sounds of the guitars sounded appropriate.
Allan.
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Okies, FYI main points I noticed were:
1. Your forum avatar has hair, your soundcloud avatar does not. ;D
2. Vocal buried in the mix
3. Drums all but disappeared at the 3 sec mark
4 Bass hard to hear
5 Rhythym Guitar overpowering
Hope that helps, verb sounded good and sounds of the guitars sounded appropriate.
Allan.
Point 1 (Hint...it's a wig folks ;-)
Point 2-5 - I think in bringing up the guitars from the original mix other stuff lost
I've done a bit more to this in terms of mixing, hopefully balanced better, much still to do, no doubt.
Any critique on the words and music itself?
https://soundcloud.com/sciencebase/too-old-to-die-young
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hey,
WOW I really enjoyed it, I was amazed when it was pointed out that you had a wig on
I had to take a second look, I really thought you were a young band
that's how good I thought you sounded, I do think allan has offered some great advice
but apart from couple of little things I loved it good piece mate well done tony...
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Hah! Yeah, it was a photo snapped at a wedding a couple of years ago, got one of my 18 year old son with a clown wig and nose, daughter and the missus pulling faces.
I'm definitely not a young band...not a band at all...just me on vox, guitars and bass with virtual drums and a virtually bald head...
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HEY,
well credit to you very nice take care man tony...
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Thanks Tony
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Have been working on using James' tips to remix this song a little...not sure what I'm going to do when the FabFilter trial runs out, it's excellent, but costs ;-)
Tip #2 is here - http://forums.songstuff.com/blog/186/entry-1391-how-to-make-your-songs-sound-better-in-3-easy-steps-part-2/
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allright, another cool song on this forum!!! nice song
mix sounds harsh and not balanced, volumewise and stereowise, to be honest (but, hey look who is talking ;D)
but a great song
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allright, another cool song on this forum!!! nice song
mix sounds harsh and not balanced, volumewise and stereowise, to be honest (but, hey look who is talking ;D)
but a great song
Glad you liked the song. That's the important bit for me. I'm learning with the old mixing lark, but would actually prefer to do the singing-playing part and have someone else mix it perfectly ;-) That said, it doesn't sound harsh or unbalanced with my studio headphones...I think a lot is lost when one mixes down from the DAW to mp3, or even ogg, and then again when SoundCloud compresses our files and again when they're rendered by the listener's system. Not making excuses, but there seems to be a big difference between what I hear when mixing and what SoundCloud pumps out for me.
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Hi, I just listened to about 3 versions of this through the links above - I think (well they sounded different to me anyway). Early ones seemed to have the rhythm guitar coming and going a lot, either with stereo panning around or some kind of tremolo effect it sounded like. The latest version sounded much better.
This is a great song with a good chord progression and the solo was especially good - pretty good vox too.
nice one
GTB (normally I loiter in the lyrics section)
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Hi
Thanks GTB, pure coincidence, just listened to your latest track on SC before heading to the forum...
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Hi, really really liking this, I think its the favourite of yours to date.
Upbeat, melodic with really clear production. Liked the guitar and solo..
Slight hint of Squeeze especially vocals ;-)
Not sure why its in WIP sound finished to me.
Simple works.
:) :)
Neil
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Thanks Neil! It was the mix that made me put it in WiP. I as quite pleased with it structurally, melodically and harmonically. Always appreciate the Squeeze references, Gifford and Tilbrook truly the Lennon and McCartney of their generation, and they did that "octave" thing with their voices, which I almost accidentally did in this arrangement :-)
That phrase "too old to die young has been knocking around for a while, and one I've trotted out in late-night conversations a couple of times (not I think I'm there yet). The other phrase - too old to cry over dying I heard someone say a couple of weeks ago...intrigued me, as a middle-aged fart...hence the coupling of those two in my lyrics...
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Guitar solo at 1:07 is a beauty. I think you need to feature that more prominently in the song and less emphasis on the grungy rhythm guitar sound which I personally don't like. I'm having trouble getting around that and being objective about the song. Great vocals.
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Yeah, the overdrive has been up and down on the guitar...you caught it on an up in the remix cycle ;-) I'll maybe post a subtler version and boulster the solo so that there both online to compare...
