[habiTat]

Hi peeps,

I'm settling in to the type of recording and music style I'd like to pursue, my question is, what type of mic is being used (link below) to record the guitar. This is how I'd like to record quite a few of my songs. I have a condenser mic for recording vocal and if I play and sing at the same time I'm having to use that single mic to pick up everything. I want more control and clarity over the guitar recording and lots of artists seem to have this type of set up. I'm not concerned with the exact make and model, just the type of mic so I can try to get one. I tried this configuration with a cheap (very cheap) condenser mic for the guitar but I just got a horrible hiss and the recording was very low volume (rubbish mic).
ps I know there are two in this video, just something similar would be good
All advice greatly appreciated

nAxDA&index=1

Cheers

hab..

[James Nighthawk]

Hey Hab

The main vocal mic and cradle looks an awful lot like the Neumann TLM 103 which I use A LOT in the studio. Of course, I think it shares its chassis with the classic U87 Correction - The U87 looks nothing like this! Side note - I WANT ONE!

http://www.dv247.com/microphones/neumann-tlm-103-nickel-large-diaphragm-cardioid-condenser-microphone--23188

The other two I can't work out. You may have to wait for Ramsy here, he is the mic junky! I wouldn't be surprised if the one pointing diagonally at the guitar is what is know as a "Shotgun" mic. These are very specific mics that through some trickery only pic up sound in a small field of "vision". Hence aiming at the soundhole.

However, to be more help to you, tell us exactly what you want to achieve?

If the aim is the be able to record like this track, with vocal and guitar is one go, then you only need two mics. One for the vocal, one for the guitar (There will be spill of course, and you will have to experiment with positioning to avoid phasing issues)

As such, tell us what you have, and your budget for going forward.

Audio Technica AT3035
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/wired_mics/53b8b7998922fb02/index.html

This mic I have had for nearly 10 years. It is discontinued and replaced with the AT2035 (which is apparently very similar). It is amazingly good for the price you pay. Very low noise and rather natural sounding. The Neumann is better, of course, but for £130!!

The current replacement AT2035
http://www.dv247.com/microphones/audio-technica-at2035-large-diaphragm-side-address-microphone--58608

Forum on the two:
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/378617-2035-vs-3035-a.html

 

[Ramshackles]

Of course you want a U87!!
I'm building a 2nd one starting next week

The mics recording the acoustic guitar:

The larger one looks like a Royer R121 or R122 - a ribbon mic.

The other one is a bit harder to work out. It is certainly a small diaphragm condenser mic. Most likely a Neumann KM184 or KM185, but there are plenty of cheaper SDC's out there that copy the same body design...but as the other two mic's are of very high quality, my money would be on the Neumann.

JN is dead on with the TLM103, although it does share the same chassis as the TLM102 and a similar chassis to the classic M149

[Ramshackles]

PS my current combo for doing acoustic and vocals together would be a Shure sm81 on the acoustic (or a pair) and my 'Ramshackle' u87 on vocals.

The shure KSM32 is a cheaper condenser that gets a fair few plaudits. JN's audio technica are good for the money also.

[Alan Starkie]

Brand-wise I don't know but I suspect the three mics are:

Vocal - Large diaphragm condenser

Sound hole - Ribbon mic

Directional - Small diaphragm condenser mic

I use a large diaphragm condenser valve mic that used to be around £700.

You can pick them up nowadays for around £300 - £350 :

Superlux CM-H8D large diaphragm tube condenser mic

I use it for vocals/acoustics but everything sounds great through it.

Alan.

[habiTat]

Ah ok, Small Diaphragm Condenser Mic, got it.

@James, yep, I want to record like this where possible, then add other tracks afterwards if needed.


Thanks guys, I'll do some research.

Just out of interest, will I need to run it through anything or can I go straight into the laptop?

My condenser mic has a built in audio interface and does have an input for an instrument but I can't seem to get it to run two separate channels into the daw. I can use that mic plus a standard audio in on the laptop though, that works for recording two channels at once. It worked with my crappy mic, but sounded crap because the mic is crap.

[Ramshackles]

Ah ok, Small Diaphragm Condenser Mic, got it.

@James, yep, I want to record like this where possible, then add other tracks afterwards if needed.


Thanks guys, I'll do some research.

Just out of interest, will I need to run it through anything or can I go straight into the laptop?

My condenser mic has a built in audio interface and does have an input for an instrument but I can't seem to get it to run two separate channels into the daw. I can use that mic plus a standard audio in on the laptop though, that works for recording two channels at once. It worked with my crappy mic, but sounded crap because the mic is crap.

Those mic's need to go through a preamp (always) and then through an audio interface/A/D converter if you are recording digitally.
Reminds me of a question I wanted to ask James Nighthawk actually...

Condenser mic's like the Neumanns in the video (and all condensers) need powering...most preamps will supply 'phantom power (48V DC)', but you should always check when you buy one.

I've almost finished building a 'budget' 8 channel preamp actually...

Many audio interfaces have preamps built into them...most of the stuff by focusrite does..

Ribbon mic's (like the other one in the pic) generally do not need powering (and plugging them in while phantom power is being supplied can seriously damage them) and they often need preamps that can supply higher gain as their output is quite low. Some ribbon mic's are 'active' designs meaning they DO need powering..


(PS the 'modify' on your above post was just because I clicked modify instead of quote...oops!)

