[montydog]

Another rambling thing but a question that has worried me for a while. This songwriting is so weird. When I first started, I wrote what I wanted and if that meant 6 verses, no middle eight, no pre-chorus and really no knowledge of "the rules" then that's how it went. I now know a bit more about what the industry expects and I know that I was incredibly naive. The thing is, when I listen back to my first songs, the thing that impresses most is that they don't sound like everything else and some of them are really rather beautiful. If I'm supposed to be be learning this "craft", why is it that I don't think I can match some of my early efforts?

M

[diademgrove]

Hi Montydog,

it may just come down to the difference between work and pleasure. Your early songs were all pleasure whilst your newer songs feel like work. Learning the craft of song writing is hard work. Once you know its a craft, you have to learn the rules and apply them. You could look at it as being in school. Your first efforts were when the supply teacher is taking the class. Anything goes. Writing within the rules is when the strict maths teacher makes you work.

The art of song writing is to not lose the pleasure of writing six verses, all with a different number of lines, and working to conform to the industry standard.

Just my tuppence for what its worth.

Keith

[Jess]

I look at my work as a ladder. I started at the bottom rung with those completely beginner pieces that take up 3 sides of a4 (how I managed 8 verses and 5 different choruses in one song I'll never know...) and use the only few chords you can play. But then as I get older I climb that ladder and I build my knowledge of the industry and how to manipulate language and build chord progressions, I would definitely say that I have improved since the beginning- and I've had the joy of watching many others on the forum do the same.

But maybe the way you know you've got better is when you return to your first songs and are able to do something with them that you couldn't before. Whether that be replacing the cliché lyric in verse 3 or adding a riff to a basic melody. You should never box yourself in and restrict your creativity just because you don't think it complies with what is 'right'. There really are no loopholes in songwriting: you write a good song, you can get it produced, you write a bad song and no one has to ever hear it

[digger72]

Hi Montydog,

I totally get you. i was, maybe still am the same. I wasn't bothered about conforming to the usual structure of verses and pre-choruses and choruses, etc. I think this sometimes allowed more creativity. It also probably gave a little more pain to the listener's ears.
Now i try to strike that balance of being more listener friendly, but still leave that bit of me in there which sticks two fingers up at the "norm."
I guess it depends on your goals somewhat. I just like to write stuff that appeals to me. Hopefully someone else will find it interesting. Katja usually pulls me in to line if it is total rubbish. So, if it gets to the forum - blame her.

Digger

[EpiphoneEpiphany]

well I kind of cringe at almost everything I wrote in my first year, maybe because I was only seventeen, but I was basically satisfied by writing a line that rhymes with another line and didn't think about the quality of the line itself, which I do now

think I always wrote in a normal/standard structure though

[stavcoby]

I wrote my first songs when i was about 14.  I couldn't play an instrument, but i used to have a whole concert in my head.  Looking back over those old lyrics of mine, I seemed to be very carefree with words, created some decent metaphors without actually knowing it haha.  Emotions where more of a rollercoaster back then.

[seriousfun]

I have deffinately improved, but most of this improvement is due to better music, arrangement and production. Obviously a small amount is now due to lyric but i have noticed that each time i go back to the archives to rework an old song the lyric doesnt get changed much but the musi is altered a lot. Keys, to better match my vocal, structure to make it more accesible and get the hook in earlier and shorten the song.

But one thing i have noticed, is that i write, or kkep might be a better idea, less crap. When i first started out some of ideas, both lyrical and musical were not great but i always took them thru to completion. Now i am much more discerning so i am getting more consistent results.

[Paulski]

Don't know if I'm getting any better, but I am getting braver.

I get a little braver every time
I put my reputation on the line
I think I'm gonna waver but I do just fine
And I get a little braver every time!