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Okay...I've pulled the distortion right back and went for something more akin to an Andy Summers Police ca '79 sound, but without all the chorus. I also did some stereo widening on my backing vocals (doubled the track, pushed one all the way to the left the other to the right and nudged one track a fraction of a second ahead, trick learnt from my old stereo guitar FX unit ;-)
This latest mix - as a wav file - now replaces the earlier incarnation
https://soundcloud.com/sciencebase/too-old-to-die-young
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A thought re the earlier comments about the mix - I would be included to upload a WAV direct too soundcloud rather than have double compression.
And the Squeeze reference wasn't just the octave vocals, you have tone and phrasing that reminders me of Glenn T :) :)
Neil
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Ah, okay...is that standard then wav on SoundCloud, I assume they'd force a compressed file...never actually checked.
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Dont think so, it just takes longer to upload, I believe your account is restricted by total time rather than file size... N
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Ah, okay. Thanks for the tip.
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New mix uploaded
https://soundcloud.com/sciencebase/too-old-to-die-young-1
Less guitar distortion, bass vocal harmonies panned right out with a little delay on one for that stereo feeling...uploaded as a wav
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I seen both. If you want to move a thread you'd better ask a Mod.
:)
Neil
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Okay. Not to worry. Unless I were somehow putting this out on vinyl, I think it's probably always going to be a work in progress. Really appreciate all the advice and tips so far for this song! I'm going to make the version with the toned down guitar and the stereo wide backing vocals the current "final" mix:
https://soundcloud.com/sciencebase/too-old-to-die-young
Thanks again, hope you enjoy the latest version :-) Out on limited edition red vinyl 10" colour picture disc with a gatefold sleeve some time soon ;-)
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Nice one, good solo and the bass underpinning it. I'd like to hear more rhythm guitar, not just higher in the mix, but more sustain, more bite or something! What's there is good, I just want more!
I agree with the above message, and have nothing too add. Well Done Sciencebase.
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Thanks Keith, the version you heard has been through various changes, there was far too mch bite at one point, I clawed it back, it's now a personal compromise between wanting to thrash and balancing with my vocal style...I might tweak it again some time, but I'm happy with it as it is for now. Thanks for your thoughts ;-)
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listened to your latest effort! some pretty cool guitar work in there mind that solo after a minute or so!!
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Thanks!
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Hi SB,
I think you've written a really good song here, there are mixing issues but you can iron those out at a later date, what's important is you've got a great concept, a strong melody and the song moves a long nicely. Keep going with the mixing, go back to old songs and with your new knowledge tweak them, it can make such a difference. I've got loads to learn but this was my first 'big' recording:
https://soundcloud.com/hewood29/sob-story
I think I've improved! :-[
So don't let your productions hold back your songs get googling and youtubing (very useful).
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Thanks for listening...yeah, I've got plans to remix the dozen or so songs I've written and recorded during the last year. I didn't think this one was so bad. What "issues" do you hear? It sounds pretty good in my DAW on headphones...but maybe on monitors it's not so good?
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Like this. Moves along well and is catchy with some great little major/minor chord changes.
Nice one.
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Like this. Moves along well and is catchy with some great little major/minor chord changes.
Nice one.
Thanks Alan, yes, I was quite pleased how this one turned out. Hopefully evocative and poignant words...eternals of the human condition sadly...
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Might have a chance to perform this and a few other originals live next month...scary thought...
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Be keen to know what you guys think of the lyrics of this song, in particular the two phrases:
"Too old to die young" and "Too old to cry over dying"
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Thanks for all the listens and critique folks, shall I mothball this post or are there any more nits people have with this final version/mix? Happy to hear them, as always B-)
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At long last, had a chance to perform this one live, just vocal and acoustic, athough fellow muso at our session joined in with some harmonies and a bit of a flute solo...didn't dare reveal what the original inspiration was as it sounds so silly now...
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I'm definitely not a young band...not a band at all...just me on vox, guitars and bass with virtual drums and a virtually bald head...
Now... if you are "virtually bald", would that be like "virtual baldness?"
And would "virtual baldness" mean you are only bald on the internet?"
That wouldn't be so bad. :O)
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Unfortunately not...I could be hirsute on the internet.
Of course, virtual doesn't mean online it was hijacked from optics where it is used to mean an image tha cannot be projected, but its definition in English is "almost or nearly as described" ;-)
Either way I don't really have much hair on my head.
