How Many?

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montydog

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« on: March 04, 2015, 01:20:58 AM »
Hi folks,

I thought I'd ask what the general cut off is for reviewing other peoples' songs when they don't have the courtesy to review yours?

Personally, mine is around 2 or 3 times. If the person I'm reviewing doesn't get the whole principle that the forum is based on by then, I will never review them again, Am I being over  harsh?.

M

« Last Edit: March 04, 2015, 07:56:03 AM by montydog »

Jambrains

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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2015, 08:15:14 AM »
No I don't think you are overly harsh (well maybe I would not say "never again", if the person starts reviewing my stuff I'd probably just forget about the whole thing). I think we have pretty much the same view on this. When I joined this forum I quickly understood that reviewing is about give and take so I
1) If someone review a song of mine I'll review one of theirs (if they have any reasonable new tracks up)
2) If I review someones song I kind of expect them to return the favor sooner or later. I'm not very rigid about this but I guess my breaking point is somewhere along a1:3-4 ratio or so.
I do understand that people may not always be able to return the favor right away due to other commitments but in the long run I'd expect the ratio to be more or less 1:1
I would not bother with someone you have a 1:16 ratio with, at least not until there are some signs that things are changing.
Just my 2 cents..

Boydie

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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2015, 08:19:22 AM »
Hmmm - that is an interesting point

My own personal philosophy is that I try to review everything on the front page, working from the bottom up, when I do my reviewing

I like to think that I then get to hear/review everything but I know things slip through - it just depends how busy I am

However, I do often "cherry pick" and review those that review others more often

The ones I might skip are those that relentlessly post a song every 2 weeks like they are rushing to meet a deadline - or they are posting a back catalogue - and only appear inbetween to post on their thread and not review others (except the occasional few reviews just prior to posting their own)

I know this is well within the "rules" but if time is short these are the ones I personally tend to skip if I am honest

I do go out of my way to review the "regulars" who I know put in a shift reviewing others and I also go out of my way to review newbies as I am always excited at the prospect of hearing some awesome new music

I get less bothered about the number of reviews I get as I know that the "regulars" will often post reviews on my songs and I find it more useful getting reviews from the members that understand me, what I am trying to do and whose opinion I trust and respect - I won't name names but there is a list of 10 or so that I particularly look out for - and I love the fact that different members of this list have different areas of expertise and genre preferences so I usually get a really rounded picture, which is worth soooooo much

This forum now forms such an integral part of my "workflow" I would be truly lost without it

When I was a newbie here I thought the number of reviews my song got was important - over time, and as I have got to know the wonderful people that hang out here, I have realised it is the "quality" of the reviews rather than the "quantity" that counts

That's my $0.02
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benjo

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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2015, 04:19:32 PM »

 HEY MONTY GOOD TOPIC

 and i fully agree with you on this it's just common sense
 and courtesy

         sorry if i've missed any by the way

Viscount Cramer & His Orchestra

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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2015, 06:38:09 PM »
I'm not the best reviewer on the site by any means but try to make time to listen - more than once - and comment (most of the time!). It isn't always easy to find the time so i can appreciate some periods of inactivity on the reviewing front from anybody.

However there are a few who show no interest at all in what others are doing and only here to promote themselves - and some of these do produce quality songs. We all know who they are.

No, you are not being over harsh. The forum wouldn't function at all if we all behaved in the same way. I set myself a limit the same as you Monty 2 or 3. After that I can't be bothered.

And it isn't just a question of tit for tat reviews. I understand that somebody may not want to comment on my type of song or doesn't like the look of my face or something. But not reviewing anything or making a token review of the first couple of songs on the page every time they post is indeed arrogant and lacking in community spirit.
Take it easy.

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Paulski

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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2015, 08:16:17 PM »
Hi Monty

Yeah - I agree it's a give/get environment and it's not just about improving the songs: its also about "we're all in this together" and support. Some people just don't give, or they give sparingly so, due to no-one's fault but their own don't get much back.  ;D ;D.
Like Boydie says, this forum has become part of my writing cycle and I look forward to hearing what others are up to as much as getting trusted feedback on my stuff.

There, now I've gone all teary-eyed  :'( :'(

Paul

Vintage54

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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2015, 08:45:31 PM »

        Hello everyone!
             Would love to post more comments on the song section, but two things stand in my way. Work, and the fact that some of the songs posted, i don't seem able to get. I'm useless with computers, and also limited with what i can download, especially on youtube. I spend more time on the lyrics section, but only because there's no limit to that side of things. That's all folks, thanks for dropping by.

                              Vintage54

James Nighthawk

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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2015, 10:02:27 PM »
I don't numerate this...

I get a feel for those that are givers and I review them when do my weekly/biweekly marathon catchup. As such, people that have posted many songs over the time I have been away will get one review. I try to give time more on reviews than sheer volume.

This does mean I am reviewing names I recognise. But, hey, this is a community!!
I am always adding to these names, mind  ;D

Newbies get one pass; other than those so patently dropping in to "share their band's new Hit" never to be seen again! Easily spotted by their phrasing...