[habiTat]

Ah ok, so it might be more of an outlay than I'd hoped. Firstly because I'd need to obviously buy the mic, preamp and audio interface but also because, due to my current mic having the interface built in, I'll probably need a new condenser mic for vocals, as I don't believe Ill be able to run both a new audio interface and my existing mic into the daw at the same time.

Hmm..this is my current mic, any ideas how I could get it working running a second mic through its 'instrument in' channel?  I really can't afford to be buying all that stuff.

http://www.samsontech.com/samson/products/microphones/usb-microphones/gtrack/

[Boydie]

Unfortunately it does get expensive when chasing "the sound in your head"

BUT - if you buy wisely and weigh up which bits will meet your needs now, and which bits you will need to buy with an eye on the future you should be ok

Eg a 2 input audio interface would probably be ok for what you are doing but I would recommend going with 4 as a minimum so you can play with stereo stuff in the future - Focusrite seem pretty decent, as well as Roland and Tascam

I got an M-Audio fast track ultra and whilst it is great I would probably look at a different manufacturer if I were to replace it

As for mics I have been VERY impressed with the Se range of mics - excellent value for money IMHO

I am not sure about setting your mic for another instrument but I do not think you would regret buying a "proper" audio interface as this is key to daw recording for nicer pre-amps, higher quality and (probably most inportantly) good drivers for better stability and lower latency

Take a browse on the dv247 website - there are always good bundle deals for audio interface + mic

[Ramshackles]

Unfortunately you wouldn't be able to plug a mic into the instrument input. As it is designed for instruments, the imepdance won't be matched to the level of mics and you would end up with a lot of noise.
This thread has an example of a mic plugged into an instrument input:
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/can-you-hear-this/

[James Nighthawk]

Firstly

@Ramsy
What is the question? I think you forgot to ask it unless I haven't read properly

Secondly

I have a 24channel focusrite soundcard with preamps. A Saffire Pro. Now discontinued but newer (better I guess) models out there. The pre amps are beautiful. Everything you have heard me post has been recorded on this (except "letting Go" as that was an old demo). Focusrite have good word of mouth for a reason.

Even tho the first one I had caught fire! (Long story, they sorted it!)

I hear some big artists recorded using the saffire pro (Jamiriqoi or however it is spelt)

I would avoid M-Audio. I had a 10channel inbuilt audio card from them. High noise and "clicked" for no reason on some recordings. This is the processing brain of your sound system. Do not skimp here!!!

[habiTat]

Unfortunately you wouldn't be able to plug a mic into the instrument input. As it is designed for instruments, the imepdance won't be matched to the level of mics and you would end up with a lot of noise.
This thread has an example of a mic plugged into an instrument input:
http://www.songwriterforum.co.uk/recording/can-you-hear-this/

Oh drats 

Cheers Ram, I wonder if that also explains the noise I get when my second (cheap) mic is plugged directly into the laptop mic socket. I thought this would be a cheap (free) work around to get the guitar mic'd but the recorded audio is quiet (and has too much noise when turned up in the daw afterwards)

This is the cheap mic

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Qtx-Microphone-Stereo-Electret/dp/B000L97X4Q/ref=sr_1_25?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1362952406&sr=1-25

[Ramshackles]

Firstly

@Ramsy
What is the question? I think you forgot to ask it unless I haven't read properly

Secondly

I have a 24channel focusrite soundcard with preamps. A Saffire Pro. Now discontinued but newer (better I guess) models out there. The pre amps are beautiful. Everything you have heard me post has been recorded on this (except "letting Go" as that was an old demo). Focusrite have good word of mouth for a reason.

Even tho the first one I had caught fire! (Long story, they sorted it!)

I hear some big artists recorded using the saffire pro (Jamiriqoi or however it is spelt)

I would avoid M-Audio. I had a 10channel inbuilt audio card from them. High noise and "clicked" for no reason on some recordings. This is the processing brain of your sound system. Do not skimp here!!!

Yeah I forgot! But you kind of answered it here...
At some point in the future I'm gonna want to upgrade my interface to 24 analogue I/O...as you have a big mackie desk I figure you must have that kind of number of I/O and wanted to know my options...
But as far as I understood for the saffire...they seem to have a maxmimum of 8 analogue ins/outs and the rest are digital? So I would still need some addiontal ADC/DAC's

I'm also not too keen on having something with built in preamps...(of course, if it doesn't make it any more expensive/complicated...whatever)...



Habitat...
The laptop mic socket would/should be made with the right input impedance. BUT it won't provide phantom power (unless that mic has batteries in it or something...) and mic inputs on computers are generally shockingly bad amplifiers with bad noise anyway, as it's not so important on a computer (for casual users, it's good enough for skype and more extensive users would generally either have a conferencing system setup...or be doing audio stuff and have other equipment...)...
I also imagine the noise level of that mic is not great, although even on cheap mics the noise would be fairly low (if audible...)

[Ramshackles]

Oh...and to JN...in answering my own question, I guess what I would need is something like a pair of Lynx Aurora 16's and a PCI card (RME?)....BUT there has to be some solution that doesn't involve spending £4000!!!

[James Nighthawk]

The sound card I have has 8 analogue in. And two adat inputs. I have an adat rack of 8. This plugs into the saffire to give 8 more in, so sixteen in and 8 out. This is all I have ever needed. I see no situation for a studio my size where 16in and 8 out wouldn't suffice :-)

The sound card was about 650 and the adat another 200.

8 out is plenty if you think about it. You can use software to control levels. 8 out gives a stereo master and 6 monos for providing different mixes for drummer/vocal booth/ control room.

Sgt peppers was done on an 4 track, let us not forget ;-)