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Wow! 1005 views on this post. That's great. Thanks everyone for listening and all the comments.
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I would have liked to have heard the different mixes progress as I think the latest mix is pretty much there
I really like the slightly "dirty" retro sound on the drums - it gives the song a really warm and familiar feel from the get go!
This also sets up the feel of a "live" performance, which I think suits the track perfectly
The guitar solo is absolutely perfect for the track IMHO - both the tone and phrasing
I really like the lyric and sentiment - the "too old to die young" really does jump out of the track
I would usually want the title to be the first or last line of the chorus or last line of the verse - but this phrase is so strong it jumps out even though it is in the middle of a verse, a brave choice and one that really pays off in this song, a good example of "breaking the rules" and it just "working"
The only comment about the song I would make is that I think the sections could be broken up a little more - at the moment it sounds like one long chorus (not always a bad thing!) but I think a bit more focus on the arrangement would give the track a little more space and scope to build
There are signs that you have tried to do this of this - eg the drum fills, fx being introduced for the lead vocal during the pre-chorus - but I think you could really take a scalpel to the arrangement
eg - the first verse just drums, bass, the little guitar licks & vocals - bring another guitar in for the chorus - drop one out again for a verse, bring more guitars back in for the next chorus etc. etc.
I think another texture would also help to really lift the track - eg a piano or acoustic guitar - that is playing in a higher register
There are a few spots where the doubled vocal is a bit clunky with the lead vocal but this is getting ultra niggly and not worth worrying about unless you are looking for perfection
The end section has a very "George Harrison" feel to me - a la "While My Guitar Gently Weeps"
There are also some particularly nice bass guitar runs - but they are a little lost in the mix
All in all though this is a great example of an excellent song with a good production, which has been designed to "support" the song
If this was your intention (which I believe it was) then you have hit the bullseye ;D
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Boydie, fantastic review much appreciated! Once again lots to think about. I think I have a couple of dozen songs that I now need to revisit taking into account the various pieces of advice you and others have offered over the last year or so. Thanks!
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I really like this song - great hook in the lyric - great melody - great voice. Nice guitar work. I know there is a section here (in this forum) about production and what I know about production you could write on a grain of sand using double line spacing - but I wonder if this is a little over produced. The song is strong - strip it back and let it shine through - would love to hear a simple guitar vocal version of this - I think it would be really really strong. Be lucky. BTB
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I really like this song - great hook in the lyric - great melody - great voice. Nice guitar work. I know there is a section here (in this forum) about production and what I know about production you could write on a grain of sand using double line spacing - but I wonder if this is a little over produced. The song is strong - strip it back and let it shine through - would love to hear a simple guitar vocal version of this - I think it would be really really strong. Be lucky. BTB
Glad you liked it. I don't know an awful lot about production either, not sure I could over-produce something if I tried but...funny you should say that...I did do an 1+1 version of this already, after performing it live a couple of times. But...I cannot find the file right now...I'll try and post it if/when I find it!
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Okay...I found the unplugged version I did of this back in July. It's not perfect, but I think the lyrics are closer to what I wanted them to be in the version I posted here originally...
Here's the private link on SoundCloud
https://soundcloud.com/sciencebase/too-old-to-die-young-acoustic/s-qlgFt
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yes shows what a strong song it is I think. I like it - best of luck with it I hope to hear a finished version soon. BTB
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yes shows what a strong song it is I think. I like it - best of luck with it I hope to hear a finished version soon. BTB
The "finishing" of this song has slipped down the list of priorities, I'm afraid. Newer stuff now in the mix. But, comments and critique have all been logged for the big remix of 2014 of my best 10 or so tracks.
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Catchy tune - I can tell you spent alot of time on it! Keep it up!
Only suggestion I have to it overdub a muted guitar strum, reggae style, to enphasize the 2nd and 4th beats of the bar. It could also be just a muted strum without any notes - just guitar percussive noise.
Rock on!
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Catchy tune - I can tell you spent alot of time on it! Keep it up!
Only suggestion I have to it overdub a muted guitar strum, reggae style, to enphasize the 2nd and 4th beats of the bar. It could also be just a muted strum without any notes - just guitar percussive noise.
Rock on!
Well...that's an idea, I just got a cajón so this could very well be redone with a more organic percussion line altogether...