Working in music means I don't want to turn this place into a chore. It is a wonderful forum for feedback from others like us that write and perform, away from my studio life.

I would personally say one song a month is more balanced, but I'd get shot down. This way I could review nearly everything. The board would move slower, but then people may be more careful what they post. Even from a "self-promotional" angle, this works better, as each song will have more of a life to circulate. And would avoid dry spells... But I am sure I am outnumbered here.

Bump to Boydies point... quality over quantity. I have had a dry spell prepping up my new album, but when I have posted I have seen all the regular crowd appear quickly on my songs. This is proof this forum is a meaningful bookmark for so many of us  ;D

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Marrianna

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« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2015, 10:24:26 PM »
Hi,

I have home and other commitments and can't spend as much time as I would like writing reviews. I have listened and read a lot more than I have been able to respond to but I have taken an interest, more than anyone could know.

Marrianna  :(




Marrianna

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« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2015, 12:41:51 AM »
Hi Monty

Yeah - I agree it's a give/get environment and it's not just about improving the songs: its also about "we're all in this together" and support. Some people just don't give, or they give sparingly so, due to no-one's fault but their own don't get much back.  ;D ;D.
Like Boydie says, this forum has become part of my writing cycle and I look forward to hearing what others are up to as much as getting trusted feedback on my stuff.

There, now I've gone all teary-eyed  :'( :'(

Paul



Hello again,

Thankyou for your information, Paul. 

As I am really quite new on here, I realise now that I didn't understand the emphasis on reviewing people's songs and recordings to earn return reviews. (I didn't jump in straight away as I wrote some music and a lyric for people in the collaboration section first).

I thought it was more about sharing songs we have written, listening, enjoying or offering suggestions if we wanted to. I thought we could say something about whatever song we happened to listen to. :) I listened to a song at random today and I really enjoyed it. There could be a star system or a like which could be clicked on so that the writer knows the song was listened to and enjoyed. I haven't had time to analyze it and think it would spoil it to do that, for me anyway. I enjoyed it. Gold star is what I would give. :)

I am really sorry but I know I don't qualify to take part as the system is, for the reasons I gave in my last but one post.  :)

Marrianna



Paulski

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« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2015, 12:49:55 AM »
Hi Monty

Yeah - I agree it's a give/get environment and it's not just about improving the songs: its also about "we're all in this together" and support. Some people just don't give, or they give sparingly so, due to no-one's fault but their own don't get much back.  ;D ;D.
Like Boydie says, this forum has become part of my writing cycle and I look forward to hearing what others are up to as much as getting trusted feedback on my stuff.

There, now I've gone all teary-eyed  :'( :'(

Paul



Hello again,

Thankyou for your information, Paul. 

As I am really quite new on here, I realise now that I didn't understand the emphasis on reviewing people's songs and recordings to earn return reviews. (I didn't jump in straight away as I wrote some music and a lyric for people in the collaboration section first).

I thought it was more about sharing songs we have written, listening, enjoying or offering suggestions if we wanted to. I thought we could say something about whatever song we happened to listen to. :) I listened to a song at random today and I really enjoyed it. There could be a star system or a like which could be clicked on so that the writer knows the song was listened to and enjoyed. I haven't had time to analyze it and think it would spoil it to do that, for me anyway. I enjoyed it. Gold star is what I would give. :)

I am really sorry but I know I don't qualify to take part as the system is, for the reasons I gave in my last but one post.  :)

Marrianna



Hey Marrianna
You certainly do qualify to be here!
You have a lot of experience in song writing from what I've seen and more importantly, you are willing to share it with others. Everybody here has time constraints and we disappear and reappear on the site for periods of time, but the important thing is when people participate like you do I'm always glad to see them return and posting again!
cheers from the cold-lands!
Paul

Marrianna

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« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2015, 01:02:32 AM »
Thanks, Paul,

Now I'm teary eyed  :'( but nah, I beg to differ. I feel embarrassed after saying anything on here about my songwriting experiences and just feel I should shut up and say nothing. ;D :)

Thankyou, anyway, and good luck with your song(s).
Keep warm,
Marrianna :)

Mystic Dreamer

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« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2015, 04:47:00 AM »
When I first searched for, and found, this songwriter's forum it was never my intent to have my songs reviewed by others in terms of critique.   And certainly not my intent to review their songs.  I mean, that's certainly a nice feature to have available, but it's not my main purpose for being here by far.

Neither is my purpose for being here to simply show off my songs looking for a pat on the back.

The reason I sought out a songwriter forum is to find like-minded musicians and artists who might be interested in exchanging ideas, and even better yet, potentially collaborating in the development of larger ensembles that would be impossible to create alone.

I'm very glad to see people collaborating on here.  That is very encouraging.  I even have songs that I wouldn't mind seeing done over by other people where I'm not even part of the fished ensemble.  I don't consider myself to be a professional musician or singer.  I'm willing to do both to the best of my ability, but if my amateur performances are holding other musicians back from attaining a higher level of performance, I would be happy to stand aside and let the song soar. Just watching it soar at the hands of really good musicians would be a reward in itself.

However, it does appear that this forum is almost "obsessed" with the importance of Feedback.  I can certainly understand why this is important for some people, but it's just not something that I would personally focus on.  I confess to being kind of selfish in this regard.  If I like a song I'm working on then I want it to flourish as I have imagined it to be.  Not as someone else thinks it should be.  In fact, if the song is changed around that much then why even bother calling it "mine"?

I may as well just bow out altogether and just say, "Fine, do it your way".

In fact this reminds me of the very famous song, "I did it my way".  ;D

Whether other people like my songs or not is of secondary importance to me actually.

Having said all of the above, it's always nice to hear that there are other people who do "get it" and appreciate "my style".   And those are the people I'm interested in collaborating with.  Why would I want to collaborate with people who want to do things totally different from me?  That wouldn't be any fun at all.

So my goal is to seek out other musicians who are the same "wavelength" that I'm on.  That's why I'm here.

The review process might ultimately be helpful in finding potential collaborators.  I'm definitely not going to want to collaborate with people who find a lot of problems with my songs.  Why would I want to do that?  Clearly we aren't on the same wavelength.  And that's fine.  In fact, that's very good to know before entering into a collaboration.

I would much rather collaborate with someone who actually enjoys the the song and might want to contribute to it as-is, rather than changing it all around.

So I suppose the feedback on songs can actually be helpful in finding like-minded collaborators.   :)

I think toward that end, I'll create a spreadsheet containing the names of people who review my songs with positive encouragement.   And that will be a list of potential collaborators.

The people who suggest that I should change my songs around dramatically will be struck off the list.  ;D

They clearly are not interested in "my style".

Why would I be interested in changing my style?

As an example, I know people who don't like Leonard Cohen.  Should he then change his style all around to suit the people who don't like his songs?

I think not.

Mystic Dreamer

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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2015, 06:41:05 AM »
I just made up a spreadsheet and included everyone who has reviewed the only two songs I have posted on this forum thus far.  It's a grand total of 18 different people thus far.  Many of them having reviewed both songs.

Owl have to be sure to give all those people reviews now.  I'm sure that I have already given some of them reviews.  I need to figure out how to find their songs now.

I've re-read all these reviews and thus far they are all quite positive and encouraging.  The main thing that most people have been complaining about is the mix and recording quality of my songs.  That's something that I'm well aware of already.  I know my recordings aren't up to the quality they could be.  I have severe tinnitus (ringing in the ears) from an explosion I was in many years ago.  So I can't really hear the qualify of my recordings very well.  I need to get someone in here who has a good set of ears and can help me set things up.  Otherwise, I'm going to continue to have bad qualify recordings I'm afraid. 

Boydie

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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2015, 08:57:28 AM »
Quote
However, it does appear that this forum is almost "obsessed" with the importance of Feedback.

That is what this place is all about  ???

It is a bit like saying McDonalds is almost obsessed with selling hamburgers and fries!

It is true that there are other "sub forums" where you can find collaborators, ask for advice on recording, lyrics, how to pitch songs etc. etc. BUT the "raison d'ĂȘtre" of this place is to post a song for critique, get feedback, choose what feedback to take on board and what to ignore, and then improve as a result


I would also say that just trying to find people on your own wavelength, or that like your stuff, is also going to unnecessarily restrict you

For me the point about collaborating is working with DIFFERENT people, with different ideas, to try and develop your songwriting and/or production skills

Who would have thought that one of the people that has helped me most with my "pop" writing and production was an acoustic folk singer/songwriter who uses all this flowery language in his lyrics (no offence Mr NIGHTHAWK ;))

I couldn't stand folk music when I joined this forum but I now regularly listen to JNs cd and the folk submissions in the forum

I didn't like "acoustic country" but I now love listening to MONTYDOG, SERIOUSFUN, and DOGMAX's stuff

I would have never dreamed I would have worked with someone on "fairytale rock" (and invent a new genre) but working with CACO has been wonderful and led on to loads of other project together

I could probably go on and list most people on this forum (certainly ALL of what I consider the regulars) and describe how each and every one of them has improved MY songwriting and production

Just thought of another few - I played a jazz sax solo for NEIL C on a track (using my guitar and softsynths) and I wrote a 1940s "Andrews Sisters" style Christmas song with CACO and BENJO

If someone had said to me 5 years ago I would have done all of this I would have thought they were mad - I wanted to be writing pop! - I think my original goal was to write SCLUB7 pop  ;D

I may actually sit down one day and list how the members have helped my development over the past few years - I learnt loads from ALAN STARKIE recently working on a pop track that ended up much better than if I had done it on my own

My point is that you will often learn much more (and develop your skills more) by working with and engaging with the people who ARE NOT on the same wavelength

I am not trying to "contradict you" all of the time - I am genuinely trying to help you understand what this place is all about because when it "clicks" with you I can guarantee you will "get it" and you will get much more from this place

There are plenty of other songwriter forums where you can post your songs and get some nice reviews, but IMHO there is nowhere like this place
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